Air refueling?

[Steel Jaw]

Control rates are automatically dampened with the AAR Door open. No need to switch to Cat III.

 

(Cat III only restricts your AOA anyways...)

 

 

Cat1/3 is not yet implemented in the DCS Viper AFAIK.

[Emmy]

I can definitely tell a huge difference between Cat 1 and Cat III right now. Turns on a dime in Cat 1 comparatively.

 

Agreed...

[Shadoware]

I can definitely tell a huge difference between Cat 1 and Cat III right now. Turns on a dime in Cat 1 comparatively.

 

 

Theres a difference already but CatI doesnt break your Aircraft yet it seems.

[Gunrun_KS]

Control rates are automatically dampened with the AAR Door open. No need to switch to Cat III.

 

(Cat III only restricts your AOA anyways...)

 

 

1. AOA

2. Roll rate

3. Reduced pilot rudder command limit

 

 

Cat 1 and 3 definitely work.

[Dee-Jay]

Hi Mower!

Cat1/3 is not yet implemented in the DCS Viper AFAIK.

It is ... but badly (CATIII is wrongly implemented).

Edited July 7, 2020 by Dee-Jay

[HoYa]

Air refuel

 

Can ANYONE mid air refuel in this thing !!!

 

I’ve connected once in a ton of times....

[randomTOTEN]

very easily,

I consider it the easiest to AAR with out of the AAR capable modules I own: A-10A/C, M2000-C, F/A-18C, F-16C, F-15C, Su-27/33, MiG-29.

[Shadoware]

One question: Is it good or bad to use trim while AR?

[sdslack]

For months I couldn't figure it out. Then I watched a video by Shifty Mover and a few other youtube vids and I just "got it". Ever since then it's been pretty easy. Now I've been practicing with asymmetric loads, different speeds. Just keep practicing and you WILL get it.

Can ANYONE mid air refuel in this thing !!!

 

I’ve connected once in a ton of times....

[sdslack]

very easily,

I consider it the easiest to AAR with out of the AAR capable modules I own: A-10A/C, M2000-C, F/A-18C, F-16C, F-15C, Su-27/33, MiG-29.

I feel the same way.

[Emmy]

One question: Is it good or bad to use trim while AR?

 

Shouldn’t need to trim at all, especially in pitch.

[Emmy]

Sure can. Quite easily...

[Shadoware]

I completed my first full refuel today. There were 3 or 4 disconnects though.

 

Setting my Y axis control curve to 18 was essential. In the Youtube Green Reapers channel, that guy use a curve set to 25!

[Dee-Jay]

The real challenge on F-16 about AAR:

 

 

 

Very "existing"! :thumbup:

[Viking 1-1]

Can ANYONE mid air refuel in this thing !!!

 

I’ve connected once in a ton of times....

 

I can. Takes practice, though. There is a reason why real pilots have to practice as well...

[Notso]

Im learning to air refuel and its hard!

 

I can get some fuel but not complete the refueling yet.

 

 

The harder part is to control the speed all the time.

 

Is there some HUD help to air refueling? The real F-16 has one HUD mode for this task?

 

I posted this just now in the Hornet forum, but it's worth repeating here:

 

One thing I would say to all the guys who are struggling to refuel on any jet whether it is the Hornet, Viper or A-10...... how much Formation practice are you doing outside of trying to get on the hose or the boom? I'm betting almost zero if you were really honest with yourselves.

 

AAR is nothing more than close formation flying. Every single skill learned in flying close Form with another a/c will directly transfer to becoming good at AAR. In fact, it's a prerequisite that a young pilot learns and demonstrates solid formation flying LONG before he/she is ever allowed anywhere near a tanker.

 

My recommendation is to start with a similar aircraft as yours. Set a wingman or other AI up in a race track orbit somewhere and then rejoin on its wing and fly spread formation and then when you get comfortable, move in closer until you can comfortably fly fingertip position and concentrate on keeping in the same relative fore-aft and up-down position on the AI wing. That will teach you everything you need to know about how to refuel. It will instill the muscle memory for both the throttle and the stick and how much of each you need to make small corrections. If you can do that (fly fingertip formation) every time and it becomes 2nd nature - then honestly AAR is easy.

 

Edit to add: One thing I do is if I haven't done AAR in a while is to rejoin to the tankers wing and just sit there and fly some close formation for a few minutes to warm up my hands and get a feel for speed, throttle movements etc required to stay in position. I find my first time success rate is huge compared to just trying to jump right onto the hose/boom cold if I haven't practiced it in a while.

[JUICE-AWG]

 

 

 

 

Deadzone and Curves are different for everyone...set them up to make it great for you bud!

[probad]

also bobbing about half a mile from a guy doesnt count for 'i can fly formation'

[Emmy]

I posted this just now in the Hornet forum, but it's worth repeating here:

 

One thing I would say to all the guys who are struggling to refuel on any jet whether it is the Hornet, Viper or A-10...... how much Formation practice are you doing outside of trying to get on the hose or the boom? I'm betting almost zero if you were really honest with yourselves.

 

AAR is nothing more than close formation flying. Every single skill learned in flying close Form with another a/c will directly transfer to becoming good at AAR. In fact, it's a prerequisite that a young pilot learns and demonstrates solid formation flying LONG before he/she is ever allowed anywhere near a tanker.

 

My recommendation is to start with a similar aircraft as yours. Set a wingman or other AI up in a race track orbit somewhere and then rejoin on its wing and fly spread formation and then when you get comfortable, move in closer until you can comfortably fly fingertip position and concentrate on keeping in the same relative fore-aft and up-down position on the AI wing. That will teach you everything you need to know about how to refuel. It will instill the muscle memory for both the throttle and the stick and how much of each you need to make small corrections. If you can do that (fly fingertip formation) every time and it becomes 2nd nature - then honestly AAR is easy.

 

Edit to add: One thing I do is if I haven't done AAR in a while is to rejoin to the tankers wing and just sit there and fly some close formation for a few minutes to warm up my hands and get a feel for speed, throttle movements etc required to stay in position. I find my first time success rate is huge compared to just trying to jump right onto the hose/boom cold if I haven't practiced it in a while.

 

 

Every. Bit. Of. This.

[Syndrome]

Gotta say AAR is tough when you start out, practice really helps. It's mostly about getting fine control of the throttle. The fine control of the stick will come especially if you use light finger tips, but if you can't get your speed controlled, it can easily lead to PIOs that exacerbate bad stick inputs.

 

Hardware also matters. My old 16000 thrustmaster throttle was massively improved with nyogel. I hate to say it, AAR does have a P2W component, since getting a high quality hotas REALLY helps, probably more than is fair. After upgrading my throttle, AAR went from "smoke from the ears" frustrating to almost trivially easy and relaxing.

 

That being said, you can "fake" fine control with any hotas by toggling the speedbrake to quickly change speed by fractions of a knot/hr.

[Notso]

Gotta say AAR is tough when you start out, practice really helps. It's mostly about getting fine control of the throttle. The fine control of the stick will come especially if you use light finger tips, but if you can't get your speed controlled, it can easily lead to PIOs that exacerbate bad stick inputs.

 

Hardware also matters. My old 16000 thrustmaster throttle was massively improved with nyogel. I hate to say it, AAR does have a P2W component, since getting a high quality hotas REALLY helps, probably more than is fair. After upgrading my throttle, AAR went from "smoke from the ears" frustrating to almost trivially easy and relaxing.

 

That being said, you can "fake" fine control with any hotas by toggling the speedbrake to quickly change speed by fractions of a knot/hr.

 

I don't know about toggling the speedbrake. That would make for far greater changes and make it less controllable than fine throttle control would. However, I have found that like IRL, just cracking the speedbrake a bit - especially if you're light and/or clean will make the throttle control a bit easier. I find that if you're clean, that bit of extra drag will make the inputs easy to control because it causes you to need a bit of extra throttle input. It's hard to explain, but sometimes the throttle movements needed on a light/slick A/C are too small. YMMV

[Syndrome]

I don't know about toggling the speedbrake. That would make for far greater changes and make it less controllable than fine throttle control would. However, I have found that like IRL, just cracking the speedbrake a bit - especially if you're light and/or clean will make the throttle control a bit easier. I find that if you're clean, that bit of extra drag will make the inputs easy to control because it causes you to need a bit of extra throttle input. It's hard to explain, but sometimes the throttle movements needed on a light/slick A/C are too small. YMMV

 

Yeah, I hear ya, speedbrake def helps with lighter setups. To clarify, since I was vague before, by "toggling" I meant switching back and forth between two speedbrake settings. Unfortunately there is no speedbrake axis so the toggle depends on how long you hold the Extend and Retract buttons.

 

The main reason I use the speedbrakes for fine adj on a less sensitive Hotas is because the change in speed is more immediate than using the throttle because there is a significant delay in engine response time. So if you over correct with speedbrake, you can make a small rapid change to the speedbrake angle without overshooting/undershooting the greenzone like you might with a delayed over-correction on a throttle response.

 

With a more sensitive Hotas, you can just make smaller throttle changes and wait it out without worries. My current throttle can make increments of 1/5 to 1/3 of a knot/hr. By "toggling" the speed brake between 2 settings, I can get momentary 1/2 knot/hr increments. With the a throttle like a TWCS, I can get just under 1 knot/hr increments with nyogel, but with a significant delay.

[Notso]

Yeah, I hear ya, speedbrake def helps with lighter setups. To clarify, since I was vague before, by "toggling" I meant switching back and forth between two speedbrake settings. Unfortunately there is no speedbrake axis so the toggle depends on how long you hold the Extend and Retract buttons.

 

The main reason I use the speedbrakes for fine adj on a less sensitive Hotas is because the change in speed is more immediate than using the throttle because there is a significant delay in engine response time. So if you over correct with speedbrake, you can make a small rapid change to the speedbrake angle without overshooting/undershooting the greenzone like you might with a delayed over-correction on a throttle response.

 

With a more sensitive Hotas, you can just make smaller throttle changes and wait it out without worries. My current throttle can make increments of 1/5 to 1/3 of a knot/hr. By "toggling" the speed brake between 2 settings, I can get momentary 1/2 knot/hr increments. With the a throttle like a TWCS, I can get just under 1 knot/hr increments with nyogel, but with a significant delay.

 

Understood. What you should normally do IF you use the speedbrake is to open it about a 1/4 open. Just a quick hold and release just to get it out into the airstream and add a bit of drag. And then leave it there and don't touch it.

 

I was playing with the supercarrier for the first time last night (very cool btw) and had to go tank up so I could continue with approaches. I was struggling to stay on the boom on the S3 as I've been out of practice. Tiny throttle movements were getting me into too large of a correction because I was REALLY light (like 1500lbs of gas and clean). And then I remembered my own advice to crack open the SB. Duh! What a huge difference it made. I was able to get on the basket and stay there with no issues for the rest of the offload.

 

It also goes to show what a perishable skill this is. Constant practice is required no matter how good you think you are at something.

[SmoglessPanic]

very easily,

I consider it the easiest to AAR with out of the AAR capable modules I own: A-10A/C, M2000-C, F/A-18C, F-16C, F-15C, Su-27/33, MiG-29.

 

Agreed.

 

I got the basic hang of AAR in the Su-33, then moved on to the Hornet. I absolutely hate the basket. Once the F-16 rolled around it was easy as pie.

[smire666]

Well, sometimes it' s not easy even in the real life... Look at YTube, keywords F16 Netherland tries refuel... Look at that guy, what he' s doing...