Ejecting on Runway

[Glide]

Found out on my maiden flight that without brakes the jet will NOT stop, AND if you eject while cruising down the runway, you will land on your feet. :matrix: Any landing is a good landing...

[Florence201]

Viper ejection seat should be a zero/zero seat. So height and speed zero and it will fire.

 

And aero braking is only done to 100kts. Wheel brakes are needed after that

[Glide]

Silly me not setting up my controls prior to wheels up. It was fun though.

[SpaceMonkey037]

Viper ejection seat should be a zero/zero seat. So height and speed zero and it will fire.

 

And aero braking is only done to 100kts. Wheel brakes are needed after that

 

Not entirely correct, aerobraking is often done preformed under 100 knots. It all depends on the length of the runway and the weather conditions as the wheel brakes are more efficient than aerobraking at lower speeds. For this reason, aerobraking can be effective at speeds under 100 knots and should be performed until the nose falls down on itself if the runway length is sufficient. Do only lower the nose at 100 knots if wheel braking is necessary right as the nose wheel touches the ground, if you don't need wheel brakes there really is no reason to stop aerobraking. Hot brakes are also something to take into consideration for braking. With a weight much over 7000 pounds you will most likely get hot brakes if using the wheel brakes from a speed of 80 knots or higher. In general it is better to change brakes than to change the entire plane, so don't save the brakes, just don't use them if not necessary.

 

[Bouli306]

On 11/27/2020 at 8:17 AM, SpaceMonkey037 said:

 

Not entirely correct, aerobraking is often done preformed under 100 knots. It all depends on the length of the runway and the weather conditions as the wheel brakes are more efficient than aerobraking at lower speeds. For this reason, aerobraking can be effective at speeds under 100 knots and should be performed until the nose falls down on itself if the runway length is sufficient. Do only lower the nose at 100 knots if wheel braking is necessary right as the nose wheel touches the ground, if you don't need wheel brakes there really is no reason to stop aerobraking. Hot brakes are also something to take into consideration for braking. With a weight much over 7000 pounds you will most likely get hot brakes if using the wheel brakes from a speed of 80 knots or higher. In general it is better to change brakes than to change the entire plane, so don't save the brakes, just don't use them if not necessary.

 

Any aerobraking below 100kts will adversely affect landing rollout. So while it looks cool it does not make sense.

[Dragon1-1]

It very much does when you take into account the fact the Viper usually doesn't need the whole runway to come to a stop. It's better to save the brakes some wear and yourself some trouble, especially if you need to taxi almost to the end of the runway to find an exit anyway. A longer rollout will actually get you there faster, which is better than stopping in the middle and then slowly rolling down the rest of it.

[SpaceMonkey037]

16 hours ago, Bouli306 said:

Any aerobraking below 100kts will adversely affect landing rollout. So while it looks cool it does not make sense.

How does that make any sense? Yes, aerobraking under 100 knots isn't as effective as wheel braking, but if you have a long runway where wheel braking isn't needed at 100 knots to be able to stop it won't be any downside to continuing the aerobrake until your nose falls down or when you actually need wheel brakes to stop. Aerobraking is more efficient at braking than just rolling, so saying that aerobaking under 100 knots is only done because it looks fancy isn't entirely true.

[G.J.S]

Spacemonkey037, - aerobraking until the nose falls itself is not advised as that means it is falling uncontrolled. Aerobraking should be done to the point where the pilot lowers the nose under control, not where it drops of its own accord.

Aerobraking is a controlled manoeuvre, not one that relies on lack of control response to end it.

[SpaceMonkey037]

1 hour ago, garyscott said:

Spacemonkey037, - aerobraking until the nose falls itself is not advised as that means it is falling uncontrolled. Aerobraking should be done to the point where the pilot lowers the nose under control, not where it drops of its own accord.

Aerobraking is a controlled manoeuvre, not one that relies on lack of control response to end it.

No, if you just let the nose fall down on itself isn't wrong at all. Yes, you don't need to and yes, it's not that effective at braking, but it's more effective than nothing and the actual nose falling part is also totally fine. 

[Bouli306]

5 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It very much does when you take into account the fact the Viper usually doesn't need the whole runway to come to a stop. It's better to save the brakes some wear and yourself some trouble, especially if you need to taxi almost to the end of the runway to find an exit anyway. A longer rollout will actually get you there faster, which is better than stopping in the middle and then slowly rolling down the rest of it.

But than you are throwing away safety because of delayed braking just by trying to 'safe' the brakes. If you are talking about taxi speed i am with you if you say keep the nose up below 100kts i do not agree and it is not according -1.

[G.J.S]

1 hour ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

No, if you just let the nose fall down on itself isn't wrong at all. Yes, you don't need to and yes, it's not that effective at braking, but it's more effective than nothing and the actual nose falling part is also totally fine. 

If it falls “down on itself” then it is not under pilot control - that is what I was alluding to. I was always under the impression the PIC should be in control at all times.
”more effective than nothing and the actual nose falling part is also totally fine” - Maybe, ‘slightly’, but having the nose down and under controlled braking will always be more effective and conducive to proper airmanship, than relying on gravity overcoming variable wind resistance. 

[Dragon1-1]

You can just put it all the way down the moment you feel the force required to keep it up start increasing. Then you can have full control over how it drops, while exploiting the aerobraking to its fullest. That's the way I do it, I start derotating the jet not depending on speed, but when I feel it no longer wants to stay up, and I try to pace it so that the nosewheel hits the ground when the tailplane is fully deflected, which I then hold in that position until I hit the brakes, to provide a little more air resistance on the rollout.

 

There are no major safety concerns associated with just rolling down the runway, which, if you've been cleared to land on it, should be unobstructed. In fact, the safest thing you can do is vacate it as quickly as possible, which may involve extending your rollout to get to an exit more quickly. Generally, you should apply full brakes so that when you let go of them, you're at taxi speed, and at the runway exit, ready to make the turn onto the taxiway.

[SpaceMonkey037]

16 hours ago, garyscott said:

If it falls “down on itself” then it is not under pilot control - that is what I was alluding to. I was always under the impression the PIC should be in control at all times.
”more effective than nothing and the actual nose falling part is also totally fine” - Maybe, ‘slightly’, but having the nose down and under controlled braking will always be more effective and conducive to proper airmanship, than relying on gravity overcoming variable wind resistance. 

Aerobrake however you want, but just know that there is nothing incorrect about letting the nose fall down on it's own. It doesn't decrease the amonut of control in any way what so ever. You honestly can't mess up aerobraking, i'd need to be doing something very wrong in that case.

[G.J.S]

6 hours ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

Aerobrake however you want, but just know that there is nothing incorrect about letting the nose fall down on it's own. It doesn't decrease the amonut of control in any way what so ever. You honestly can't mess up aerobraking, i'd need to be doing something very wrong in that case.

All those years I was lied to lol . . . . 

[Glide]

The only way to mess up aerobraking is to lean too far back and scrape the paint.  Not like I've ever done that...

[Frederf]

19 hours ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

Aerobrake however you want, but just know that there is nothing incorrect about letting the nose fall down on it's own. It doesn't decrease the amonut of control in any way what so ever. You honestly can't mess up aerobraking, i'd need to be doing something very wrong in that case.

Nice way to make the airplane maintainer upset. Nose gear isn't cheap. A few thousand pounds of jet slamming down on that little toothpick is the reason why not. Too much pitch is bad but a common mistake is not enough. Aero braking at less than green-donut indexer is practically worthless.