How do I AAR?

[ruddy122]

I saw it on F/A-18s and Mirage 2000s

 

 

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[ruddy122]

The KC10 blows out Fuel Lines on F-14s not good when over Iraq

 

 

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[Bob_Bushman]

If you need to make cool videos, just learn it right, might take a few weeks but in that time it went from "Dear lord this is impossible! To "hang on I can do this, just gotta focus real hard".

 

Now I find myself refueling at a tanker rather than landing and having to do another realign.

 

As for video capture I'd recommend flying it, save the replay and recording that.

 

As for easy mode it's already in, you can fly with unlimited fuel.

[Steel Jaw]

I'll add another video to the growing list of how to videos. This is more a technique video, how I accomplish the task. Keeping it simple.

 

 

What is that placard below the HUD where the bit test usually is?

[=Panther=]

What is that placard below the HUD where the bit test usually is?

 

BVR Timeline.

[Magnate]

One little tip for anyone trying to learn AAR with a Warthog set-up. I found that no matter what friction setting I had on the throttle it was too stiff and this impacted badly on my speed control. The cure was to disconnect the left and right throttles and to just use the right-hand one. This results in much greatly reduced friction and much easier fine control over speed. Not a solution for the purists, but it worked for me. I use this configuration for both the Harrier and the Hornet, with the left-hand throttle serving as nozzle control for the Harrier. When flying the A10 I have the throttles connected, but I haven't tried AAR refueling in the A10 in ages.

[BuzzU]

I thought the Hornet was one of the easier planes to do AAR. Anybody should be able to do it with some effort.

[Ourorborus]

A quick tip I learned today for AAR...... FPS!!! (or possibly frame time)

 

I have recently upgraded from a GTX1060 to an RTX3070 (yay me) and today I loaded up DCS for the first time since the upgrade.

 

I fly in VR and found the 1060 limiting but "playable" FPS was shall we say low.. (40-50).

 

Loading up today the whole sim is soo much smoother. I didn't measure the FPS but it was an experience to see how much smoother it was. 

 

Why am I posting in an AAR thread? Because my take away was with the better performance AAR suddenly became easy!  The much smoother gameplay had me connecting and reconnecting with ease. So anyone struggling with AAR I suggest lowing a few options (or upgrading pc if budget allows) and see if it makes a difference. It may be that what you thought was "good enough" may be adversely affecting your ability to make the fine adjustments needed to maintain station.

[equinox137]

On 7/21/2020 at 10:03 PM, drhay53 said:

I have been struggling through refueling in the hornet for weeks as well. I posted a not-well-received advice in a thread to use the dampening qualities of the autopilot as an aid.

 

Anyway I have been working towards AAR with no autopilot and for me the answer was that I needed to clean and lubricate my x52 pro. I was getting more sticktion than I thought at small inputs. I play with curvature at 15 btw.

Last night after cleaning the stick I got contact during a turn for the first time ever. With no AP aid. And I kept contact for a full 75% fill up. And I managed to actually do that twice.

 

My advice is... When you get pissed off, take a break.

Evaluate other causes of your issues (old sticking joystick?)

I prefer a 3-4 knot approach speed.

Generally focusing something on the tanker that intersects the HUD at the +10 degree ladder is what works for me.

Trim up very carefully before going in. Null stick input and monitor changes in roll and pitch (via altitude). This helped me immensely. Make sure you trim at the speed and altitude you'll be contacting. I just do it right before starting my approach.

 

I'm sure you know these things but it's worth mentioning. I cant tell you how many times I've rage shot down the tanker in the practice mission. It gets better the more you get a feel for the plane and just know that you'll get it eventually. But practicing while angry won't get you there!

Trim a hornet for AAR?  How? 

 

In all the video tutorials for AAR I've watched, I've never seen any of them mention trimming. 

[oldcrusty]

On 7/22/2020 at 5:51 AM, SharpeXB said:

...Some other helpful advice is:

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

If I ever screw up it’s because I was looking at the basket, It hangs so temptingly in front of you... begging you to loo at it

But...

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

Don’t look at the basket!

 

 

I'm not looking! I'm not!   

 

Well, this one aspect of AAR can never penetrate my thick skull. I have to look, lol.

I developed a slight modification to to the 'pro' way of flying an approach to the basket. I mostly gas up from orbiting S3's and I use its refueling pod for vertical line-up. I try to keep the pod along the line between the center (or tiny bit right of) my top mirror, so... that's my localizer  The glideslope is the basket... more or less.

As I get to within few feet of the basket, I'm ashamed to admit... I'm driving toward the basket. Now, once I'm in, my complete focus is on keeping the tanker's pod just below the center of my top mirror. I can move slightly right of center. Also, it helps to keep the hose pushed in a few feet.

Just flew today. In this clip the tanker was turning when I plugged in, then it leveled off. It was in a racetrack pattern. I managed to stay connected but it would be helpful to get a heads-up from the tanker before it starts rolling out or banking.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Gripes323

[Dragon1-1]

Realistically, you would get a heads-up before it enters a turn. We don't have this in DCS, but at least USAF tankers will warn you IRL.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Dragon1-1

[oldcrusty]

17 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Realistically, you would get a heads-up before it enters a turn. We don't have this in DCS, but at least USAF tankers will warn you IRL.

 

 

It's actually not that bad once you're sticking to your reference point on the tanker. You notice the change immediately and correct.

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, but it takes a lot of practice. It helps that tankers in DCS make really shallow turns you can adjust for after some practice (however, they are so slow that they can be quite insidious). Real tankers turn a lot more, and either way, the moment when its bank is changing is where the problem is. It helps if you're expecting it.

[Steel Jaw]

Funny thing, I have tried AAR with the Bug in both VR and pancake, I dont find either easier than the other.

[oldcrusty]

54 minutes ago, Mower said:

Funny thing, I have tried AAR with the Bug in both VR and pancake, I dont find either easier than the other.

 

Certainly you can get used to either way but... since RL flying and everything else for that matter is done in 3d (who knows, possibly more d's), the VR makes it a bit more immersive.

[guiduz]

Hi Guys, I've encountered a challenge with air-to-air refueling on the F18 following the 2.9 update, specifically when interacting with the S-3 tanker.

Unlike the KC135, with which I have no issues, the S-3's refueling probe appears to have undergone changes. It seems the probe may have been shortened, requiring a closer approach to the tanker for a successful connection. This has made the refueling process noticeably more unstable.

Has anyone else experienced increased difficulty with the S-3 tanker since the 2.9 update? Any insights or suggestions to adapt to this potential change would be greatly appreciated.

[bonesvf103]

On 11/5/2023 at 10:29 AM, guiduz said:

Hi Guys, I've encountered a challenge with air-to-air refueling on the F18 following the 2.9 update, specifically when interacting with the S-3 tanker.

Unlike the KC135, with which I have no issues, the S-3's refueling probe appears to have undergone changes. It seems the probe may have been shortened, requiring a closer approach to the tanker for a successful connection. This has made the refueling process noticeably more unstable.

Has anyone else experienced increased difficulty with the S-3 tanker since the 2.9 update? Any insights or suggestions to adapt to this potential change would be greatly appreciated.

I just posted about that in the bugs forum as I noticed the shorter hose as well.  The discussion is ongoing here:

v6,

boNes

 

[Kaktus]

i'm busting my brains trying to AAR for first time ever.. i fly the F14B and dear god i am starting to doubt its possible.

 

So FIRST and FOREMOST ISSUE IS  ---- TRIMMING-- how do you guys trim, that is mostly the pitch trim, what i mean is can you get positive zero with trim, that is, you let go of the stick and the freaking plane stays LEVEL, i am saying LEVEL, not 1 single feet per second climb, not even 1 foot per hour climb or descent.. i am saying level, or is it impossible thus you have to INPUT your movement from joystick therefore must have CONSTANT TENSION in the stick-which i think its BS as that reduces movement of the stick in that direction you are pulling so your precision will drop..not to mention how crazy it is to keep trimming in such a position.

 

So, my progress so far is, i can line up, i can somewhat stablizie, i even connected like 5 times for 2 seconds before i disconnect.. obviously i will disconnect, the plane is too unstable, you need to have trimmed plane, but every single increment of the TRIM, when you press the trim once, it seems to be too much, it moves it in opposite direction, i try to get level trim, and i am just a slight above-climbing, so i press 1 click (i can't see how to press 1 tenth of a click) and boom , now i'm in a descent. !?!?!

 

 

[Raisuli]

6 minutes ago, Kaktus said:

i'm busting my brains trying to AAR for first time ever.. i fly the F14B and dear god i am starting to doubt its possible.

 

So FIRST and FOREMOST ISSUE IS  ---- TRIMMING-- how do you guys trim, that is mostly the pitch trim, what i mean is can you get positive zero with trim, that is, you let go of the stick and the freaking plane stays LEVEL, i am saying LEVEL, not 1 single feet per second climb, not even 1 foot per hour climb or descent.. i am saying level, or is it impossible thus you have to INPUT your movement from joystick therefore must have CONSTANT TENSION in the stick-which i think its BS as that reduces movement of the stick in that direction you are pulling so your precision will drop..not to mention how crazy it is to keep trimming in such a position.

 

So, my progress so far is, i can line up, i can somewhat stablizie, i even connected like 5 times for 2 seconds before i disconnect.. obviously i will disconnect, the plane is too unstable, you need to have trimmed plane, but every single increment of the TRIM, when you press the trim once, it seems to be too much, it moves it in opposite direction, i try to get level trim, and i am just a slight above-climbing, so i press 1 click (i can't see how to press 1 tenth of a click) and boom , now i'm in a descent. !?!?!

 

 

I never trim a Hornet for A2AR.  Ever.  Tried it once, and it was worse than just flying the airplane.  Yeah, the stick is always slightly deflected.  No big deal.

Then again, ask ten people how they do that particular task and you're likely to get ten answers.  I think that might even be true with real pilots, because I've heard a couple say "well, what always worked for me was..."

My tricks?  Stay relaxed (I generally pucker up enough to take the simpit with me when I stand), fingertips only on the stick, feet on the floor, try to stay out of phase with the aircraft, which means I've already backed the correction out before it shows up on my eyeballs.  Wear the right glasses, and I have a pair for sim work, focus on the refueling pod and keep it stationary.  Hence the 'right glasses', because that will strain my eyes with my normal computer glasses.  When the PIO starts, and it does, remember to relax again and get back out of phase.  Don't fail at this for too long; do something else, even if it's just flying formation off the tanker's wing.

What crossed the line for me was creating formation flights, usually with an F-14 as lead (because it's big and smokes just enough).  An hour or so of chasing after that F-14, try to stay as close as possible without getting run over or bouncing around too much because A2AR is really just a close formation flight and nothing more.

[rob10]

Don't worry about getting it trimmed perfectly, if you're within 1 click of trim that more than close enough (esp pitch).  Realized after I wrote this that I had landing on the brain.  As Jaylw13 said, don't mess with pitch trim EXCEPT when you're landing and have gear/flaps down.  Once you start taking on the extra weight of fuel it's going to change your trim anyway so you'll need adjust pitch with stick.

For me when I was starting out, the most important thing was to NOT look at the basket (I can now, but if I'm having a rare bad AAR day, then I follow this advice again).  Look at the tanker or somewhere else, but not directly at the basket.  Using your peripheral vision will naturally dampen your movements trying to follow it because it won't be as obvious when it's moving.  Once you figure out what speed the tanker is at (it will be slightly different from what the tanker tells you ) keep an eye on the speed in your HUD.  It will start to drop or climb by 1 kt before you notice it visually (esp in 2D) and increase/decrease throttle accordingly.  PIO is mostly practice, but especially as you're lining up, don't bother fighting it -- it will win 98% of the time.  If you start PIOing as you're lining up with the basket drop throttle slightly, back off 5 feet and restabilize (it much easier when you're away from the basket because you're not trying to stabilize into that tiny spot).  Once you connect you actually have a little more leeway because the basket attached to your probe will move farther before it falls off than you'd have to hit the basket, so (counter-intuitively) it's easier.  Don't bother trying to be perfectly stable because that only happens briefly on rare occasion while fuelling (it's glorious when it does).  Be prepared to be constantly adjusting pitch/roll and throttle ever so slightly the whole time you're connected.

And of course, practice makes perfect .

Edited February 28 by rob10

[jaylw314]

50 minutes ago, Kaktus said:

i'm busting my brains trying to AAR for first time ever.. i fly the F14B and dear god i am starting to doubt its possible.

 

So FIRST and FOREMOST ISSUE IS  ---- TRIMMING-- how do you guys trim, that is mostly the pitch trim, what i mean is can you get positive zero with trim, that is, you let go of the stick and the freaking plane stays LEVEL, i am saying LEVEL, not 1 single feet per second climb, not even 1 foot per hour climb or descent.. i am saying level, or is it impossible thus you have to INPUT your movement from joystick therefore must have CONSTANT TENSION in the stick-which i think its BS as that reduces movement of the stick in that direction you are pulling so your precision will drop..not to mention how crazy it is to keep trimming in such a position.

Stop futzing around with the trim.  Hornet auto-trims to 1G.  At least until you mess with it.  Now you have a plane that trims to 1.05G, which is not helpful for really anything.

You don't maintain altitude by getting the trim dialed in.  You maintain altitude by constantly bumping the nose up and down with the stick.  It's like balancing a baseball bat on your hand--if you try to do it by getting the bat perfectly vertical so you don't have to move your hand, you will fail.  You do it by constantly moving your hand around under the bat, and as you get better, those motions get smaller (but never to zero).

 

Edited February 27 by jaylw314

[Phantom711]

Try using CSS mode (Control Stick Steering). Press the AP button and then the ON button. Nothing else (no BALT or anything). It makes all movements a bit more dampened and smooth.

As with all AP modes you disengage it with the NWS button. paddle switch.

 

Edited February 28 by Phantom711

[Dangerzone]

3 hours ago, Kaktus said:

So, my progress so far is, i can line up, i can somewhat stablizie, i even connected like 5 times for 2 seconds before i disconnect.. obviously i will disconnect, the plane is too unstable, you need to have trimmed plane, but every single increment of the TRIM, when you press the trim once, it seems to be too much, it moves it in opposite direction, i try to get level trim, and i am just a slight above-climbing, so i press 1 click (i can't see how to press 1 tenth of a click) and boom , now i'm in a descent. !?!?!

If you're only connecting for 2 seconds and then disconnecting, my guess is that you're not yet ready for the basket, and you're focusing on the basket, and not formation flying. 

AAR is all about formation flying (ignoring the basket). Practice flying formation behind the plane near where you need to be, without the basket there first (don't call ready precontact). Keep practising that formation flying until you can fly formation without getting into PIO, or losing your position. 

Then move closer to the plane, and practise formation flying again, closer to the wings. Again, this is about formation flying - not air to air refueling. 

Doing this will achieve 2 goals:

1) Formation flying (and practising) is easier, as well as more fun than chasing a darn basket around that you just want to shoot down, and

2) Practising formation flying is practising AAR but removes the temptation of 'focusing on the basket', or 'chasing the basket'.

Once you become proficient at that, then get the basket out - but once again - ignore plugging in. Practice flying formation with the probe behind the basket, but don't try to plug in. Keep flying formation on the plane - and IGNORE the basket. Don't worry about where your probe is in response to the basket, but rather just use the basket as an indicator of how much you're moving around in formation. If you need, cancel your intent to refuel to get them to retract the basket and go back to formation flying without the basket until you're OK, and then get them to release the basket again.

Once you achieve these 2 goals, the next step is to plug in. But you don't plug in by focusing on the basket and trying to 'get it in'. You plug in just by flying formation flying and making slight adjustments forward. And for the love of all things good - don't focus on the basket after plugging in, but again, just fly formation with the plane. That's the secret. Chasing that basket will leave you forever failing.

The "2 second" plugin tells me that your most likely focusing on the basket, which is honestly where we all get it wrong to start with. This trick of formation flying made the world of difference to me. I struggled with AAR. Then I gave up, did formation flying and came back later, and the difference was chalk and cheese. Hope it helps you.

Edited February 28 by Dangerzone

[Tholozor]

7 hours ago, Phantom711 said:

As with all AP modes you disengage it with the NWS button.

Autopilot modes are disengaged with the paddle switch.

[Phantom711]

@Tholozor

Sorry….my bad. Above post edited accordingly.

Edited February 28 by Phantom711