Thank you ed.

[TempRyan]

I know ed gets a lot of hate, and I honestly hate reading it. But for what you guys have made and the work you put in to it. I'm happy with it. Shure things get broke but. It happens. People expect the best of the best, but dev's are still human. Mistakes are allowed. I haven't ben here long but I have spent a lot of money. But that dosent change my thoughts at all. All if my flight group loves what dcs is. And just have fun with it.

 

I've payed 80+ dollars on other games just for them to go free to play later. I've put years in to games just for there servers to shut down. Shit happens.

 

So I'm going to go ahead and apolgise for the people who think that everything has to be perfect in a game.

 

I'm probly not going to open this thread agine so I wont really see any replays. And honestly I dont care.

 

Just a thank you from a small guy, tired of seeing the hate.

[Oozler]

I am a relatively older guy so I recall a time prior to any computers or video games. I started playing flight sims with games like Red Baron and Aces Over Europe/Pacific and evolved through a bunch of the other ones as they came out(Janes etc). I say this to put a reference to my opinion(s).

 

I am amazed every time I fire up DCS and get in the cockpit of any of the planes. The way the game looks, the modelling of the planes in flight, blowing stuff up... The new super carrier? Are you kidding me? Awesome...

 

The crew at ED and their 3rd party developers are doing a good job and I am grateful every time I get to play DCS. Now with VR and a home made cockpit and super duper computer/controllers I am making my gaming dreams come true... And it is thanks to the hard work and dedication of ED and the DCS team.

 

Thank you for giving me joy and pleasure every time I play your wonderful game. I look forward to many many MANY more hours of fun and enjoyment.

[grammaton_feather]

OK, that's nice and all, however, the reality of game/simulation development is that people will get angry. Obviously there are degrees of anger. Wholly negative/hate rants are always a bad thing.

 

DCS is the best modern military flight sim currently. There are issues of course and people disagree about apparent develoment priorities.

 

DCS has improved a lot which is good, however... ultimately it's a very complex simulation (increasingly complex) running on 1 CPU core (a second core has minimal use).

 

The latest supercarrier release is groundbreaking... however... also adds even more performance burden and the only way to get performance in VR currently is by overclocking CPU to at least 5ghz. People are going to very great expense to chase VR performance... I've seen 2080Ti users who want to rush to buy a 3000 series to gain VR performance in DCS.

 

The truth is that as great as DCS is overall... the performance is a big issue. Being tied to 1 core is a big issue. DX11 API bottleneck is a big issue and in ED's own words it's going to take a long time for Vulkan to arrive and they don't know what performance gain that will bring.

 

The reality is that shifting to Vulkan won't be a cure-all since the simulation will still be running on one CPU core.

 

Currently VR users are relying on VR driver-level motion-smoothing tricks to get a consistent 40fps. VR performance should be 90+ FPS. There are hardware VR acceleration features available on Nvidia GPUs but we won't see them utilised on DCS. The team are working on a system to improve performance that isn't tied to one brand of GPU.

 

As DCS continues to expand in content and visual+ simulation detail, the performance drops and the requirement to buy more expensive hardware grows.

 

People are going to extreme lengths to try and achieve a base level of smoothness in VR (at a lowly 40fps). The shader mod is a good example. It's a nice attempt at boosting performance but it's not an official feature and it frequently breaks DCS installations.

Edited June 12, 2020 by grammaton_feather

[TempRyan]

OK, that's nice and all, however, the reality of game/simulation development is that people will get angry. Obviously there are degrees of anger. Wholly negative/hate rants are always a bad thing.

 

DCS is the best modern military flight sim currently. There are issues of course and people disagree about apparent develoment priorities.

 

DCS has improved a lot which is good, however... ultimately it's a very complex simulation (increasingly complex) running on 1 CPU core (a second core has minimal use).

 

The latest supercarrier release is groundbreaking... however... also adds even more performance burden and the only way to get performance in VR currently is by overclocking CPU to at least 5ghz. People are going to very great expense to chase VR performance... I've seen 2080Ti users who want to rush to buy a 3000 series to gain VR performance in DCS.

 

The truth is that as great as DCS is overall... the performance is a big issue. Being tied to 1 core is a big issue. DX11 API bottleneck is a big issue and in ED's own words it's going to take a long time for Vulkan to arrive and they don't know what performance gain that will bring.

 

The reality is that shifting to Vulkan won't be a cure-all since the simulation will still be running on one CPU core.

 

Currently VR users are relying on VR driver-level motion-smoothing tricks to get a consistent 40fps. VR performance should be 90+ FPS. There are hardware VR acceleration features available on Nvidia GPUs but we won't see them utilised on DCS. The team are working on a system to improve performance that isn't tied to one brand of GPU.

 

As DCS continues to expand in content and visual+ simulation detail, the performance drops and the requirement to buy more expensive hardware grows.

 

People are going to extreme lengths to try and achieve a base level of smoothness in VR (at a lowly 40fps). The shader mod is a good example. It's a nice attempt at boosting performance but it's not an official feature and it frequently breaks DCS installations.

 

I dont understand the response in this thread to this but I'll put my part in. I fly in vr a vive with a 1070 ftw, and a CPU only running at 4.0. And I feel my performance is fine. I dont need 90 fps to enjoy it. I run about 30. The point of this was to thank ed for there hard work. So adding a criticism to this thread seems a bit off point.

[David OC]

Yep, DCS runs well in VR considering the size and scope of a non VR built sim and possibly the largest and dynamic VR game or sim there is to run in VR.

[MildWeasel]

I also agree that ED are taking too much hate at the moment. I've spent a lot of money not only on modules but hardware too. I am just away to look at starting to build a gaming PC for VR with solely DCS in mind.

 

Keep up the great work ED, can't imagine how hard it is to not only do what you do but to do it with all the hate and little thanks you get. You've got my thanks and then some! I'm sure with patience things will only get better.

 

I would also suggest anyone to watch/listen to the interview with Nick by the Grim Reapers, great info on why they go down the early access route etc.

Edited June 12, 2020 by MildWeasel

[rrohde]

+1

 

Just imagine *not* having DCS around. I am really grateful for the passion ED pours into DCS to make it what it is today - and I am very much looking forward to the DCS future as well.

[grammaton_feather]

I dont understand the response in this thread to this but I'll put my part in. I fly in vr a vive with a 1070 ftw, and a CPU only running at 4.0. And I feel my performance is fine. I dont need 90 fps to enjoy it. I run about 30. The point of this was to thank ed for there hard work. So adding a criticism to this thread seems a bit off point.

 

So you state 30FPS, "fine" and "VR" in the same sentence which is profoundly hilarious.

 

As for the not understanding my response... I was making the point that GAME DEVELOPMENT is a difficult industry to be in. There are rewards but with those rewards also comes the stress of people getting upset. If you can't understand that then maybe research other game developments over the decades. Look at steam feedback for various games.

 

It's the same in any creative industry... ED don't have an overwhelming level of hate. You're not doing them any favours by implying so. They have a reasonably balanced ratio of feedback. I read lots of positive comments on facebook and youtube whenever ED announce new content or bug-fixes. Sure there are complaints too, but not overwhelmingly so.

[TempRyan]

So you state 30FPS, "fine" and "VR" in the same sentence which is profoundly hilarious.

 

As for the not understanding my response... I was making the point that GAME DEVELOPMENT is a difficult industry to be in. There are rewards but with those rewards also comes the stress of people getting upset. If you can't understand that then maybe research other game developments over the decades. Look at steam feedback for various games.

 

It's the same in any creative industry... ED don't have an overwhelming level of hate. You're not doing them any favours by implying so. They have a reasonably balanced ratio of feedback. I read lots of positive comments on facebook and youtube whenever ED announce new content or bug-fixes. Sure there are complaints too, but not overwhelmingly so.

 

Yes I'm not one of the pc master race that really cares about all that. I dont need the best of the best to be happy with what I have.

 

But this is getting off point. This thread is a thank you to ed for there work. Not to argue about what thay do or how hard it is. So I still feel you missed the point if this thread entirely.

 

If ya dont want to thank ed for there hard work on this why even comment here? I wont be responding after this cause this is not the point of this thread at all.

 

The point is people who want to thank ed. That is all.

[grammaton_feather]

Yes I'm not one of the pc master race that really cares about all that. I dont need the best of the best to be happy with what I have.

 

But this is getting off point. This thread is a thank you to ed for there work. Not to argue about what thay do or how hard it is. So I still feel you missed the point if this thread entirely.

 

If ya dont want to thank ed for there hard work on this why even comment here? I wont be responding after this cause this is not the point of this thread at all.

 

The point is people who want to thank ed. That is all.

 

PC master race? Do you even know anything about PC hardware or VR hardware?

 

"30 FPS is fine" - No it isn't. Oculus ASW for starters requires 45 fps for motion-smoothing.

 

Oculus ASW does a great job but that's all you're relying on for what you rate as fine performance. Especially on a 1070. I ran a 1070 with a CPU around the 4ghz speed and I know exactly how it performs with DCS.

 

Yes I know the point of this thread... you believe ED team and DCS largely receives hate and complaints. I suggest you go look at ED's latest announcement on facebook for the Syria map. The responses are LARGELY POSITIVE and very little in the way of hate.

[silverdevil]

i too thank ED. i am playing it as OB with the understanding that i am testing / reporting with hopes any problems found are fixed. i play it everyday. some days i have more trouble than other days. all in all it is still fun and i work through it.

[MisterVince]

Showing some love IS important !

ED is doing a great job. They are constantly in touch with us, their community, seeking to improve their products and provide us the best simulation possible.

 

Thank you Eagle Dynamics ! YOU make our dreams come true! :thumbup:

[Oceandar]

I agree. I want to thank ED for faster loading time, nice FPS improvement (non VR), new features of hornet and Viper and reduced on lag in MP as I no longer see it even on crowded server (40 more players on GS).

 

Thank you ED and good luck.

[wilbur81]

I agree. I want to thank ED for faster loading time, nice FPS improvement (non VR), new features of hornet and Viper and reduced on lag in MP as I no longer see it even on crowded server (40 more players on GS).

 

Thank you ED and good luck.

 

Well said. :thumbup: Agreed.

[Smoked]

Its pretty simple though... I love ED, the game they provide, and the ability it lends me to do the things we do in MP with people that I have become incredibly close too and have never physically met. ED and DCS has allowed that. I am in the process of building a 1:1 pit to facilitate that even further.

 

That said, to think that I shouldn't be able to "voice" when they do stuff that ruffles my feathers is ludicrous. Show them love? Sure!! ALSO point out when mistakes are made and holding them accountable for those is just as important. I should be able to love and criticize simply because we have entered a contract with each other.. I provide them funds, they provide me a product. When they are failing to meet their end of the deal I am well within my rights to point that out. Just like I should point out when they nail things and make them better for us as a whole.

 

The entire "don't bash them, they are trying" does not work for me. They put themselves out there to deliver a product then they should expect, hell, they should welcome the constructive criticism. It is a 2 way street and people need to realize that.

[rwbishUP]

I can't imagine going back to a regular flight sim. even though I get frustrated when something isn't working exactly right. I'm f****n amazed by the product, I can't imagine being without DCS. And when I sit a friend or family in the pit. And show them DCS, they are blown away. Just think we could still be playing Nintendo "Top Gun".....lol

I want to enjoy it as much as I can. Before the new Ultra Liberals try to have it banned.

[David OC]

Its pretty simple though... I love ED, the game they provide, and the ability it lends me to do the things we do in MP with people that I have become incredibly close too and have never physically met. ED and DCS has allowed that. I am in the process of building a 1:1 pit to facilitate that even further.

 

That said, to think that I shouldn't be able to "voice" when they do stuff that ruffles my feathers is ludicrous. Show them love? Sure!! ALSO point out when mistakes are made and holding them accountable for those is just as important. I should be able to love and criticize simply because we have entered a contract with each other.. I provide them funds, they provide me a product. When they are failing to meet their end of the deal I am well within my rights to point that out. Just like I should point out when they nail things and make them better for us as a whole.

 

The entire "don't bash them, they are trying" does not work for me. They put themselves out there to deliver a product then they should expect, hell, they should welcome the constructive criticism. It is a 2 way street and people need to realize that.

 

Totally agree to voice opinions on the forum and do enjoy the interesting discussions here about X being right or wrong. It's just a hard place to be in building this world, aircraft, weapons, damage model, AI etc etc and have it all "Perfect for X".

 

Many rivet counters here that will not stop until perfect. Some would have ED's engineers work on an aircraft full time making X better till the end of time if they could.

 

 

discussing the DCS OH-58D

 

So I believe some Professional expectations is expected here also, just like these guy's in the video talk about when flying their million dollar military sim's. It's never going to be 100% IRL and someone will always want it better because they payed monies for it to be absolutely all perfect, no matter the cost for ED.

Edited June 13, 2020 by David OC

[grammaton_feather]

Its pretty simple though... I love ED, the game they provide, and the ability it lends me to do the things we do in MP with people that I have become incredibly close too and have never physically met. ED and DCS has allowed that. I am in the process of building a 1:1 pit to facilitate that even further.

 

That said, to think that I shouldn't be able to "voice" when they do stuff that ruffles my feathers is ludicrous. Show them love? Sure!! ALSO point out when mistakes are made and holding them accountable for those is just as important. I should be able to love and criticize simply because we have entered a contract with each other.. I provide them funds, they provide me a product. When they are failing to meet their end of the deal I am well within my rights to point that out. Just like I should point out when they nail things and make them better for us as a whole.

 

The entire "don't bash them, they are trying" does not work for me. They put themselves out there to deliver a product then they should expect, hell, they should welcome the constructive criticism. It is a 2 way street and people need to realize that.

 

Here you go... a balanced, rational view. There is a segment of DCS users who don't like any criticism. I've seen it first hand on the facebook DCS VR group where having created a thread on possible routes for future improvement of DCS VR - some come along and get angry because "you're a whiner", "if you don't like it play something else". I generally hate the "fanboy" expression because it's so misused but I think this is perhaps it's valid in some situations.

 

I have no issue with people thanking ED for creating and developing DCS. The tone of the OP here was more along the lines of ED receiving a disproportionate amount of hate and that the OP sought to counter that with some love. Well-intentioned but actually ED don't receive a lot of hate. It's a very small minority that could be considered extreme. The problem is that the feel-good everything is wonderful segment of users often don't seem to grasp that DCS is an ongoing development with areas that need addressing.

 

ED know VR performance is an issue but the OP here is in disagreement with that and believes DCS VR runs fine on a 1070+4ghz CPU.

[grammaton_feather]

Totally agree to voice opinions on the forum and do enjoy the interesting discussions here about X being right or wrong. It's just a hard place to be in building this world, aircraft, weapons, damage model, AI etc etc and have it all "Perfect for X".

 

Many rivet counters here that will not stop until perfect. Some would have ED's engineers work on an aircraft full time making X better till the end of time if they could.

 

 

discussing the DCS OH-58D

 

So I believe some Professional expectations is expected here also, just like these guy's in the video talk about when flying their million dollar military sim's. It's never going to be 100% IRL and someone will always want it better because they payed monies for it to be absolutely all perfect, no matter the cost for ED.

 

Yes, agree. In some cases people are talking about base-line performance in VR though which definitely isn't ok at the moment. People can and do discuss possible routes to raising that performance.

 

The thing is that ED are basically running an INCREASINGLY complex sim (wake turbulence/Aim120 etc etc) on a single-core. So there are various ideas and suggestions from people about possible routes to take. We know that Vulkan is coming and there may be the object culling improvement in a nearer time-space. The fact is that a certain segment of DCS VR users don't see any issues and imply that any ideas and suggestions for improvement amounts to "hate" or "whining".

 

However... Nothing wrong with thanking ED for DCS. I was posting very nice comments on the supercarrier launch videos on youtube and other social media areas. My only issue in this thread is that it implies ED receive so much hate that the OP needed to try and redress the balance. Well-intentioned but not accurate. I study the announcements from ED on their facebook page as well... when new content or updates are announced, the majority of feedback is very positive!

[Rudel_chw]

... they should welcome the constructive criticism..

 

Yes, the problem is that more often than not, the criticism isn’t at all constructive... most being just rants and ridiculous requests, like the guy that whined about the low perceived resolution of the Viggen’s rivets when looked up close.

[MisterVince]

... they should welcome the constructive criticism.

 

I definitely agree with your message. And they do accept constructive criticism, which is great.

[grammaton_feather]

Having somewhat clumsily hijacked this thread... In keeping with the OP's original purpose:

 

I would like to thank the ED team and 3rd party developers for creating an amazing mil sim.

 

The amount of actual hate levelled at ED is small though, it's important to distinguish bitter rage versus frustration and/or ideas for improvement.

[Snappy]

Yes, the problem is that more often than not, the criticism isn’t at all constructive... most being just rants and ridiculous requests, like the guy that whined about the low perceived resolution of the Viggen’s rivets when looked up close.

 

Maybe so, but right in your post is the next problem.Different people , different priorities.For you that guy‘s request about the Viggen resolution is ridiculous (and I personally can relate to that).But , next thing is for me personally, I couldn’t care less about the cloud visualization problem, and would prefer not a single additional computation cycle/coder work hour going that way to fix it, given the general performance issues of DCS and other areas which I would like to see fixed way before that.

But obviously its a major annoyance to lots of people on here.Its easy to be dismissive of someone else.And honestly , way too often on here, valid or constructive criticism is dismissed by the fanboy/ white knight fraction as whining or being negative nancy.

 

A bit more tolerance for diverging opinions would do these forums well (and hopefully the direction of future DCS development too in the best case)

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

Edited June 13, 2020 by Snappy

[Gierasimov]

To the contrary

 

DCS has improved a lot which is good, however... ultimately it's a very complex simulation (increasingly complex) running on 1 CPU core (a second core has minimal use).

 

The truth is that as great as DCS is overall... the performance is a big issue. Being tied to 1 core is a big issue. DX11 API bottleneck is a big issue and in ED's own words it's going to take a long time for Vulkan to arrive and they don't know what performance gain that will bring.

 

The reality is that shifting to Vulkan won't be a cure-all since the simulation will still be running on one CPU core.

.

 

Hi. I want to take this opportunity and ask about this. Is DCS tied to single core in that VR thing?

 

I am not VR user, I will never be, but that's something unimportant.

I run DCS on I76700K at constant 4.2GHz across all 4 cores, using 4k resolution with mostly max settings without sslr and depth of field, on a 60Hz screen.

DCS gives me 60fps most of the times even flying street level in Dubai.

Task manager, NZXT CAM software and Intel Extreme Tweaking utility show my CPU engaged at 45% most of the time, across ALL cores. There is not much running in the background, those apps, DCS and TrackIR.

I also saw some note in recent change log or newsletter saying that moved to mutlicore setup or something like that.

[Dunx]

Hi. I want to take this opportunity and ask about this. Is DCS tied to single core in that VR thing?

 

I am not VR user, I will never be, but that's something unimportant.

I run DCS on I76700K at constant 4.2GHz across all 4 cores, using 4k resolution with mostly max settings without sslr and depth of field, on a 60Hz screen.

DCS gives me 60fps most of the times even flying street level in Dubai.

Task manager, NZXT CAM software and Intel Extreme Tweaking utility show my CPU engaged at 45% most of the time, across ALL cores. There is not much running in the background, those apps, DCS and TrackIR.

I also saw some note in recent change log or newsletter saying that moved to mutlicore setup or something like that.

 

Not just VR. I run mostly in VR but use monitor for testing. I added shadows and did another test in monitor mode, see below. This may be due to my processor but I have never seen DCS spreading across threads.

 

0 - 100% (induces frame stutter)

1 - 4%

2 - 40%

3 - 6%

4 - 18%

5 - 5%

6 - 14%

7 - 5%

8 - 12%

9 - 3%

10 - 5%

11 - 42%