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IFF Question


MivwTaupos
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I have turned IFF on, data link on, so my SA page and attack radar (RWS) can see green circle for friendly, red diamond for enemy, but when I switch RWS to TWS, those planes inside the reader search zone become designated priority 1,2,3,4... (depends on threat). and they become yellow brick. So how can I know are they friendly or enemy?

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Wags mentions:

 

"We put the TDC over the target and do an IFF interrogation..."

 

Do I have to push any button or just placing the TDC over the target will interrogate it?

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Wags mentions:

 

 

 

"We put the TDC over the target and do an IFF interrogation..."

 

 

 

Do I have to push any button or just placing the TDC over the target will interrogate it?

Iirc you have to use the sensor select switch Depress for IFF interrogation
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Maybe I am wrong, but you only have to put it on the brick for interrogation (waiting 2 or 3 seconds). The switch depress is for tracking this contact as STT (in RWS)

 

I think so as well, another depress on the L&S target will STT designate it.

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Iirc you have to use the sensor select switch Depress for IFF interrogation

This! Sensor Select Switch Depress is the button to press for this.

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Wags mentions:

 

"We put the TDC over the target and do an IFF interrogation..."

 

Do I have to push any button or just placing the TDC over the target will interrogate it?

 

On the radar page with LTWS enabled, the aircraft will automatically perform an IFF interrogation of targets that are placed under the radar cursor. If you put a non-interrogated target into STT then you can interrogate it with SCS Depress, and you can also use SCS Depress to interrogate a contact on the SA page.

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but what is the difference betwwen rectangle brick and pentagon brick? thanks

 

Those are HAFU (Hostile, Ambiguous, Friendly, Unknown) symbols. The top-half of the symbol represents what your onboard sensors have determined. The lower-half represents what offboard sensors are telling you. In the image you posted, the top half is a rectangle, as your aircraft so far has not determined anything about it, and has classified it as Unknown. Offboard sensors are telling your aircraft that the contact is hostile, but since your aircraft has not correlated that information, the HAFU symbol stays Unknown. If you then perform an IFF interrogation, and the contact does not reply, your aircraft will then correlate the contact as Hostile and change the top-half of the symbol to a chevron. The same thing would apply to friendly contacts as well with a rectangular top-half and circular bottom-half. IFF on that type contact should return as Friendly and change to a full, green circle.

 

 

Is there an advantage to using LTWS versus TWS, other than the auto IFF once covered by the TDC? I find this mode to be very confusing.

 

Automatic IFF is not yet a thing (should be part of the AZ/EL page IIRC). IFF interrogation is, at the moment, a completely manual process that the pilot must perform by placing the TDC over a contact on the radar page and pressing SCS Depress. The aircraft will only interrogate the contact under the cursor.

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Is there an advantage to using LTWS versus TWS, other than the auto IFF once covered by the TDC? I find this mode to be very confusing.

LTWS is a way to bring some TWS features into the RWS radar mode. It allows you to create rough tracks of air contacts, mark a contact as L&S for visual tracking on the HUD and in the HMD, and mark tracks as friendly or hostile. RWS can cover a larger scan volume than TWS, so you can use LTWS to track contacts over a wider swath of airspace. The trade-off is that LTWS tracks have a poor temporal resolution and cannot be used to support a weapon launch, and are on the whole less stable and prone to being dropped by the radar. Put more simply: in RWS with LTWS disabled, you only get green bricks and won't see HAFUs, heading bars, or target info. All of that stuff comes from LTWS.

 

TWS provides much better tracking, and is required if you want to launch an AMRAAM at multiple targets. But it forces you into a smaller radar scan volume, as the computer needs the radar antenna to sweep over contacts more frequently to reliably track them.

 

IFF interrogation is, at the moment, a completely manual process that the pilot must perform by placing the TDC over a contact on the radar page and pressing SCS Depress.

That's not entirely true. In RWS with LTWS enabled, simply moving the radar cursor over a track file will perform an IFF interrogation without needing to press SCS. This is the only auto IFF function currently implemented.

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That's not entirely true. In RWS with LTWS enabled, simply moving the radar cursor over a track file will perform an IFF interrogation without needing to press SCS. This is the only auto IFF function currently implemented.

 

Negative, hovering the cursor over a contact on the radar page does not perform an interrogation, it only reveals the HAFU symbol (the latent track) as the TUC (target under cursor). If the contact has already had its IFF status checked, the aircraft will remember that track has been correlated.


Edited by Tholozor

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Arleigh Burke Destroyer Pack (2020): https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3313752/

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Related question: How to perform an NCTR scan to help with IFF?

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On the radar page with LTWS enabled, the aircraft will automatically perform an IFF interrogation of targets that are placed under the radar cursor. If you put a non-interrogated target into STT then you can interrogate it with SCS Depress, and you can also use SCS Depress to interrogate a contact on the SA page.

 

That's great! Thanks man, didn't know about it.

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Negative, hovering the cursor over a contact on the radar page does not perform an interrogation, it only reveals the HAFU symbol (the latent track) as the TUC (target under cursor). If the contact has already had its IFF status checked, the aircraft will remember that track has been correlated.

 

That's not what Wags says here:

 

And that's not my experience. I frequently place an uninterrogated target under my cursor and it performs an interrogation. In fact, this is the most common method I use for IFF interrogation.

 

Related question: How to perform an NCTR scan to help with IFF?

With NCTR boxed on the radar page (it should be by default), place a target in STT and NCTR will attempt to get a print automatically. For a successful NCTR read that target generally needs to be within about 30nm and +/- 30 degrees in either front or rear aspect.

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With NCTR boxed on the radar page (it should be by default), place a target in STT and NCTR will attempt to get a print automatically. For a successful NCTR read that target generally needs to be within about 30nm and +/- 30 degrees in either front or rear aspect.

So there is no way to manually initiate an NCTR scan without giving the target a warning that it is getting locked?

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And that's not my experience. I frequently place an uninterrogated target under my cursor and it performs an interrogation. In fact, this is the most common method I use for IFF interrogation.

Yup, this is definitely how it works in LTWS in DCS.

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I frequently place an uninterrogated target under my cursor and it performs an interrogation. In fact, this is the most common method I use for IFF interrogation.

 

Interesting, I'll have to check my installation, as that doesn't happen for me.

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...and cannot be used to support a weapon launch

Last I checked LTWS could launch and support AMRAAMs (tho that was a month or two ago. I havent used LTWS at all recently).

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So there is no way to manually initiate an NCTR scan without giving the target a warning that it is getting locked?

No. As far as I know NCTR analysis requires direct beam reflection off the target's engine fan blades. I don't believe it's even technically possible to get a NCTR print from a scanning radar return, though this is a very complex subject that I'm not an expert in and much of the research in this field is classified anyway.

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Last I checked LTWS could launch and support AMRAAMs (tho that was a month or two ago. I havent used LTWS at all recently).

Yah, I'm actually curious how this works in real life. Wags says LTWS does not support missile guidance, but I think that's a oversimplification.

 

The Hornet never prevents you from launching a missile based on target data, you can maddog without a lock at all so I don't imagine it'll just say "nope" when you have a L&S designation in RWS/LTWS. Maybe it doesn't provide mid-course guidance at all in LTWS? Though from a technical standpoint I don't know why that would be the case, I would think it could.

 

My guess is it's more a continuum of track quality. The radar and weapons computer sends mid-course guidance updates to the AMRAAM with every update frame the target is in. This means the quality of mid-course guidance is better the more frequently the radar dish sweeps over the target. More updates means better tracking resolution which means faster and more efficient response to any maneuvers the target makes. This would mean that the quality of mid-course updates for an AMRAAM launch would be poor in RWS/LTWS, better in TWS, and best in STT.

 

In which case weapons guidance using LTWS may fall more into the category of technically possible, but not ideal.

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Yah, I'm actually curious how this works in real life. Wags says LTWS does not support missile guidance, but I think that's a oversimplification.

 

The Hornet never prevents you from launching a missile based on target data, you can maddog without a lock at all so I don't imagine it'll just say "nope" when you have a L&S designation in RWS/LTWS. Maybe it doesn't provide mid-course guidance at all in LTWS? Though from a technical standpoint I don't know why that would be the case, I would think it could.

 

My guess is it's more a continuum of track quality. The radar and weapons computer sends mid-course guidance updates to the AMRAAM with every update frame the target is in. This means the quality of mid-course guidance is better the more frequently the radar dish sweeps over the target. More updates means better tracking resolution which means faster and more efficient response to any maneuvers the target makes. This would mean that the quality of mid-course updates for an AMRAAM launch would be poor in RWS/LTWS, better in TWS, and best in STT.

 

In which case weapons guidance using LTWS may fall more into the category of technically possible, but not ideal.

This is what I think as well. TWS is useful for target management and trackfile quality, that's it. LTWS with a smaller scan volume can potentially work just as well, since all the AMRAAM needs is a point in space. The smaller scan volume simply guarantees faster target updates (I remember reading somewhere that one update per 3 seconds is "good enough"). TWS AUTO also centers on the L&S, which helps with a maneuvering target.

 

I've also read that the radar will automatically enter TWS AUTO if you launch an AIM-120 from RWS w/LTWS, but I have no idea if that's applicable to our OFP.

 

We had training with the AIM-120 with my squadron yesterday and one of the things I stressed was to make sure you have a good trackfile quality. The MC will generate a trackfile, but that doesn't necessarily correspond to the physical position of the target at all times, since the MC will extrapolate it between updates. A good trackfile quality (faster updates) will ensure that your target is where your radar thinks it is.

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No. As far as I know NCTR analysis requires direct beam reflection off the target's engine fan blades. I don't believe it's even technically possible to get a NCTR print from a scanning radar return, though this is a very complex subject that I'm not an expert in and much of the research in this field is classified anyway.

Makes sense, thanks! :thumbup:

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