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Cost of upgrading A10C


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Wow...So many of you just waiting to toss your money at ED. Especially since there are so many unfinished modules years after their release. That's crazy to me. My take is a little different. I don't think that anyone is wrong or right here mind you. I really don't. You are perfectly justified in buying it if it brings you pleasure. But I kind of feel like the new A10 is sort of a cop out. It's like, Police Academy 6......A quick money maker that didn't require a lot of effort (relatively speaking) and isn't really all that thrilling. I don't mind the A10 the way it is and don't care if it's realistic or not. The truth is, I'll never ever know what it's like to fly an A10 because ED or any other company for that matter cannot put me in a real cockpit. You could put a dolphin's nose in the cockpit and tell me that it's a real A10 system And I would be none the wiser. I'm not training to fly any of these planes. I do know what certain aspects of military aviation are like and what they can do as I experienced them first hand when I was in the military. I have to say that more often than not, what I saw with my own two eyes and experienced in the flesh, ED seems to be pulling from a completely different reality. So what I have from ED, and what I paid for is plenty enough for me. This is a simulator, or game. I enjoy it for exactly what it is. I have lived reality and seen and felt what A10's, and Hueys can do. All I can say is that this is a game that is close to being a simulator. The new A10 means nothing but more $$ for nothing to me.

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Fair enough.

The new bells and whistles mean more to me and people like me than they mean to you and others who think alike. That's fine.

I will throw $$, you will not, balance is there, cool.


Edited by Gierasimov
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Wow...So many of you just waiting to toss your money at ED. Especially since there are so many unfinished modules years after their release.

 

 

If you've ever written code you'd know that it's never done. There just comes a time when it stops being written for various reasons.

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I assume, based on no knowledge at all :), that the new A-10C II will not be build up/developed from scratch, but will be a further development from the current (old) A-10C module.

 

In that case it would only really be fair to to give current A-10C owners a serious discount.

 

I trust ED to match the A-10C II price to the amount of work invested into it by them.

If upgrading the old module takes them the same time as creating a new module, I don't see why they should not ask full price (I would be highly surprised if it would, but I'd probably end up buying anyway)

 

(new customers, that don't own the current A-10C version, should obviously pay for the full module price)

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I bought the A-10 years ago and flew it often. In fact, I actually bought the A-10 twice, FC-3 twice, and the Black Shark I bought and updated to BS-2 even though I don't fly that at all either. When the A-10c II comes out, I'll pay what I am asked to pay for it. Right now, I'm thoroughly immersed in the FA-18 and the SuperCarrier. But, for the record, if ED wants to sell a module and I have the money, I'll buy it. I have every module that ED has issued except the FW-190 Anton and the I-16. Most I just don't fly. This is my way of supporting ED because I am so in love with what I DO fly: Hornet (with the SC), Huey, P-51, and the Christen Eagle.


Edited by =Mac=

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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I really hope they allow us to pay full price for a brand new module.

 

I've paid for the DCS A-10C module years ago, and I personally don't carry that notion of entitlement around just because I dropped a few bucks on something way back when...

 

Exactly.

 

For clarity, of where I stand on the A-10CII

 

Shut up and take my money.

 

I have spent more on the Borderlands and Fallout Franchise for titles that wear thin and old within six months. I am still getting enjoyment out of modules I bought 6 or 7 years ago from ED. DCS is a steal when it comes to longevity and enjoyment for the initial investment.

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

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I don't have too many games that have been supported in an ever changing environment for free for almost 10 years, including the latest free cockpit upgrade.

 

Some of the new systems will offer the pilot a massive advance in Situational Awareness, and that alone would be enough for me to purchase the module.

 

After all this time, it would be worth full price to me, but if there's a discount for v1 owners, I'm not saying no to that. ;)

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I don't have too many games that have been supported in an ever changing environment for free for almost 10 years

 

 

You don't have many games that still work after 10 years?

Really?

 

Seems unlikely...which games do you have from 2010 (the year of Football Manager 2010, Starcraft 2 etc) that no longer work?

 

 

 

Purely out of interest, what do you think is an acceptable lifespan for an entertainment product you purchase...before the owner of the IP renders it unusable without jumping through a number of technical hoops?

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I assume, based on no knowledge at all :), that the new A-10C II will not be build up/developed from scratch, but will be a further development from the current (old) A-10C module.

 

In that case it would only really be fair to to give current A-10C owners a serious discount.

 

I trust ED to match the A-10C II price to the amount of work invested into it by them.

If upgrading the old module takes them the same time as creating a new module, I don't see why they should not ask full price (I would be highly surprised if it would, but I'd probably end up buying anyway)

 

(new customers, that don't own the current A-10C version, should obviously pay for the full module price)

 

I believe they updated A10C for professional client and they're migrating those updates to us... is what I read.

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You don't have many games that still work after 10 years?

Really?

 

You actually have 10 year old games that are still in continuous and active development for no extra cost?

Really?

 

Come on man, no need to twist my words. The point is not that DCS A-10C still runs. The point is that it was a standalone product that was integrated into DCS World for no extra cost, that DCS World has seen continuous development over the entire lifespan of A-10C v1, and that A-10C v1 has even been directly upgraded, for free, just a few months ago.

 

Now how many games do you have that are even remotely comparable in this regard?

 

Edit:

 

Purely out of interest, what do you think is an acceptable lifespan for an entertainment product you purchase...before the owner of the IP renders it unusable without jumping through a number of technical hoops?

 

Interestingly enough, 2010 was also the year Battlefield Bad Company 2 came out. I remember playing it rather vividly, until all the cool kids moved on and the servers were left with cheating bastards dealing pistol headshots all over the map, and no one giving a damn. The game wasn't even actively destroyed by its creators. It was simply abandoned and became worthless. I assume I could still launch it, but why should I?

 

Now if they polished it up, took care of current known cheats and asked extra money, I might actually consider getting the new version, because there was a lot I liked about it. But unlike DCS, Battlefield 3 came out less than 2 years later, full price of course, and to the best of my knowledge not even discounted no matter how many BF titles you'd purchased before, then another 2 years later BF4, and so on.

 

The point being that when ED upgrade A-10C to a newer version and they ask extra money after actively supporting it for 10 years, that is absolutely fine with me. What they have done so far is simply outstanding and well beyond entertainment industry standards.


Edited by Yurgon
A few more points
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I got the A-10 on one of the sales this year. Can't remember which. Have gotten most of the campaigns (Miles), looking forward to the upgrade, and if have to pay for upgraded campaigns, so be it. But I'm not worried, in another thread ED said they will continue to work side by side.

Only predicament, as my better half wants to get into DCS. Should I get another copy before the upgrade? Just in case, to make sure I have double of everything. I already have two Sharks. Do you think I can get two upgrades?

It's gonna be money well spent anyway.

Cheers!

 

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I believe they updated A10C for professional client and they're migrating those updates to us... is what I read.

 

I think this is exactly why the A-10C was, and still is the most finished product in DCS. The vast majority of the development was paid for by institutions with much deeper pockets than any of us have.

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You actually have 10 year old games that are still in continuous and active development for no extra cost?

Really?

 

 

The "in continuous and active development" is a bit of a red herring...its not at "no cost" new modules/maps/campaigns/assets have a substantial $ value attached to them and any development of the base game is to support revenue generating sales of those modules and/or to ensure legacy modules meet the minimum expectations of year 201x/202x purchasers to generate sales of those modules...

 

 

Besides...my beef is with the fact that it won't be possible to take the module i've purchased launch it in the current version of the game and use it to play other products i've purchased at a substantial $ cost...

The example you give BF2 Bad Company STILL works if you install patch to the latest version and launch it...and I challenge you to find any 2010/2011 examples that doesn't apply to) so we're not comparing apples with apples...

 

 

As far as I'm concerned ED may/maynot continue to develop new functionality/modules etc etc...but surely any customers BARE MINIMUM expectation of ED is that they DON'T DISABLE product i've already purchased without an apology and a refund...

 

 

(ANd no such esoteric fixes such as identifying which legacy version still functions and then installing it side by side with a current version ISN'T a realistic solution)

 

 

As i've repeatedly pointed out the cost of the new A10C module isn't an issue (or the Syria map etc etc) BUT its a far more unappealing prospect if I have no idea how long they'll be functional for...how long (for example) should we expect the F18C and its associated DLC to be functional for? Will ED release an F18 E/F and thus render it and its associated DLC (Serpents Head/Raven One etc) null and void?

 

 

The fact that this concern has been raised a number of times here and elsewhere with zero comment from ED repressentatives about the future viability of peoples original A10C & content purchases is concerning to say the least...

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The "in continuous and active development" is a bit of a red herring...its not at "no cost" new modules/maps/campaigns/assets have a substantial $ value attached to them and any development of the base game is to support revenue generating sales of those modules and/or to ensure legacy modules meet the minimum expectations of year 201x/202x purchasers to generate sales of those modules...

 

That is all true, but doesn't change the fact that customers of the A-10C Warthog did not have to purchase anything other than the module itself to profit from most of these upgrades and updates.

 

Besides...my beef is with the fact that it won't be possible to take the module i've purchased launch it in the current version of the game and use it to play other products i've purchased at a substantial $ cost...

 

I'm not 100% sure which way this is going to go and if that statement is correct.

 

But let's assume it is, I see 3 ways to handle such a situation:

 

1. Keep the old module version in current and future DCS versions

2. Discontinue the old module version and cease to support it beyond a specific DCS version

3. Remove the old module version from DCS

 

3. makes no sense at all, because we can already upgrade and downgrade to all conceivable DCS versions.

 

The cost of maintaining old software is substantial. Old code is a liability. Purely from a business point of view, it just doesn't make any sense to support something old, when there is a replacement. And from a software point of view, maintaining legacy code takes resources. The older the code gets, the more resources its maintenance is going to cost.

 

At some point, it'll most likely come down to option 2: discontinue support for the old module.

 

That old module will remain perfectly playable, just like BFBC2 and Football Manager 2010 and Starcraft 2. It just won't be playable in the latest version of DCS.

 

Now how you deal with that is kind of up to you. You can downgrade your current installation when you want to fly the old A-10, and then upgrade again afterwards. You can keep two installations in parallel. You can delete the old version, and re-install it whenever you want to go back to the old module. What I think you cannot reasonably demand is being provided free updates to the core game, while maintaining access to discontinued, legacy products.

 

And honestly, how often do you fly old campaigns?

 

The prospect of a discount for owners of the old version is even better. And the added features of the new version alone would make me purchase it at full price.

 

Bottom line, just like BFBC2, the DCS A-10C Warthog will remain available for all we know. And just like Battlefield V doesn't include a playable version of BC2, DCS 2.5.whatnot may not support the old A-10 module any longer.

 

My point is that the lifespan for this particular module and the continued support for the module itself has been outstanding (barring some of the free bugs :D).

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Giving the current A-10 and KA-50 cockpit makeovers leads me to believe they wont be abandoned any time soon. I would think most bugs or problems that arise from future updates would be a simple copy paste from new to legacy version of modules since the differences are pretty limited.

 

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Giving the current A-10 and KA-50 cockpit makeovers leads me to believe they wont be abandoned any time soon. I would think most bugs or problems that arise from future updates would be a simple copy paste from new to legacy version of modules since the differences are pretty limited.
This!

I've said it before, but I'll downplay it somewhat.

I'm 99% sure some ED representative said that both the current Shark and Warthog will function, they will just not be for sale anymore. And if you upgrade, you'll have both as functional modules alongside the new ones.

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

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Now how many games do you have that are even remotely comparable in this regard?

 

. . .

 

Interestingly enough, 2010 was also the year Battlefield Bad Company 2 came out. I remember playing it rather vividly, until all the cool kids moved on and the servers were left with cheating bastards dealing pistol headshots all over the map, and no one giving a damn. The game wasn't even actively destroyed by its creators. It was simply abandoned and became worthless. I assume I could still launch it, but why should I?

 

 

Good times, BF2 and BF1 (1942 also) - and your point is dead on. After awhile the titles were basically abandoned only to be overrun by bunny hopping hackers and cheaters. Sure you could still play it, if you liked getting spawn sniped and no one was left for organized play.

 

The only examples of those games being supported long after the player base had moved on was Community mods like "Project Reality", as the developer had walked away from it long ago.

 

To your point (as to why DCS is still strong) and others about "10 year old titles" that are still playable. Sure they are out there, but do you STILL play them, do they STILL have a enthusiastic community to interact with, are they STILL interesting enough that you have it installed and actively play it day in and day out?

 

In this regard, DCS is hands down the longevity best bang for the buck king of this gaming genre. Really don't understand all the wailing and gnashing of teeth to get a significantly upgraded module and it might cost $60.00 or more. Even if I already own it.


Edited by SmirkingGerbil
cleaned up sentence.

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

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The cost of maintaining old software is substantial. Old code is a liability. Purely from a business point of view, it just doesn't make any sense to support something old

Point of note: I'm not asking or expecting continuing support...that would be unreasonable...

I'm merely asking to be able to continue using it in its PRESENT state, as it was sold...with the DLC I purchased for it...to continue to function in the way it was sold...

Now, when i bought the A10C module the NTTR terrain and DLC campaigns...they were sold as being part of DCS world...(and indeed continue to be sold as such) I take that as meaning I can utilise it with the F18C I purchased in early access state shortly after...and from a literal point of view SHOULD also mean it will be usable with the F16C module that is being sold in early access...

 

 

That would mean as an absolute minimum expectation that the A10C (legacy) and the currently sold DLC should be supported and function correctly with DCS versions up to the point those module LEAVE early access status

 

 

The A10C & the DLC Campaigns are certainly not being sold currently with the caveat...will not be functional with the completed F18C and F16C modules in DCS World is it?

 

 

 

If an ED representative can confirm that...that would be helpful and would clarify the confusion around the module.

 

 

I'll have no issues if I'm able to "freeze" my DCS installation at a version point that includes all the modules and content I purchased prior to being told they would no longer be supported and compatible and are released in a completed state...


Edited by jasonbirder

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But that is asking for support since changes in the underlying engine may require module changes and will definitely require testing effort

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I see it fine....

 

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Windows 10 Home ¦ Z370 AORUS Gaming K3 motherboard ¦ i5-8600K oc to 4.3GHz ¦ 48GB Corsair PC4 memory @ 3000MHz ¦ Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD for OS, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD for DCS ¦ ASUS ROG GTX 2060 Super 8GB ¦ Virpil WarBRD base with VFX grip, Thrustmaster A10c and F/A-18 grips ¦ VKB Gunfighter Mk2 and MCG ¦ Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle ¦ MFG Crosswinds ¦ Oculus Rift S

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