Hornet Dogfight Tactics

[LtMacGowan]

"There's an old fighter pilot saying-"Don't fight the way your enemy wants you to fight"" Well what I want to know is HOW does the enemy want me to fight?

 

Something really simple like MiG 29 at 25,000ft + Do this, 15-25,000ft do that, under 15,000 do this and never do that, vs MiG 25, MiG 21, M-2000C, etc etc.

 

I'm getting the idea that I should not try and enter a climbing fight with the MiG 21 but what is my best altitude to engage him? Whats his best altitude to engage me? and same with other planes.

[Harker]

"There's an old fighter pilot saying-"Don't fight the way your enemy wants you to fight"" Well what I want to know is HOW does the enemy want me to fight?

 

Something really simple like MiG 29 at 25,000ft + Do this, 15-25,000ft do that, under 15,000 do this and never do that, vs MiG 25, MiG 21, M-2000C, etc etc.

 

I'm getting the idea that I should not try and enter a climbing fight with the MiG 21 but what is my best altitude to engage him? Whats his best altitude to engage me? and same with other planes.

It depends on your opponent. An F-16 pilot, for example, should want to go for a two circle fight against a Hornet. Don't let him drag you into one.

[Odey]

"There's an old fighter pilot saying-"Don't fight the way your enemy wants you to fight"" Well what I want to know is HOW does the enemy want me to fight?

 

Something really simple like MiG 29 at 25,000ft + Do this, 15-25,000ft do that, under 15,000 do this and never do that, vs MiG 25, MiG 21, M-2000C, etc etc.

 

I'm getting the idea that I should not try and enter a climbing fight with the MiG 21 but what is my best altitude to engage him? Whats his best altitude to engage me? and same with other planes.

 

Probably more relevant is learning what not to do. There's no "formulaic" approach to BFM. There's theory. I'm sure you have heard plenty enough about 1 circle vs. 2 circle. Lead, lag and pure pursuit. Rate vs. Radius. It's all relevant but it's not like baking a cake. There is no set order.. The only absolute is the merge is the first. After that ? It take lots and I mean lots of practice. There's so much to process only experience will allow to build the skill set that's required. From energy state to angles. Not only do you have to do this yourself but you need to do the same for the adversary. Read up on theory. Finding material with illustrations is helpful. YouTube is a good source too. If you don't have Tacview get it. It will allow you to dissect every turn of the fight and compare it to BFM thoery and find the mistakes you or the adversary made. Just remember loosing is part of learning. Eventually, you'll find yourself not loosing. Good luck.

[PL_Harpoon]

I agree with Odey here.

 

There are no dogmas in dogfighting.

 

 

The key in my opinion is to learn all the relevant techniques (1vs2 circle fight, lead/lag/straight pursuit, energy management, scissors, overshoots etc.) and learn to ability to decide when to use them.

 

 

I think that while it is important to know your aircraft (and your enemy's) capabilities and limitations you may run the risk of being "too rigid" in your technique.

[Notso]

It depends on your opponent. An F-16 pilot, for example, should want to go for a two circle fight against a Hornet. Don't let him drag you into one.

 

True. But no matter what your plan is.... the last guy to turn sets the fight to either a 1 or 2 turn fight.

 

So you might not want to go 2-circle, but the bandit could turn late or reverse and force a 2-circle. You have to know how to fight both just in case you don't get the choice.

[alexscott292]

Not quite that simple.

 

If you’re last to turn by two seconds you’ve either extended your radius or slowed your rate. Against someone turning 21 degrees per second that means a hell of a disadvantage in a 2-circle or a big chunk of radius at 400 knots.

[Thumper1911]

Dark hair with mustache. We (a local informal club we had) were all flying Falcon 3.0 at a thing in san mateo with the owner of thrustmaster, who was friends with this fighter pilot guy from working on link 16 project.

 

They asked us to be in the video.

[Notso]

Not quite that simple.

 

If you’re last to turn by two seconds you’ve either extended your radius or slowed your rate. Against someone turning 21 degrees per second that means a hell of a disadvantage in a 2-circle or a big chunk of radius at 400 knots.

 

Haha, I didn't say it was a *good* idea to reverse or delay the turn, just that the last guy to turn determines the type fight.

[Odey]

It's pretty interesting how diverse the options in BFM. You can try to gain space heading into the merge to force a 1 circle. Use extreme AOA and rate to take snapshots. My all time favorite is F-15's doing double emmelmanns and sitting purched ready to pounce. Fun stuff.

[VpR81]

I think “Fighter Combat” is free as a PDF. I know for sure “In Pursuit” is. Both good reads.

 

May be, i don't know. I prefer real books anyways, so i don't even check for PDFs or ebooks on topics i want to learn something off. Still a good hint for ppl with a short budget!

[Meyomyx]

If real life is like DCS, most Hornet pilots must get shot down whilst trying to manage the MFD's / radar settings ;) ...

[Zad Fnark]

Wow, back to the Falcon4.0 patch 1.08 days. I see Pete, where's Louie ?

 

Actually... Falcon 3.0

[oldcrusty]

Gonky just posted this one.

 

For folks that have been flying a lot of A/A in DCS Hornet it probably feels like they would have done similar moves against this 'beast'.

 

I marked it at 7:15. The first part of the vid is just a basic background info... still might want to watch the whole thing.

 

[gavagai]

This might sound silly but there isn't much info on how to properly engage different fighters at close range say within 5 miles. I was doing the DACT MiG 21 vs F/A-18 1 on 1 and I was getting beat in a turning fight by a MiG-21 it was embarassing

 

What are the best altitudes to engage at, and how should I engage? Turn and burn? or Climb and dive?

 

I was trying to turn into the MiG to get on his six and He'd stay inside the turn until I was nearing stall speed.

 

You need to purchase and fly the Mig-21 to see for yourself how outlandish this sounds.

 

If you're ever low and slow against a Mig-21, just go vertical before you overshoot. He'll never be able to follow.

[Harker]

You need to purchase and fly the Mig-21 to see for yourself how outlandish this sounds.

 

If you're ever low and slow against a Mig-21, just go vertical before you overshoot. He'll never be able to follow.

DCS AI flight model at work here

[gavagai]

DCS AI flight model at work here

 

No.

[Harker]

No.

I assumed that the OP was struggling with the Mig-21 because of how different the AI flies compared to a player controlled aircraft. Infinite energy and all that. An AI MiG-21 can go vertical just fine.

[gavagai]

My bad, I get your point now.