announced DCS MiG-29A

[Seaeagle]

9 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

 

Perhaps Air Force Monthly, not sure as it was a while back.

Ok - perhaps worth asking on the Russian section if anyone knows the current status of -SMTs in Russian service. But this source...

9 minutes ago, Dudikoff said:

 

There is a mention of that in this article:

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33666/mig-29-fighters-were-at-russias-air-base-in-syria-just-before-showing-up-in-libya

...no thanks :D

[TotenDead]

15 часов назад, Seaeagle сказал:

Ok - perhaps worth asking on the Russian section if anyone knows the current status of -SMTs in Russian service. But this source...

...no thanks

Скрытый текст

 

The aircraft are relatively new, all are in service.

 

Upd. Nope xd. Sorry for misinforming you. Only a few Algerian planes are in service, most are stored (на хранении), some were updated to 29SMT2 standart.

 

Here's the link

http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/7531-reestr-mig-29-a/

Edited March 3, 2021 by TotenDead

[Seaeagle]

8 hours ago, TotenDead said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The aircraft are relatively new, all are in service.

 

Upd. Nope xd. Sorry for misinforming you. Only a few Algerian planes are in service, most are stored (на хранении), some were updated to 29SMT2 standart.

 

Here's the link

http://forums.airforce.ru/matchast/7531-reestr-mig-29-a/

 

Thank you very much TotenDead :) . Wow how cool is that - a complete register of all MiG-29s produced!

[F-2]

So here is something you guys might be interested in for a modern Mig-29. In 2002 a Mig-29m was offered up for sale, year was listed as 1992, avionics seem fairly up to date. I don’t know if the sale ever went through but if a private M exists it should be fairly easy for a third party to make a module.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20021114221133/http://www.avitop.com/aircraft/aircraft.asp?id=355

 

[draconus]

On 2/18/2021 at 7:54 PM, Kev2go said:

and that is its the tomcats greatest weak point, especially as it has to be programmed manually ( no data cartridge) , and once  you get too much drift cat cant update INS like you could in other teen fighters in a pre GPS era by using A/G radar to update the INS.

1. While Tomcat's 3 waypoints are really just named WPT1-3 there is actually more to that. There are additional 5 Navigation Target Points, a Home Base and another 5 (a bit limited) that can be received by DL from the carrier during INS allignment.

2. Tomcat can be nav fixed by radar: http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#radar-update

[Gierasimov]

 

I can spend my isolation there on this very tower.

[Northstar98]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

1. While Tomcat's 3 waypoints are really just named WPT1-3 there is actually more to that. There are additional 5 Navigation Target Points, a Home Base and another 5 (a bit limited) that can be received by DL from the carrier during INS allignment.

2. Tomcat can be nav fixed by radar: http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#radar-update

 

Plus, as a naval aircraft, primarily designed for fleet defence, the number of waypoints it has available is absolutely fine.

 

The MiG-29 is fairly short-ranged anyway, so IMO it doesn't really need the same navigation capability as we see with more advanced aircraft (even like the Mirage 2000) - especially given that it has RSBN and ARK, and is probably being directed by somebody anyway (even though we don't have that capability or really the assets to do that).

 

3 hours ago, Gierasimov said:

 

I can spend my isolation there on this very tower.

 

Yes please!

Edited March 15, 2021 by Northstar98

[Seaeagle]

On 3/14/2021 at 5:55 AM, F-2 said:

So here is something you guys might be interested in for a modern Mig-29. In 2002 a Mig-29m was offered up for sale,

Pretty sure that was a hoax..

Quote

year was listed as 1992,

There were no MiG-29M with a 1992 production date - the six test aircraft(9.15) were built between 1986 and 1991. 

Quote

avionics seem fairly up to date.

Heh yeah, but these aircraft are still considered "secret", so I seriously doubt that MIG would sell one with the complete system's complex in place back then.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Seaeagle

[F-2]

22 minutes ago, Seaeagle said:

Pretty sure that was a hoax..

There were no MiG-29M with a 1992 production date - the six test aircraft(9.15) were built between 1986 and 1991. 

Heh yeah, but these aircraft are still considered "secret", so I seriously doubt that MIG would sell one with the complete system's complex in place back then.

 

 

Ah too bad! I’ve always been Curious how the M preforms relative to the original.

[Seaeagle]

2 hours ago, F-2 said:

Ah too bad! I’ve always been Curious how the M preforms relative to the original.

You can find some pretty good accounts for the MiG-29M development history with descriptions of its design and construction and also some indications about its handling characteristics compared to the "baseline" version - not enough for a PFM of course, but you get some ideas about the level of difference.

[SharkWizard]

MiG-29M 9.15 is such a beauty. Would be so nice if we had a ff (or even fc3) model of the plane in DCS. There is no chance of course.

With a quadruplex analog fbw pitch control channel with no mechanical backups and triplex FBW roll and yaw control channels with mechanical backup it certainly would be a very different beast to fly compared to the 9.12 and 9.13 we got already. Unstable in pitch control like the Flanker and improved fuel economy to boost. 

Apparently it had a tv camera inside its IRST as well and could guide missiles to 4 targets at once. I'm guessing similarly how the 9.13S can launch R-77s at 2 targets in the special mode, feel free to correct me.

Its trump card though must have been the advanced air to ground munitions. I read once a bomber squadron got issued MiG-29As expecting theyd get the M as soon as it got into production. Of course they never got them (same as DCS pilots).

 

 

[bies]

11 hours ago, SharkWizard said:

Would be so nice if we had a ff (or even fc3) model of the plane in DCS. There is no chance of course.

 

It was just a 1990s prototype though. Six prototype planes, each different than the others, with different standard, all classified. We could ask for idk Su-47, YF-23 as well.

[F-2]

2 hours ago, bies said:

 

It was just a 1990s prototype though. Six prototype planes, each different than the others, with different standard, all classified. We could ask for idk Su-47, YF-23 as well.

Is the later M the same airframe with improved avionics or a different airframe?

[Northstar98]

3 hours ago, bies said:

 

It was just a 1990s prototype though. Six prototype planes, each different than the others, with different standard, all classified. We could ask for idk Su-47, YF-23 as well.

 

I mean, the Ka-50 is also basically a prototype. Though personally, I'm okay with prototypes if they're representative of the real thing (in terms of capabilities etc).

 

Obviously though, I'd put production units above prototypes any day of the week, and if they're still classified and subject to protection (which the MiG-29M is) it's a no-go anyway.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Northstar98

[Dudikoff]

47 minutes ago, F-2 said:

Is the later M the same airframe with improved avionics or a different airframe?

 

It's a different airframe, the most obvious difference is that it uses a new unified canopy (same canopy is used for the single seater and the dual seater).

 

Looks rather ungainly with it IMHO, so I much prefer the original M/K designs. They were probably better built and tested as well, compared to this embarrassment that the new K seems to be.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Dudikoff

[F-2]

The Indian navy is looking for a mig-29k replacement. In a few years went it’s off the front line maybe that will be viable.

[Seaeagle]

16 hours ago, SharkWizard said:

MiG-29M 9.15 is such a beauty. Would be so nice if we had a ff (or even fc3) model of the plane in DCS. There is no chance of course.

With a quadruplex analog fbw pitch control channel with no mechanical backups and triplex FBW roll and yaw control channels with mechanical backup it certainly would be a very different beast to fly compared to the 9.12 and 9.13 we got already.

Indeed, but there is much more to it - many airframe refinements, new wings(improved airfoil), sharp lerxes, different elevators, etc.

Quote

Unstable in pitch control like the Flanker and improved fuel economy to boost. 

Yes RD-33K engines with digital control system, more power(8800 kgf vs 8300 of baseline RD-33), a lower specific fuel consumption and more responsive to throttle input etc. Much bigger internal fuel capacity - in part due to the redesigned FOD protection system.

Quote

Apparently it had a tv camera inside its IRST as well..

Yes OLS-M with deep cooled IR sensor, TV camera and new laser rangefinder/designator(with twice the range of the original) - the TV camera could be used for air-to-air as well as air-to-ground targets.

Quote

..and could guide missiles to 4 targets at once.

Well IIRC the radar(original N010 "Zhuk") could prioritise four targets for engagement, but only engage 2 at a time - the later upgraded Zhuk-M can engage all four simultaneously.

Quote

 I'm guessing similarly how the 9.13S can launch R-77s at 2 targets in the special mode, feel free to correct me.

No the R-77 was fully integrated into the N010 radar as its primary air-to-air BVR weapon, while the 9.13S had a modified version(N019M) of the original N019 radar, for which the R-77 was backfitted via an extra add-on "TWS-2" mode for the purpose.

 

Quote

Its trump card though must have been the advanced air to ground munitions.

There were so many trump cards, that its hard to single out a particular one - aside from the wide range of A2G armament,  increased payload capacity(up to 4500 kg of external ordinance) on 9 stations(compared to 7 on the baseline MiG-29) and operational range, it had much more modern radar with air-to-surface modes, RWS system with support for ARMs, more modern navigation system(not as sophisticated as on the K though), and modern datalink system etc etc.

 

So yeah - would be really cool......but the MiG-29K would be better yet though .

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Seaeagle

[Seaeagle]

4 hours ago, bies said:

 

It was just a 1990s prototype though. Six prototype planes, each different than the others, with different standard, all classified.

Well technically only the first one(no 151) was a prototype, while the remaining five were test aircraft and the standard was the same - the last one(no. 156) had a different cockpit layout though.

4 hours ago, bies said:

We could ask for idk Su-47, YF-23 as well.

No its not the same thing - the MiG-29M and K went through state acceptance trials and were actually ordered for production, but were cancelled due to the break-up of the Soviet Union and lack of funds in the aftermath. The Su-47, on the other hand, was an experimental aircraft for testing forward sweapt wing design - i.e. similar in nature to the US X-planes.

[jojyrocks]

4 hours ago, F-2 said:

The Indian navy is looking for a mig-29k replacement. In a few years went it’s off the front line maybe that will be viable.

 

 

Seeing the LARGE flaps of the Mig 35 that looks oddly similar to Mig 29K...I can see the Mig 35 is also being worked on as an alternative to an upgraded Mig 35 modded to carrier ops. 

 

Since the Indian Navy at present only has Ski jump carriers. They'd stick with the Russians. Mig 29K is going to stay with the Indian Navy for a loooong time. They are not known for fast replacements. They still use Mig 21 and Jaguars. They take a long time to replace and update their inventory.

 

It is also noted that they are also trying to find a home grown solution born out of their Tejas series experience, but that also seems to be cancelled for Navy and on low rate production for IAF. There is no video evidence of Rafale or the Rhino doing Ski Jump take off. Also finally, their plans for a CATOBAR carrier is shelved for now.

 

The thing is Tejas was a learning experience for them, and now they are moving towards Tejas MK2 (MWF) with option to cancel production of Mk1 series halfway depending on progress of MWF. Rest depends on how the foreign lobbys handle their latest MMRCA 2 venture and the economy to handle the purchase.

[F-2]

Just now, jojyrocks said:

 

 

Seeing the LARGE flaps of the Mig 35 that looks oddly similar to Mig 29K...I can see the Mig 35 is also being worked on as an alternative to an upgraded Mig 35 modded to carrier ops. 

 

Since the Indian Navy at present only has Ski jump carriers. They'd stick with the Russians. Mig 29K is going to stay with the Indian Navy for a loooong time. They are not known for fast replacements. They still use Mig 21 and Jaguars. They take a long time to replace and update their inventory.

 

It is also noted that they are also trying to find a home grown solution born out of their Tejas series experience, but that also seems to be cancelled for Navy and on low rate production for IAF. There is no video evidence of Rafale or the Rhino doing Ski Jump take off. Also finally, their plans for a CATOBAR carrier is shelved for now.

 

The thing is Tejas was a learning experience for them, and now they are moving towards Tejas MK2 (MWF) with option to cancel production of Mk1 series halfway depending on progress of MWF. Rest depends on how the foreign lobbys handle their latest MMRCA 2 venture and the economy to handle the purchase.

Boeing claims that the super hornet can be adapted to a ski jump and and Indian delegation was going to evaluate it before COVID.

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38324/watch-a-super-hornet-launch-off-of-a-ski-jump-during-testing-aimed-at-the-indian-navy

 

[jojyrocks]

51 minutes ago, F-2 said:

Boeing claims that the super hornet can be adapted to a ski jump and and Indian delegation was going to evaluate it before COVID.

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38324/watch-a-super-hornet-launch-off-of-a-ski-jump-during-testing-aimed-at-the-indian-navy

 

 

 

Just marketing terms at present. So until we see it actually doing a ski Jump. It is all just marketing. Even Rafale is said to be able to do it...as Dassault had been saying. But so far, no vids or pics of them ever doing a ski jump. So, ultimately, until that happens. India is stuck with the Mig series. Russia knows it too...

 

If SH or the Rafale ever did a Ski jump from these Ski jump carriers, then they'll definitely show it to media. This will be an achievement as well.

 

That large drooping flaps on the Mig 35 shows it had been designed with carrier ops in mind as well. Also Russians do not have a carrier anymore, till 2022.

[F-2]

24 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

Just marketing terms at present. So until we see it actually doing a ski Jump. It is all just marketing. Even Rafale is said to be able to do it...as Dassault had been saying. But so far, no vids or pics of them ever doing a ski jump. So, ultimately, until that happens. India is stuck with the Mig series. Russia knows it too...

 

If SH or the Rafale ever did a Ski jump from these Ski jump carriers, then they'll definitely show it to media. This will be an achievement as well.

 

That large drooping flaps on the Mig 35 shows it had been designed with carrier ops in mind as well. Also Russians do not have a carrier anymore, till 2022.

I’m not sure you read my link.

 

 

 

 

 

To my knowledge what ever the mig seems capable of their has been no test of it on a ski jump or reinforcement for carrier ops, unless Russia plans to foot the bill that’s something India is going to have to finance. At least according to the video the Super hornet can be made compatible with Indian carriers with models flying today. Given the Mig-29k’s frankly awful attrition Rate and small number of type, India may need a replacement sooner rather then later.

[SharkWizard]

5 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

 

So yeah - would be really cool......but the MiG-29K would be better yet though .

 

 

Completely agree even if its slightly slower, heavier and less maneuverable. Best looking plane and also my wallpaper

[TotenDead]

8 часов назад, F-2 сказал:

 

 

 

 

Какой интересный клевок носом. С полной нагрузкой будет целовать воду? Тем более с его то тяговооруженностью

8 часов назад, F-2 сказал:

 

To my knowledge what ever the mig seems capable of their has been no test of it on a ski jump or reinforcement for carrier ops, unless Russia plans to foot the bill that’s something India is going to have to finance.

 

 

Нигде и никогда наземных испытаний по взлету с трамплина не проходило, 100%. Видео, правда, со второго комплекса подготовки палубных летчиков, первый в Крыму, можно было бы поискать старые видео, но не хочется.

 

8 часов назад, F-2 сказал:

At least according to the video the Super hornet can be made compatible with Indian carriers with models flying today.

Он может взлететь с неизвестной взлетной массой. И неизвестными последствиями для конструкции, особенно - носовой стойки шасси. В США они традиционно хлипкие

8 часов назад, F-2 сказал:

Given the Mig-29k’s frankly awful attrition Rate

Wut

8 часов назад, F-2 сказал:

and small number of type

А сколько нужно было делать 29К для двух авианосцев? Пятикратный запас по самолетам?

[jojyrocks]

9 hours ago, F-2 said:

I’m not sure you read my link.

 

 

 

 

 

To my knowledge what ever the mig seems capable of their has been no test of it on a ski jump or reinforcement for carrier ops, unless Russia plans to foot the bill that’s something India is going to have to finance. At least according to the video the Super hornet can be made compatible with Indian carriers with models flying today. Given the Mig-29k’s frankly awful attrition Rate and small number of type, India may need a replacement sooner rather then later.

 

 

Yeah, nice vid!...but, they need to show that in India's carrier, live tests being conducted on a moving carrier. More videos of it. Also India has issues with logistics, and they at present has too many weapons, planes of different nations. It is going to tank their economy. If they buy the SH, they need to buy extra on their specific weapons as well. 

 

The reason why India sticks to Mig 29K is one, the logistics they have with the IAF Mig 29s and the rest of all Russian jets and Helo weapons inventory...they all overhaul at the HAL overhaul centre, both Indian Navy and IAF. Rafale got some logistic ease with their Mirage 2000 series on loadout to some degree.

 

The poor crashes are due to overhauling issues and the lack of QC there. Their problem, and some are known due to corruption cases. India ranks number 1 as foreign user in crashes of Russian jets. Other Russian inventory users nations do not have the number of such crashes like India does. During some of US sanctions, at one point, India had plenty of crashes with their Sea harriers. They simply could not improvise like the Iranians does with their F-14 and F-4.

 

The problem is the overhauling and some hidden corruptions in getting spares.

 

Ultimately, the cheapest option all around is the Mig 29 series with their current economy hurdle along with the recently updated Mig 29SMT of IAF. The logistics is the thing here. 

 

SH is good, but, they'd need to buy extra on US specific weapons and several other updations on setting it up. It is going to cost more for them, a whole lot. But we'll see, rest depends on how strongly the lobby works. India is kinda easy to lobby. Out of the US jets, SH is the cheapest.

 

So, Mig 29K isnt going to get retired anytime soon. So no module on that unless FC3....which won't happen.

Edited March 17, 2021 by jojyrocks