Autopilot or Level flight option at WW2 aircraft

[jorgesoo]

Is there an option for some kind of autopilot or level flight function for WW2 fighters.-

It should be useful at long range flights

[Mike_Romeo]

I dont think ww2 fighters had autopilots. If I remember correct, they only use trim to levelflight.

[kengou]

This game aims to faithfully simulate the real thing as closely as possible. If it didn’t have an autopilot then they shouldn’t simulate one.

[jorgesoo]

This game aims to faithfully simulate the real thing as closely as possible. If it didn’t have an autopilot then they shouldn’t simulate one.

 

I am aware that most single seated WW2 fighters had no AP, but the game offers two options, simulator and game, so within the second option it can perfectly be simulated as all the other non realistic functions it has

[RustBelt]

This game aims to faithfully simulate the real thing as closely as possible. If it didn’t have an autopilot then they shouldn’t simulate one.

 

They also didn't have Rudder Helpers.....and yet....

[razo+r]

Some WWII planes had autopilot, that includes also a few 109s (and maybe 190s iirc). So the idea is not totally unrealistic

[DimSim]

This should be offered if not already, as cheat or helper style option for two reasons:

 

1) For casual players because casual players also exist and pay money to be entertained. Long straight flights can make use of auto pilot + time acceleration.

 

2) For serious players needing to adjust cockpit, look at map or other activity. This helps aircraft remain steady without careful hands on stick. It compliments features like Pause.

 

Remember even real planes are not controlled with a $90 plastic joystick and IBM 101 keyboard, nor are real pilots equipped with one two dimensional eye ball and 90deg field of view. So give computer users a break and help them control their simulated aircraft.

[Helles Belle]

This game aims to faithfully simulate the real thing as closely as possible. If it didn’t have an autopilot then they shouldn’t simulate one.

 

Did the real life Huey UH-1H have one?

[Northstar98]

The reason the UH-1H has one is because it doesn't have multi-crew functionality (yet), this makes it difficult if the player wishes to control the door gunners. You can't really compare the 2, when the only position available for our current set of warbirds/propeller planes is the pilot.

 

I guess I'm okay with autopilots being offered as cheats, especially for 'game' mode (like takeoff assistance and auto-rudder) so long as it can be enforced on/off by mission designers.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Northstar98

[ARM505]

There are quite a few reasons why keeping a RL aircraft cruising in straight and level flight is easier than a sim:

1) Peripheral vision is easier IRL. Even when head down, you can see the horizon out the corner of your eyes.

2) Seat of the pants. IRL, you are cued when the aircraft does something bouncy, in sims you can be pulling a 6G barrel roll and be unaware of it.

3) Trimming. Real aircraft are generally easier to trim for straight and level, it tends to all even out. Most true for slower, piston engined, straight winged (no sweepback) aircraft.

4) Control feel. In sims, your stick doesn't harden up with airspeed. IRL, you fly straight and level with the tiniest movement of the stick, more like just a pressure which gives excellent feedback. This isn't easy at all in sims, where the spring force is constant, and a tiny movement which feels like nothing can make your aircraft go wild.

 

I would therefore have no problem for a simple wing leveller (IL2:BoX has this for example). It would make sense. Wing levellers do not take heading into account, it just keeps the wings level. It's not really a cheat, doesn't confer much advantage at all (I would argue none), makes the workload more in line with RL since long periods of S&L are easier IRL compared to sims, esp with time compression (see, there's another sim thing, we do it all the time).

[toutenglisse]

For what it worth here is a little "trick" I use sometimes in FW190A8, that only has pitch trim : for straight flight I trim in pitch, then I adjust rudder to counter roll and keep the wings leveled, and I press "Esc" on keyboard (to pause sim, only works for SP...).

Then I press "Esc" again after releasing pressure on rudder, so the previous rudder position is kept when sim is unpaused.

Now as long as I don't touch rudder I can fly leveled, just using roll left/right with stick to make adjustments in heading. Touching rudders recenter them instantly.

[kengou]

Did the real life Huey UH-1H have one?

The "autopilot" in the Huey is a simulation of the co-pilot taking the controls. He can be commanded to orbit or cruise straight and level. It's rudimentary but it's a simulation of something the real pilot would have access to.

[marcost]

For what it worth here is a little "trick" I use sometimes in FW190A8, that only has pitch trim : for straight flight I trim in pitch, then I adjust rudder to counter roll and keep the wings leveled, and I press "Esc" on keyboard (to pause sim, only works for SP...).

Then I press "Esc" again after releasing pressure on rudder, so the previous rudder position is kept when sim is unpaused.

Now as long as I don't touch rudder I can fly leveled, just using roll left/right with stick to make adjustments in heading. Touching rudders recenter them instantly.

 

Good tip, will try it - thanks!

[Shahdoh]

Real mustang pilots (as well as many other warbirds) will tell you, that even as beautiful a flying aircraft as they are, they are still hands on aircraft nearly full time. You can not expect to take your hands off the stick for more than 30 seconds or so even in the best conditions. For game modes and assists, sure, but ED is trying to give as real an experience as they can for the price of a game.

[marcost]

For me personally, the accessibility of DCS is heavily dependent on one thing - my time.

 

I don't have that much spare time to fly, so any 'unreal' aids that make the sim more accessible during the time that I do have, will get my vote. I've been a sim flyer for 20+ years, I want the immersion from complexity/authenticity and I'm not looking for arcade action in any way. Just a bit of 'scaleability' that can be tailored to my time and ability.

 

Example - learning to taxi, takeoff and land in the Spitfire is a real art. Yes I want to learn how to do it properly, but do I want to spend all of my limited time without even getting it off the ground? No. Would I use an autopilot to get airborne and into the action when I don't have much time and before I file the module in the 'too hard' bin? Yes.

 

Here's the commercial significance - would the time investment consideration stop me from buying another module - yes.

 

We all have different backgrounds, circumstances, abilities and limitations. Aids make this great sim more accessible to more people, which means more money spent, which means faster development.

 

Just my opinion and experience.

 

Regards,

 

Mac

[Flyingfrog]

The "autopilot" in the Huey is a simulation of the co-pilot taking the controls. He can be commanded to orbit or cruise straight and level. It's rudimentary but it's a simulation of something the real pilot would have access to.

 

 

Right, the Huey is a 2 crew helicopter. It would be nice to have an upgrade version of the Huey with a real AI copilot like the F14.

[Mars Exulte]

For me personally, the accessibility of DCS is heavily dependent on one thing - my time.

 

I don't have that much spare time to fly, so any 'unreal' aids that make the sim more accessible during the time that I do have, will get my vote. I've been a sim flyer for 20+ years, I want the immersion from complexity/authenticity and I'm not looking for arcade action in any way. Just a bit of 'scaleability' that can be tailored to my time and ability.

 

Example - learning to taxi, takeoff and land in the Spitfire is a real art. Yes I want to learn how to do it properly, but do I want to spend all of my limited time without even getting it off the ground? No. Would I use an autopilot to get airborne and into the action when I don't have much time and before I file the module in the 'too hard' bin? Yes.

 

Here's the commercial significance - would the time investment consideration stop me from buying another module - yes.

 

We all have different backgrounds, circumstances, abilities and limitations. Aids make this great sim more accessible to more people, which means more money spent, which means faster development.

 

Just my opinion and experience.

 

Regards,

 

Mac

So... you've got time to learn complex engine management, but not how to get off the ground, which is arguably the easiest and first thing anybody should learn? It doesn't take ''all your time'' it should only take a couple attempts to figure out.

 

I understand wanting a casual sim experience, nothing wrong with that... Il-2, War Thunder, etc all appeal to that and good stuff I've played too... I absolutely do not understand spending $40-80 on a fully simulated aircraft, just so people can start toggling off 90% of what is DCS' draw in the first place... it's like... buy the simpler game in the first place or something. Exception : there aren't any other jet games, really, afaik, so you're kinda stuck in that category, but WWII there's definitely options.

 

I dunno, whatever, yo

[draconus]

[...]I'm not looking for arcade action in any way.

Yet you do.

 

Would I use an autopilot to get airborne and into the action when I don't have much time and before I file the module in the 'too hard' bin? Yes.

 

It's already in game. You start airborne in the AO like in Instant Actions missions. It's not even a cheat. You decide where and when the simulation begins and ends. No need to ever take off or land if you prefer only flying part.

[X-31_VECTOR]

For me personally, the accessibility of DCS is heavily dependent on one thing - my time.

 

I don't have that much spare time to fly, so any 'unreal' aids that make the sim more accessible during the time that I do have, will get my vote.

 

Well said!

 

The nice thing about such features (when offered) is that they are optional. For those of us who want to fly formation for an hour en route to a target (when we have the time), we can. But if having the option for an autopilot allows someone to fly the sim more frequently, enjoy it more, and hence buy more modules, I don't think the inclusion in any way hurts those of us who may choose not to use them. (I'm speaking in single-player context only.)

 

I note that you ended your post with "Just my opinion," and I think that's really the point -- no one can tell you that you are wrong. Too often I think we tend here to respond to someone's statement of preference not just by explaining our own (different) preference, but instead by suggesting the poster's preference is wrong/dumb/ignorant. We can all want different things without any of us being wrong.

[SharpeXB]

No! This is a simulation! If a plane didn’t have an autopilot then it shouldn’t have one in DCS! :doh:

[X-31_VECTOR]

No! This is a simulation! If a plane didn’t have an autopilot then it shouldn’t have one in DCS! :doh:

 

That's why I always use piddle packs during long flights rather than pause and go to the bathroom. My girlfriend is so judgmental about it... she just doesn't get DCS. :)

[razo+r]

No! This is a simulation! If a plane didn’t have an autopilot then it shouldn’t have one in DCS! :doh:

 

It is a game. Even ED labels it as a game.

 

If it would be a simulation many things would be different compared with the current version.

[grafspee]

It does not matter, if it is simulation or game or both.

It would be only one small option in realism page that's it, just exactly same like labels, unlimited ammo or fuel which are available right now.

if you don't like it, just turn it off

Edited July 1, 2020 by grafspee

[Ala13_ManOWar]

When MAC is out there that's your solution. I don't get why people keep thinking a simulation should implement more arcadish elements.

 

 

S!

[SharpeXB]

Where are you flying that you need an autopilot? Even the Big Show or Epsom campaigns with realistic distances aren’t that far to go. There’s hardly any part of a realistic WWII fighter op in the sim that involves just flying straight and level for prolonged periods. The maps aren’t big enough to fly to Berlin and back. Most of the flight across the channel you’ll spend climbing etc.

 

It’s amazing that ED feels or gets feedback that they need all these “assists” like game mode, auto start, unlimited ammo and fuel. It’s like borrowing all the arcade gamey features thinking that they might scare away casual players. But those casual players are all on War Thunder. Why buy a $90 module and then press the easy keys to watch it start itself? That’s a waste of $90.

Edited July 1, 2020 by SharpeXB