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[ NO BUG - USER ERROR]Autopilot no longer working


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There IS at least one very huge bug.

 

Do the following:

 

- Enter straight and level flight at about 450 kts.

- Trim to hold straight and level flight without controls inputs.

- Engage AFC and Alt Hold.

- Use trim hat to enter in the the tightest turn AFC will allow -- you can get to about 45° bank I think.

- Disengage AFC and using controls (no trim) to return to straight and level flight.

- Release controls and allow them to return to the neutral center positions and note the results.

 

Your nose will climb and may start to turn in the direction you turn with ARC.

 

Either trimming is not disengaged while AFC is active, or RB is using trim to steer the aircraft. When your leave AFC trim remains as it was in AFC.

 

It used to be the perfect method to trim your aircraft for straight and level flight that you simply enageed AFC and Alt Hold and then disengage AFC and your aircraft was perfectly trimmed.

 

To return to default neutral trim, hit emergency SAAHS disengage and everything is reaset.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

System Specs.

[TABLE]System board ... MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK

CPU ............ Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz per OC Genie

CPU cooling .... Noctua NH-D15

Memory ......... 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw

PSU ............ Corsair AX860i PSU

Graphics card .. Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme

System disk .... SanDisk Extreme PRO 480GB SSD

Monitor ........ ASUS MG279Q, 27"

VR ............. Oculus Rift CV1[/TABLE]

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I have to say I find the new system to be worse than the original. If you don't put enough stick pressure to disengage AFC, it retrims the aircraft for your new roll angle. I often find on approach to bombing the AFC will initally stay engaged, retrim me for some odd angle before disengaging and as a result I am usually out of balance on an attack run.

 

 

I wonder if this is simulating real behaviour, I could understand trimming for roll when initially engaging AFC and you are banked at certain roll angle which is over threshold for straight and level -- you would need this functionality to maintain orbits. However AFC retriming from level flight to a new roll angle seems like it is undesirable behaviour to me.

 

 

In other words:

 

 

 

* Desirable: Bank, enable AFC -> AFC trims aircraft for current bank angle.

* Undesirable: Straight and level, enable AFC -> AFC trims aircraft for straight and level. Input roll pressure, AFC retrims for new bank angle.

 

 

 

 

And yes I'm aware of the change that AFC retrims on low pressure stick inputs, and I agree this is handy for adjusting pitch. But roll? Not so much.


Edited by Idle_Wild
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There IS at least one very huge bug.

 

Either trimming is not disengaged while AFC is active, or RB is using trim to steer the aircraft. When your leave AFC trim remains as it was in AFC.

 

It used to be the perfect method to trim your aircraft for straight and level flight that you simply enageed AFC and Alt Hold and then disengage AFC and your aircraft was perfectly trimmed.

 

The AFC automatically controls the trim to hold attitudes, so when you disengage the AFC the trim will be where it was set by AFC. This is correct behaviour. You should also always be trimming the aircraft out before engaging AFC.

 

"Just as in SAS mode maneuvering, the pilot must trim out any stick forces prior to releasing the stick."

 

I have to say I find the new system to be worse than the original. If you don't put enough stick pressure to disengage AFC, it retrims the aircraft for your new roll angle. I often find on approach to bombing the AFC will initally stay engaged, retrim me for some odd angle before disengaging and as a result I am usually out of balance on an attack run.

 

 

I wonder if this is simulating real behaviour, I could understand trimming for roll when initially engaging AFC and you are banked at certain roll angle which is over threshold for straight and level -- you would need this functionality to maintain orbits. However AFC retriming from level flight to a new roll angle seems like it is undesirable behaviour to me.

 

 

In other words:

 

 

 

* Desirable: Bank, enable AFC -> AFC trims aircraft for current bank angle.

* Undesirable: Straight and level, enable AFC -> AFC trims aircraft for straight and level. Input roll pressure, AFC retrims for new bank angle.

 

 

 

 

And yes I'm aware of the change that AFC retrims on low pressure stick inputs, and I agree this is handy for adjusting pitch. But roll? Not so much.

 

 

That's how it's supposed to work, and as above you should always be trimming out the aircraft before engaging the AFC.

 

"At airspeeds above 50 knots, the AFC will capture and hold pitch attitudes in the ±30° range and roll attitudes within ±60° which are outside of the ±5° range about wings level."

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The AFC automatically controls the trim to hold attitudes, so when you disengage the AFC the trim will be where it was set by AFC. This is correct behaviour. You should also always be trimming the aircraft out before engaging AFC.

 

"Just as in SAS mode maneuvering, the pilot must trim out any stick forces prior to releasing the stick."

 

Says who?!

 

Just like you do NOT use trim to bank your aircraft it is absolutely senseless for AFC to use trim to do the same.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

System Specs.

[TABLE]System board ... MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK

CPU ............ Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz per OC Genie

CPU cooling .... Noctua NH-D15

Memory ......... 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw

PSU ............ Corsair AX860i PSU

Graphics card .. Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme

System disk .... SanDisk Extreme PRO 480GB SSD

Monitor ........ ASUS MG279Q, 27"

VR ............. Oculus Rift CV1[/TABLE]

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Says who?!

 

Just like you do NOT use trim to bank your aircraft it is absolutely senseless for AFC to use trim to do the same.

 

It's straight out of thel A1-AV8BB-NFM-000 manual.

 

"Automatic pitch and roll trim are provided the AFC mode. The automatic trim tracks the aircraft pitch and roll changes to keep the series servo actuators close to their neutral positions an effort to minimize disengage transients. On aircraft with departure resistance, the lateral stick to aileron interconnect may prevent the roll auto trim from keeping the aileron series servos near the center of the ±6° range. The automatic trim rates correspond to approximately 0.25° per second stabilator and aileron surface rates and cause the control stick to move in the direction the trim change."

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AFC now just continues to pull trim back until it can't trim back any more.

 

 

So for me, yes, Autopilot is incredibly broken.

 

 

I can sit there and fight it and trim down, and it will trim down, but as soon as I let go it just trims alllllllllllllllllllll the way back.

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Guys, it works without any issue - autopilot and autopilot alt hold.

 

Please read manual how it works or/and whole this topic. If you have uncalibrated joystick or broken (even a little) one of axis you will have the problem. You can check and increase yours deadzones X and Y.

No this issue on TH Warthog for example (I have 3% of deadzone too).


Edited by YoYo

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Autopilot attitude and altitude hold is working for me using FFB and a MSFFB2 (0 deadzone, 0 curvature, 1:1 saturation).

 

Tested 360 KIAS @ 12,000 ft, Open Beta 2.5.6.52196

i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 32GB DDR4, RTX2070 Super 8GB, 1TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 1+1TB SSD, MSFFB2 joystick, X52 Pro Throttle, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080

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It works as long as you only fly straight and level.

 

Read the previous descriptions of what's not working.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

System Specs.

[TABLE]System board ... MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK

CPU ............ Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz per OC Genie

CPU cooling .... Noctua NH-D15

Memory ......... 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw

PSU ............ Corsair AX860i PSU

Graphics card .. Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme

System disk .... SanDisk Extreme PRO 480GB SSD

Monitor ........ ASUS MG279Q, 27"

VR ............. Oculus Rift CV1[/TABLE]

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It's straight out of thel A1-AV8BB-NFM-000 manual.

 

"Automatic pitch and roll trim are provided the AFC mode. The automatic trim tracks the aircraft pitch and roll changes to keep the series servo actuators close to their neutral positions an effort to minimize disengage transients. On aircraft with departure resistance, the lateral stick to aileron interconnect may prevent the roll auto trim from keeping the aileron series servos near the center of the ±6° range. The automatic trim rates correspond to approximately 0.25° per second stabilator and aileron surface rates and cause the control stick to move in the direction the trim change."

 

I had to find time to look this up for myself. The first sentence states exactly what I was talking about, "Automatic pitch and roll trim are provided the AFC mode. The automatic trim tracks the aircraft pitch and roll changes to keep the series servo actuators close to their neutral positions an effort to minimize disengage transients". IE when you disengage, the aircraft doesn't go and to some wonky crap like it's doing now.

When you hit the wrong button on take-off

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

System Specs.

[TABLE]System board ... MSI X99A GAMING 9 ACK

CPU ............ Intel Core i7-5820K @ 3800MHz per OC Genie

CPU cooling .... Noctua NH-D15

Memory ......... 16GB DDR4-3000 G.Skill Ripjaw

PSU ............ Corsair AX860i PSU

Graphics card .. Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Amp! Extreme

System disk .... SanDisk Extreme PRO 480GB SSD

Monitor ........ ASUS MG279Q, 27"

VR ............. Oculus Rift CV1[/TABLE]

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Works OK for me, attitude and alt hold.

 

 

No deadzones, but calibration must be spot on.

 

 

..


Edited by Holbeach

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Re-calibrate your joystick and/or increase your deadzones.

 

 

Why would my stick which is completely fine have anything to do with pulling trim?

 

The system worked just fine. Now it does not.

I can fly level-ish hands-free until a roll eventually creeps up; but as soon as I flip that AFC switch it just noses up and keeps nosing up until there's no trim left in the system.

 

It just pulls trim and continues to pull trim, no input BESIDES trim forward will combat it. Alt hold won't even engage because it keeps pulling trim.

 

 

Never have I ever had this issue until this patch, so it most certainly is not a "me" problem.


Edited by XCNuse
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Why would my stick which is completely fine have anything to do with pulling trim?

 

The system worked just fine. Now it does not.

I can fly level-ish hands-free until a roll eventually creeps up; but as soon as I flip that AFC switch it just noses up and keeps nosing up until there's no trim left in the system.

 

It just pulls trim and continues to pull trim, no input BESIDES trim forward will combat it. Alt hold won't even engage because it keeps pulling trim.

 

 

Never have I ever had this issue until this patch, so it most certainly is not a "me" problem.

 

Please can you attach a track file and/or video of this issue so the community/devs can better help you?

 

Many thanks

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AFC works well my end... the latest changes are an improvement and more like I would expect it should be - before it would disengage at the slightest whim which I assumed was my end running a high res stick with no centre cams - had to use a large deadzone then but not now.

 

 

Mostly fly NOE low level interdiction at 420 knots 200'...

 

Maybe there is an element of hardware given such different reports.

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Sometimes if I'm lucky it will roll over instead of just trimming back as far as it can go until it runs out of trim.

 

 

Track attached.

 

 

Again, I'm not sure how a switch can be user error; either it's on and you fly straight until you move the stick and it D/C's

 

 

I can't even it altitude hold, it will never engage because it constantly pulls trim.

 

 

But I fail to see how one can get flipping a switch wrong.

 

 

Used to be that I could let go, and it would hold my pitch and fly wings level, or at a significant angle, and if I hit hold alt it would hold alt.

Now it just... holds the trim button back until I run out of airspeed.

Harrier broken AFC.trk


Edited by XCNuse
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For me, since the patch, AFC automatically puts me in a holding pattern/right turn. Alt hold will still hold me at the same alt, but turning on AFC always has the same effect of putting me in a right turn. Anyone else?

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Why would my stick which is completely fine have anything to do with pulling trim?

 

The system worked just fine. Now it does not.

I can fly level-ish hands-free until a roll eventually creeps up; but as soon as I flip that AFC switch it just noses up and keeps nosing up until there's no trim left in the system.

 

It just pulls trim and continues to pull trim, no input BESIDES trim forward will combat it. Alt hold won't even engage because it keeps pulling trim.

 

 

Never have I ever had this issue until this patch, so it most certainly is not a "me" problem.

 

If you had read the rest of this thread you would have seen that people were able to fix this problem by increasing their deadzones.

 

From the last patch notes: "Added ability for small stick movement to adjust AFC trim"

 

Before this patch with AFC engaged it basically ignored stick input until you added enough stick input to break out of AFC (which hid any neutral stick issues). With the corrected AFC; even though your deadzone may be the same, it is not big enough and as a result is taking this minor "stick input" and constantly adjusts the trim.

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Sometimes if I'm lucky it will roll over instead of just trimming back as far as it can go until it runs out of trim.

 

 

Track attached.

 

 

Again, I'm not sure how a switch can be user error; either it's on and you fly straight until you move the stick and it D/C's

 

 

I can't even it altitude hold, it will never engage because it constantly pulls trim.

 

 

But I fail to see how one can get flipping a switch wrong.

 

 

Used to be that I could let go, and it would hold my pitch and fly wings level, or at a significant angle, and if I hit hold alt it would hold alt.

Now it just... holds the trim button back until I run out of airspeed.

 

 

Have you calibrated your stick in Control Panel, as advised?

 

 

..

I7 2600K @ 3.8, CoolerMaster 212X, EVGA GTX 1070 8gb. RAM 16gb Corsair, 1kw PSU. 2 x WD SSD. 1 x Samsung M2 NVMe. 3 x HDD. Saitek X-52. Saitek Pro Flight pedals. CH Flight Sim yoke. TrackIR 5. Win 10 Pro. IIyama 1080p. MSAA x 2, SSAA x 1.5. Settings High. Harrier/Spitfire/Beaufighter/The Channel, fanboy..





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Why would my stick which is completely fine have anything to do with pulling trim?

 

The system worked just fine. Now it does not.

I can fly level-ish hands-free until a roll eventually creeps up; but as soon as I flip that AFC switch it just noses up and keeps nosing up until there's no trim left in the system.

 

It just pulls trim and continues to pull trim, no input BESIDES trim forward will combat it. Alt hold won't even engage because it keeps pulling trim.

 

 

Never have I ever had this issue until this patch, so it most certainly is not a "me" problem.

 

 

It's because the AFC behaviour changed. Previously AFC would ignore stick input up to a certain threshold, anything over the threshold would AFC would disengage. AFC would only retrim when it was initially engaged. So any incorrect deadzone settings which were allowing stick input were ignored, masking incorrect deadzone settings.

 

 

 

Now, while active AFC accepts stick input up to a certain threshold, and retrims your pitch/roll angle based on that input. So if your deadzone isn't big enough, a slight stick input will cause AFC to keep retrimming in the direction of the stick input and your pitch or roll will keep increasing as a result.

 

 

If you re-read the thread this has been explained a bunch of times already.


Edited by Idle_Wild
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The AFC automatically controls the trim to hold attitudes, so when you disengage the AFC the trim will be where it was set by AFC. This is correct behaviour. You should also always be trimming the aircraft out before engaging AFC.

 

"Just as in SAS mode maneuvering, the pilot must trim out any stick forces prior to releasing the stick."

 

 

 

 

That's how it's supposed to work, and as above you should always be trimming out the aircraft before engaging the AFC.

 

"At airspeeds above 50 knots, the AFC will capture and hold pitch attitudes in the ±30° range and roll attitudes within ±60° which are outside of the ±5° range about wings level."

 

 

All of that makes sense. Except it all appears to be talking about prior to engaging AFC, AFC capturing pitch/roll on engagement. Not AFC capturing roll forces while engaged. Is there anything which specifically confirms that?

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All of that makes sense. Except it all appears to be talking about prior to engaging AFC, AFC capturing pitch/roll on engagement. Not AFC capturing roll forces while engaged. Is there anything which specifically confirms that?

 

"The pilot can use the control stick and the manual trim switch to maneuver the aircraft and lock the AFC onto new pitch attitude, roll attitude and heading references without disengaging the AFC switch during the maneuvers."

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If that's how it's supposed to work, I would argue it is far too sensitive.

Having any kind of deadzone, especially one this big, now in my stick means I won't be able to AA refuel.

 

My new argument would be this:

This is a game, and everyone has different inputs from controllers to sticks.

 

 

WE, shouldn't be putting deadzones in our flight controls.

The AFC should either be logarithmic in nature, or have a built in deadzone itself.

 

 

 

but yes, putting a [large] deadzone in the middle does "fix" it, but I would hardly call this a fix, more of a crutch.

And the reason I state this is because it won't take but a little while until more people notice it and get fed up with this new functionality.

 

 

Putting a deadzone in the AFC on the programming side of thing is a very easy thing to do, and I would argue would be closer to how the aircraft would work in the real world anyway since it's a computer augmentation that intakes accelerations and vectors, not ... stick precision.


Edited by XCNuse
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If that's how it's supposed to work, I would argue it is far too sensitive.

Having any kind of deadzone, especially one this big, now in my stick means I won't be able to AA refuel.

 

My new argument would be this:

This is a game, and everyone has different inputs from controllers to sticks.

 

 

WE, shouldn't be putting deadzones in our flight controls.

The AFC should either be logarithmic in nature, or have a built in deadzone itself.

 

 

 

but yes, putting a [large] deadzone in the middle does "fix" it, but I would hardly call this a fix, more of a crutch.

And the reason I state this is because it won't take but a little while until more people notice it and get fed up with this new functionality.

 

 

Putting a deadzone in the AFC on the programming side of thing is a very easy thing to do, and I would argue would be closer to how the aircraft would work in the real world anyway since it's a computer augmentation that intakes accelerations and vectors, not ... stick precision.

 

 

As you seem to be reluctant to answer my question, I will say this only once.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with the game side.

 

 

I don't need a deadzone, because my stick is calibrated correctly. Is yours?

 

 

Over.

 

 

..

I7 2600K @ 3.8, CoolerMaster 212X, EVGA GTX 1070 8gb. RAM 16gb Corsair, 1kw PSU. 2 x WD SSD. 1 x Samsung M2 NVMe. 3 x HDD. Saitek X-52. Saitek Pro Flight pedals. CH Flight Sim yoke. TrackIR 5. Win 10 Pro. IIyama 1080p. MSAA x 2, SSAA x 1.5. Settings High. Harrier/Spitfire/Beaufighter/The Channel, fanboy..





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