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Multiple Radar/AWG-9/Phoenix Issues since patch 2.5.6.52437


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Please check radar performance now after the MLC fix. During testing I had no issues with it anymore. Feedback will be greatly appreciated, thanks!

Seems fine at the moment, in Single Player: I fired 10 Phoenixes tonight, at fighter sized targets at ranges between 45 and 55 nm, and 7 of them hit their target (the others were notched: I followed up on them in the F10 map and didn't see any of the weird Phoenix behaviour that I spotted earlier). :thumbup:

 

Will keep looking in the next few days, to make sure Jester behaves :)

 

Thanks, Heatblur!

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I just had Jester switch to RWS with a Phoenix in the air :(

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I just had Jester switch to RWS with a Phoenix in the air :(

 

 

Same. And he refuses to put it back into TWS for what seems like an eternity, but is probably 2 minutes (maybe related to the track memory?)

 

Jester also is switching to pulse mode while STT locked with a missile in the air even when that option is turned off in the settings, or at least calling out that he is...

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I just did the Syria BVR instant action mission. I waited until both MiGs were within 35 nm, then I launched 2 Phoenixes in TWS. As soon as the missiles came off the rails, 2 ghost contacts were created (1 "flying" to the West 90 degrees away from the MiGs, and the other "flying" in the complete opposite direction; a quick check at the F10 map confirmed both MiGs were still nose hot, and the Phoenixes were off chasing mosquitos or something...

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Im finding it wants to hold locks a lot better in TWS. I actually scored my first phoenix kill using TWS in multiplayer the other day, absolutely unheard of up till now. OK, so it was one kill out of 3, but there was a close pass on another and the proximity fuse didnt goe off. Which suggest that there is a DCS rather than F14 problem there somewhere.

 

 

Its improved, keep doing what you are doing fellas.

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Still borked, I'm afraid.

 

It definitely seems more rare. It took several sessions before the gremlins appeared, whereas before I could reliably count on seeing them eventually.

 

But still, they are still there. :(

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I just did the Syria BVR instant action mission. I waited until both MiGs were within 35 nm, then I launched 2 Phoenixes in TWS. As soon as the missiles came off the rails, 2 ghost contacts were created (1 "flying" to the West 90 degrees away from the MiGs, and the other "flying" in the complete opposite direction; a quick check at the F10 map confirmed both MiGs were still nose hot, and the Phoenixes were off chasing mosquitos or something...

Do you have a track file of this? Sounds like a quick engagement, so I would love to take a look at what the radar is doing in detail.

When it happens to me I'm usually in the middle of a huge ~50 player multiplayer mission, making the track file rather useless :(

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Do you have a track file of this?

 

Sadly not: I disabled track writing in the autoexec.cfg, and haven't been able to reproduce it in that same mission.

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I just did the Syria BVR instant action mission. I waited until both MiGs were within 35 nm, then I launched 2 Phoenixes in TWS. As soon as the missiles came off the rails, 2 ghost contacts were created (1 "flying" to the West 90 degrees away from the MiGs, and the other "flying" in the complete opposite direction; a quick check at the F10 map confirmed both MiGs were still nose hot, and the Phoenixes were off chasing mosquitos or something...

 

i had very similer on syria last night. disconnect from awacs next time it happens. we think its a datalink issue

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i had very similer on syria last night. disconnect from awacs next time it happens. we think its a datalink issue

 

Thanks! I'll try that :thumbup:

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I haven't tried it against multiple bandits but I did try the instant action mission against a pair of Fulcrums. Did a TWS lock at 45nm on one and the AIM-54 tracked the whole way.

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How are you guys doing with TWS tracks/shots? Especially against multiple contacts? My limited trials are too erratic to make a conclusion. Generally though, a keep getting ghost contacts very often, no matter how look-up i am. It's just that the missile hits anyways at times.

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Worked for me two nights ago on the 107th Through The Inferno Syria server. While there was ghosting for a bit, I reviewed the TACVIEW, and there were points when the bandits were flying circular patterns, or maneuvering relative to other blue assets, so the ghosting wasn't likely caused by a bug for me, but rather because of the dynamic way in which the targets were flying.

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How are you guys doing with TWS tracks/shots? Especially against multiple contacts? My limited trials are too erratic to make a conclusion. Generally though, a keep getting ghost contacts very often, no matter how look-up i am. It's just that the missile hits anyways at times.

Same, I still get the ghost contacts I described here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4444501&postcount=5

The Phoenix does indeed continue to track to the correct target anyways, instead of the ghost target.

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Do you have a track file of this? Sounds like a quick engagement, so I would love to take a look at what the radar is doing in detail.

When it happens to me I'm usually in the middle of a huge ~50 player multiplayer mission, making the track file rather useless :(

 

This is a known issue but they say they are having issues replicating it. If you do more testing try to stream/record it, and turn your track files on..they need more data.

 

I've got a thread in the bugs section, but the HB guys are responding to this one. Either works

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In my opinion the main problems is the inability of the radar to keep the correlation of the track from the contacts detected. Other problems sometimes happens, but i fly mostrly SP and honestly i experienced only once Jester messing up with the modes and bashing buttons.

 

The inability of keeping tracks consistency and spawn ghost contacts is very limiting for the SA and the ability to achieve multiple shots. I'm also experiencing this on a regular basis (happens almost always), so i can't understand how much this is intended to simulate the limitations of the AWG-9, how much is difficult to reproduce this problem, how much is difficult to fix it.

 

I had to take a break from the 'Cat as i was somewhat tired of the gremlins in the radar that more or less appeared after the TWS-A introduction, but tonight i tried a small mission, a training scenario for a F-14 against two MiG-29S merging at around 35 miles, angels 15-20. There are no AWACS or other scripts in this mission, it's just dead simple (i just have some custom skins, no other mods).

 

Out of 5 tries, i had ghost tracks issues in 100% of times: as soon as the bandits start maneuvering (usually when the Phoenix goes pitbull - the AI never really notches, most of the times cranks for about 45° going down a little and popping some chaffs) one (or more) appears even if i'm well below them to avoid looking in ground clutter.

 

Jester does a good job in this simple scenario but it's just the radar that can't keep up.

 

I'm attaching the mission and the tracks, (but i'm afraid they're all corrupted), i will try to record some video if this helps.

 

It's sad that the radar is in this poor state, the 'Cat is in my opinion by far the best module, i want to get back enjoyng it 100%. :)

BVR F-14B vs MiG-29 (1 on 2).miz

Tracks.zip

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Odd. I took the Cat out for 2 separate sorties on a public multiplayer server over the weekend and scored a record for me of 8-for-8 with the Phoenix, 7 of which were under TWS. Jester didn't drop once, even after I had asked for an elevation-at-range adjustment for one engagement.

 

In my experience the AWG-9 is much happier when there is a good amount of air between the targets and the ground. I only ever get ghosting when trying to track low flying contacts with hilly/mountainous terrain in the radar picture.

 

This aligns with some crew reports that I have seen; the AWG-9, whilst look-down-shoot-down is a first gen radar of that type, and is far happier discriminating targets against sea/flat terrain and tomcat crews had to account for this.

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Odd. I took the Cat out for 2 separate sorties on a public multiplayer server over the weekend and scored a record for me of 8-for-8 with the Phoenix, 7 of which were under TWS. Jester didn't drop once, even after I had asked for an elevation-at-range adjustment for one engagement.

 

In my experience the AWG-9 is much happier when there is a good amount of air between the targets and the ground. I only ever get ghosting when trying to track low flying contacts with hilly/mountainous terrain in the radar picture.

 

This aligns with some crew reports that I have seen; the AWG-9, whilst look-down-shoot-down is a first gen radar of that type, and is far happier discriminating targets against sea/flat terrain and tomcat crews had to account for this.

 

I don't know how much this is intentional, i would like to hear from HB about this.

 

Anyway, I tend to prefer test in SP to let out the ping/lag variable from the environment, of course that's not negligible for who plays mainly online, but at least is more easily reproducible.

 

As i said i was not doing any look down/shoot down, just to be in the best possible scenario and i didn't notice any issue with Jester, just a very confused radar picture. Also, taking the scoring of the missile is secondary, sometimes ARH missiles find their target even if the lock is broken before going pitbull, sometimes they're just spoofed by maneuvering, ecm, chaff, etc.

 

The point is that the your SA will be degraded, with so many ghost contacts Jester perform worse (more time to do IFF) and if you need to fire again at a target you're risking to fire on a ghost contact that is going to be dropped shortly after, wasting a round.

 

Just to add a detail that i omitted in the previous post: on one occasion i had a single contact detected, the one for the closest bandit. As soon as the second one was picked up a few miles behind, the first contact went crazy, it looked like this:

  • First contact detected, tracked and IFFed
  • Second contact detected, the first track gets confused by it and mixes up the two contacts, showing the track now to be cold with high negative closure rate (as if it was interpolating the speed and position of the two contacts)
  • The "mixed" track is considered lost, as the radar doesn't find anything where the track is supposed to be
  • Two new tracks are created after the effective contacts of the bandits in front of me

 

Please note the difference between contact (echo on the radar display) and track (marker on TID), i've not been too much into the RIO seat, but that's how it should work, contacts should be promoted to track after being picked up more than once.

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I've been seeing erratic radar and missile behaviour for the past two months or so. I only play online with Jester and a human pilot and the issues I've been seeing are mostly;

 

  1. Contacts in TWS dropping and reappearing the moment I fire at them, wasting the Phoenix immediately.
  2. Contacts constantly appearing and disappearing on TWS screen, even though there's no reason for them to do it. I think if the server is slightly unstable and there's warping(happens on bigs servers), it confuses the radar somehow.
  3. Phoenixes seem to have trouble tracking targets, this might be linked to the radar issues.

It just feels like at module launch date Phoenix/AWG9 was a much potent platform, while right now it's crippled by these issues.

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In addition to what people I saying here I've also noted that since these issues started PAL mode has also been A LOT slower to pick up targets and loses them a lot too in MP

.

 

Edit: Forget I spoke, brain fade combined with just getting back into the aircraft in the last few weeks.


Edited by VampireNZ

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