announced DCS MiG-29A

[Harlikwin]

Harlikwin that's not GCI, that's just a slightly better Awacs BRA call.

 

Yup you're right, but it would a world better than what we have now.

 

I agree a calculated/guided intercept to put you in an advantageous position would be ideal. But that would mean AI, alot of it, and I don't see it happening. So I'd be happy with some sort of updated system for the awacs for online use for when you don't have a human gci.

[Harlikwin]

Sounds like the MiG-29 and other Soviet fighters really have the equivalent of a 'RIO'. Just ground based one with a huge ground based radar to search with.

 

ED now just needs to develop the Jesterovitch

 

Yeah that was the soviet philosophy on it. Instead of having a pile of complicated/expensive/heavy systems on the actual plane, they offloaded that, plus the workload onto the ground control. I'd argue it would have worked fairly well assuming the ground guys were up to it (as we have learned, the soviet system was one thing in theory, and another in practice). But also they were strategically vulnerable as the whole thing was somewhat centralized and could be attacked/destroyed which would greatly diminish the effectiveness of their air assets.

[Jester986]

 

But also they were strategically vulnerable as the whole thing was somewhat centralized and could be attacked/destroyed which would greatly diminish the effectiveness of their air assets.

Now that part being modelled would be really interesting.

 

[Dragon1-1]

Actually, they weren't vulnerable at all. GCI was set up not unlike the British Dowding System during WWII. The command centers would be nowhere near the radars, and while the radars themselves could be blinded, it could be quite a task because of overlapping coverage areas. I don't know where the actual controllers would sit, but given that it was a system that was supposed to be used during a nuclear war, I presume they'd be in some kind of bunker capable of taking a few hits.

 

If it got nuked, fighters would likely suffer, but I think the Soviets had plans to ensure the system wasn't down completely. I'm no expert on PVO doctrine, but the Soviet radar network was quite robust.

[SovietAce]

So Its confirmed. MiG-29A(9-12) will came after Black Shark 3. https://stormbirds.blog/2020/12/18/eagle-dynamics-confirms-mig-29-9-12-development/

[norbot]

11 minutes ago, SovietAce said:

So Its confirmed. MiG-29A(9-12) will came after Black Shark 3. https://stormbirds.blog/2020/12/18/eagle-dynamics-confirms-mig-29-9-12-development/

That's good news. It's about time to have a more modern Russian aircraft to compete with the F-14, F-16 and F-18.

Edited December 19, 2020 by norbot

[Northstar98]

On 12/19/2020 at 8:09 PM, norbot said:

That's good news. It's about time to have a more modern Russian aircraft to compete with the F-14, F-16 and F-18.

 

The 9-12 MiG-29 is the first production variant from 1982, it'll best compete with the Tomcat (at least in BVR) but the others have a 20-ish year advantage.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98

[norbot]

7 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

The 9.12 MiG-29 is the first production variant from 1982, it'll best compete with the Tomcat (at least in BVR) but the others have a 20-ish year advantage.

You're absolutely right, but the most modern clickable redfor aircraft we have in DCS today is the Mig-19 and Mig-21. So the Mig-29 would be a huge step in performance, even if it will be an A variant.

[Northstar98]

On 12/19/2020 at 8:22 PM, norbot said:

You're absolutely right, but the most modern clickable redfor aircraft we have in DCS today is the Mig-19 and Mig-21. So the Mig-29 would be a huge step in performance, even if it will be an A variant.

Oh, absolutely!

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[Wizard_03]

It's one hell of a dogfighter. I see TONs of potential with this version, even with respect to BLK 50 Viper and LOT 20 bug. 

 

If we can get a good representation of GCI along with it, it will still be a pretty creditable threat in cold war situations, and there is certainly lots of potential for historical/hypothetical Asymmetric warfare. With the Persian Gulf map and the super carrier. Very excited for the MiG-29. 

[Northstar98]

On 12/19/2020 at 9:54 PM, Wizard_03 said:

It's one hell of a dogfighter. I see TONs of potential with this version, even with respect to BLK 50 Viper and LOT 20 bug. 

 

If we can get a good representation of GCI along with it, it will still be a pretty creditable threat in cold war situations, and there is certainly lots of potential for historical/hypothetical Asymmetric warfare. With the Persian Gulf map and the super carrier. Very excited for the MiG-29. 

Even so, if you want to something historically consistent, it's really the BLUFOR assets that are lacking, such as 80s versions of our current aircraft (F-16A Block 15 - F-16CG Block 40).

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[Wizard_03]

37 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

 

Even so, if you want to something historically consistent, it's really the BLUFOR assets that are lacking, such as 80s versions of our current aircraft (F-16A Block 15 - F-16CG Block 40)

For a cold war gone hot scenario yes that's true ( FC3 F-15C aside because it's sort of frankenstein's fighter right now). But for the Gulf War, we're pretty darn close, F-16CJ showed up in 93, so just 2 years Late from potentially meeting Iraqi MiG-29 9.12Bs

 

Obviously the in game version we have represent Mid 2000s spec'd F-16CJs But you can certainly play around with the mission editor and pretend well enough IMHO. The Hornet not as much but again It's still much closer then fighting MiG-19/21s as norbot pointed out. We also have plenty of weapons from the early MiG-29A's time period available to create stand ins for earlier versions of the more modern blue side Lightweights. It's not 100 percent fidelity but it's certainly not outrageous either. Plus plenty of other countries, to this day, still operate old outdated MiG-29s 

 

And Like you said; the in game tomcat IS a straight up contemporary of the 29 9.12 A/B.

 

What really interests me is possibility of a Luftwaffe version with western equipment but we'll have to see what ED comes up with.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Wizard_03

[Northstar98]

On 12/19/2020 at 10:34 PM, Wizard_03 said:

For a cold war gone hot scenario yes that's true ( FC3 F-15C aside because it's sort of frankenstein's fighter right now). But for the Gulf War, we're pretty darn close, F-16CJ showed up in 93, so just 2 years Late from potentially meeting Iraqi MiG-29 9.12Bs

 

Obviously the in game version we have represent Mid 2000s spec'd F-16CJs But you can certainly play around with the mission editor and pretend well enough IMHO.

It's certainly doable, but there are a number of things you can't change, for F-16CMs after the CCIP update. Of course it's not totally outrageous, but there are things like the RWR, the RADAR, the TGP (this is more for the Block 40, which uses LANTIRN, both the TGP and NAVPOD w. TFR) etc, all of which can't really be changed.

As for weapons, you're right, we basically have everything for an older variant.

Quote

Plus plenty of other countries, to this day, still operate old outdated MiG-29s.

Yeah, but you already have that situation in DCS World, what you don't have is peer-to-peer stuff as apart from a select few, both sides are in different centuries with a DCS take on the film, The Final Countdown (ironic as the age gap between the F-14A and the A6M5 is not far off of the age gap between the newest REDFOR aircraft we'll get and the newest BLUFOR aircraft we have).

Quote

And Like you said; the in game tomcat IS a straight up contemporary of the 29 9.12 A/B.

In the WVR arena certainly, and they definitely fit perfectly together. Though the 9-12 -29 Fulcrum-A is more analogous to the F-16A Block 15.

Quote

 

What really interests me is possibility of a Luftwaffe version with western equipment but we'll have to see what ED comes up with.

I mean, that's fine, but wouldn't that make it a BLUFOR aircraft? Personally I'd be more interested in a GDR -29 (we already have an appropriate livery for the 9-13S MiG-29S Fulcrum C).

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[lmp]

The Mirage 2000C is also a pretty good fit both in terms of capabilities and age.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

How about a MiG-29BM instead?

[Wizard_03]

I'm sure they are already doing the most modern version they can, it probably has to do with available data. 

 

My personal choice would be a Mig-29K but again they can only do what they can do. 

[killkenny1]

3 hours ago, Wizard_03 said:

I'm sure they are already doing the most modern version they can, it probably has to do with available data. 

 

My personal choice would be a Mig-29K but again they can only do what they can do. 

Oh yes, MiG-29K... Maybe one day...

After 100 years...

 

[Dragon89]

1 hour ago, killkenny1 said:

Oh yes, MiG-29K... Maybe one day...

After 100 years...

 

 

Reminds me of the good ol' days of playing Flanker 2.5

[killkenny1]

3 hours ago, Dragon89 said:

 

Reminds me of the good ol' days of playing Flanker 2.5

 

Oh yes, 2.5, I remember that too, though it had a different -29K - 9.31. New one is 9.41.

[PE_Crni]

I fell in love with airplanes when I was nine. Looking back, it was a combination of getting my first model kit (a Starfighter), my father taking me to watch Top Gun, and ex-Yugoslavia publicly presenting their new MiG-29's. It all happened in the spring of 1988. Still think of MiG-29 9.12 as the most beautiful fighter design ever, and it would be a first-day purchase for me.

 

It may be obsolescent against Fox-3 shooters, but on a Cold war servers, or on servers with some limited weaponry, it would certainly be popular, and capable plane.

[Lurker]

Quick questions for those in the know how? How will the DCS Mig-29A compare to the FC3 Mig29A we already have in the game? Will it have "better" flight model? Different avionics? Different capabilities?

 

Is it just the inclusion of the clickable cockpit? Not sure why everyone is so excited for getting a module that we can already fly in game. Please, enlighten me.

[SovietAce]

55 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Quick questions for those in the know how? How will the DCS Mig-29A compare to the FC3 Mig29A we already have in the game? Will it have "better" flight model? Different avionics? Different capabilities?

 

Is it just the inclusion of the clickable cockpit? Not sure why everyone is so excited for getting a module that we can already fly in game. Please, enlighten me.

Capability wise It will be probably very similar. Maybe we will get better look-down ranges for radar, since FC3 model is currently underperforming in this area. Clickable cockpits are great,It feels more authentic and It allows you for much better understanding of the aircraft. Its much more fun that way. 

[lmp]

There's a lot more to advanced systems modelling than just a clickable cockpit. The FC3 MiG has a lot of simplifications, inaccuracies and omissions that will hopefully be fixed by the full fidelity version.

[Dragon1-1]

Also, you won't have to guess which steerpoint you're flying to.  Currently, the FC3 MiGs don't have any indication of that, the real thing has a panel in the cockpit that lets you select that, so you can see which button you pressed.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Dragon1-1

[Tone_Picky]

This module is a waste of time unless

- Numerous SARH bugs are fixed
- R-27 aerodynamics and kinematics are recalculated
- The flight model of the FC3 MiG-29 (in case it's identical to FF module) is redone in terms of pitch stability and reverse ground effect during takeoff/landing. The real aircraft pilot had published the real MiG-29 flight controls records in russian fulcrum thread which indicate severe differences between the model and the aircraft (See https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4494719&postcount=4685)

Edited December 30, 2020 by Tone_Picky