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Beautiful map, but VR?


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I know it's first release EA and things will improve, but my first impressions are a bit of a mix.

When I flew the Spit for an hour or so using TrackIR and my usual 4K monitor resolution, I thought, this is beauftiful, the most detailed map available on DCS, and nice, no fps drop performance as well.

 

Then, I tried it in VR. At the moment, it is unusable with my normal settings whenever there are any buildings around. I'm seeing GPU frame times in the 30-35ms range!

 

Looking forward to the improvements over the next few weeks.

 

Still, potentially, looking great!

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I second this, even after creating a mission with zero units and just my AC the fps sticks around 30-32 fps low level. Maybe Eagle dynamics will consider having optional shaders for virtual reality users.

 

Here's to hoping it improves in the future and this map will be playable in VR.

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Following on from my original post, it's not just VR fps that are poor, it's just that it's less noticable on monitor.

Running in 4K res with almost all settings - except MSAA - at max, I get a rock solid (frame limited) 58fps in DCS. Thge only exceptions to this are on the Supercarrier and populated areas in the Channel Map where frames astart dropping to 55-58.

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This map is still beta. It's developed with the near/mid-future in mind, that's is, Vulkan and future hardware requirements. It's meant to last vs being obsolete early on.

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We know it's beta, as acknowledged in first post. However, that doesn't alter the facts at present, as that is where we are now. Vulkan could be years away. No point in developing an app/map that can only be used at some unknown point in the future.

 

I have no doubt that ED will make improvements in the coming weeks, of that there is no doubt. Just as UGRA did with Normandy and ED with PG.

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Agreed.

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For me it seems to have settled down a bit now. The sweetspot in the jug over large towns is around 500ft without any jitters or blurring from the front quarter and 700ft from looking over the wingtips.

 

Turning onto the runway at Hawkinge is still blurry though.

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This map is still beta. It's developed with the near/mid-future in mind, that's is, Vulkan and future hardware requirements. It's meant to last vs being obsolete early on.

 

Not just that, it does have some memory leaks, which are probably related to its WIP status, patience will be the main keyword for this wonderful map and we will all be rewarded with good performance and the quality this map shows. :thumbup:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

 

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As above, I think that it took at least a good 30 mins+ to have been through and loaded new textures, which IMO impacted upon frame rate. Post that, it looked far more smooth.

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I just flew round the coast up to london and then south to the coast , took about an hour or so, no difference in performance at all... yuo do "get used to it" but it certainly doesn't stabilize after time.

 

Increasing altitude "helps", but as soon as you go down to actually see the scenery, you are in slide show territory, well maybe not quite slide show , but certainly outside of the parameters for motion vectoring, if you are out to see fine, but again you can see the FPS drop off fairly rapidly when you look in towards a built up area.

 

I'm sure we will get "speed houses" to go with our speed trees at some point, but it is definitely residential areas that cause the pain, at least for me your mileage may vary

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The level of detail is astonishing, and that video has inspired me to take a DCS road trip along the South coast, but I just wonder, is this too much detail for a flight sim? It is causing major fps issues, and when do we actually need that level when flying around over the area?

 

In what way will this detail actually be used in DCS? Maybe there are big plans for the future, I don't know.

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yep im not sure i need the realism of knowing patterned table cloths are on the tables in cafe's or that every house has an out house, with barrels and crates and picket fences etc... btw where are the Anderson shelters!

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If we read the comments over at the il-2 forums then, yes, we definitely need this level of detail!

Many posters there refer to the quality of the Maps of dcs.

If dcs world was only intended to be a fly over at 3000 feet World then maybe not... But there are helicopters and tanks. IL-2 GB now also has tank crew and that is why many people prefer more detailed maps (aside from bombing missions etc of course)!

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err then they can play another sim ... grim reality is as it stands what we have is unusable and it is in part due to the texture density

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Well I actually got channel running pretty good on rift s. Minus those memory stutters every once and awhile. Set pd to 1.0. And do that texture filtering hack in nvidia inspector set to -.0625 something like that and whalla pretty happy, might experiment with the AA mask thingy but will see later.

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Same here, anything above 5-600ft AGL is golden.

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The level of detail is astonishing, and that video has inspired me to take a DCS road trip along the South coast, but I just wonder, is this too much detail for a flight sim? It is causing major fps issues, and when do we actually need that level when flying around over the area?

 

In what way will this detail actually be used in DCS? Maybe there are big plans for the future, I don't know.

 

I have not purchased the Channel map, but as a VR headset user and multiplayer enthusiast (not interested in SP) I am unlikely to purchase this map if the fps performance for VR is reviewed as too low due to all the extra details that I don't think are needed for a combat flight simulation, like cafe's with table cloths and detailed back gardens for houses, etc.

 

My interest is WWII, not modern fast jets, and I mostly fly other WWII combat flights sims, but I am watching DCS WWII and waiting to see if it will be a viable proposition for VR and MP in the future for me. So far I am rather worried that the Channel map visuals are not being prioritised and managed for WWII combat flight simulation optimisation. Detail is nice, but I would much rather see effort put in to ground detail on airfields (atmosphere) were we land and take off, rather than suburban areas and towns that we flash over at high speed. I am not convinced that the map makers themselves have a combat flight sim head on and I am worried that they are wasting valuable resources on peripherals.

 

There have been recent improvements with DCS that might tempt me back as the combat flight simulation of choice for MP and VR, but the Channel map needs to be a joy in VR and be able to handle a high number of players on a MP server before I purchase much more from the DCS stable.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman


Edited by 56RAF_Talisman

56RAF_Talisman

 

Spitfire! 'That's no aircraft, that's a bleedin' angel'

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The map will be fine once the LOD's are done, flying normandy and then channel back to back you can clearly see the cities and villages in the channel map dont have the aggresive lod change such as Normandy.

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I agree with Talisman. We have the same interests. I won't buy the map until it is in better shape.

 

Normandy has improved and I expect the Channel map will too but there is little point in buying it if is to remain in the doldrums as far as the online community is concerned. I haven't done an object analysis of the Normandy map for some time but when I did I couldn't see the point of the hundreds of old vehicles, carts, piles of dust (!) etc which were bound to be dragging down the fame rates. If the same has been repeated in the Channel map I think someone has lost their way.

 

This is a combat flight sim and already the system requirements are so challenging that it is impossible to create a decent size online mission. To burden it further with unnecesary land objects, tanks etc is pointless in a combat flight sim. It is one of those moments in time when the direction of the sim has to choose a fork in the road. Is it to be a flight sim or a war sim? They are very different animals and one will not be supported well by an online community that is hungry for larger scale flight combat missions.

 

 

I expect it is driven by the apparent user base which suggests a larger off-line community than on-line. If that is the target audience then perhaps we cannot expect any improvements for on-line play that detract from the 'War Thunder' direction it is currently taking.

klem

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I agree with Talisman. We have the same interests. I won't buy the map until it is in better shape.

 

Normandy has improved and I expect the Channel map will too but there is little point in buying it if is to remain in the doldrums as far as the online community is concerned. I haven't done an object analysis of the Normandy map for some time but when I did I couldn't see the point of the hundreds of old vehicles, carts, piles of dust (!) etc which were bound to be dragging down the fame rates. If the same has been repeated in the Channel map I think someone has lost their way.

 

This is a combat flight sim and already the system requirements are so challenging that it is impossible to create a decent size online mission. To burden it further with unnecesary land objects, tanks etc is pointless in a combat flight sim. It is one of those moments in time when the direction of the sim has to choose a fork in the road. Is it to be a flight sim or a war sim? They are very different animals and one will not be supported well by an online community that is hungry for larger scale flight combat missions.

 

 

I expect it is driven by the apparent user base which suggests a larger off-line community than on-line. If that is the target audience then perhaps we cannot expect any improvements for on-line play that detract from the 'War Thunder' direction it is currently taking.

 

 

Thats fine. Dont buy it. You do have the choice of investing in the future of ED or not. However to answer your question of it being either a flight sim or a war sim, you have a rather large clue. DCS World. Nothing said about flight simming in the name. Just Digital COMBAT Simulator World.

 

However we all acknowledge that DCS is first and foremost a flight sim. A flight sim, just like any other sim is expected to evolve into an ever more realistic experience.

I would guess the vast majority of DCS users are flight simmers first, as in interested in the technicalities of flying, rather than purely killing others as their primary motive.

They may bomb something or fire a missile mid mission to enhance the experience, but the flight is the priority.

We expect the bells and whistles to enhance that flight experience, not to fly in a low poly world purely to suit those engaged in fighting that do not have time to look out the window.

 

Something you probably don't understand as an example, but I bet other SP types nod their head sagely. I have a mission set up to be in the leading element to bomb St Omer in the P47. The flak is fearsome, 37s and 38s in layers.

Often I get hit over the base, while pulling up after my bomb release, and have to go over the side...

 

I ride the chute down to the ground and WALK back to St Omer, through the local villages to watch the second wave coming in from the ground. The ensuing battle from ground level is astounding. The devil is in the detail...

 

 

 

Other sims are catching up fast and DCS has to stay one step ahead of the competition, and since the MAIN selling point for DCS is REALISM, that includes the terrain as much as the aircraft.

I would wager that there has been as many Huey missions flown in the channel map as there are spitfire ones..... That certainly seems true for Normandy.

 

 

Going down your route would see DCS haemorrhage users to another flight sim that is currently under development, finances would be cut and ultimately the multiplayer action you crave, would cease.


Edited by Tinkickef

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Perhaps a separate map version could be made available so that folks who would like to focus on aviation activity MP could have a map that was optimised for them, rather than having to make do with a map optimised for SP folks who would like the option to walk about and have lots of detail that make a map less viable for aviation MP and leading edge technology like VR.

 

A Channel map optimised for aviation MP server activity, including VR, might be a good idea.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman


Edited by 56RAF_Talisman

56RAF_Talisman

 

Spitfire! 'That's no aircraft, that's a bleedin' angel'

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Perhaps a separate map version could be made available so that folks who would like to focus on aviation activity MP could have a map that was optimised for them, rather than having to make do with a map optimised for SP folks who would like the option to walk about and have lots of detail that make a map less viable for aviation MP and leading edge technology like VR.

 

A Channel map optimised for aviation MP server activity, including VR, might be a good idea.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

It would be a good idea. However, who is going to pay for its development? The channel map is in its infancy, allow the devs to start optimising the code and flesh out its bones before calling for another map. It is already leaps and hounds better in VR than it was on release day.

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The map is already being developed. While it is still WIP is a good time to give and take on feedback and have food for thought. Not calling for another map, but a decluttered version of the map for aviation MP server pilots who don't want a walking/driving sight seeing simulator with low frame rates and have VR or low end PC's and don't want low frame rates and slide shows over towns and cities.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

56RAF_Talisman

 

Spitfire! 'That's no aircraft, that's a bleedin' angel'

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The map is already being developed. While it is still WIP is a good time to give and take on feedback and have food for thought. Not calling for another map, but a decluttered version of the map for aviation MP server pilots who don't want a walking/driving sight seeing simulator with low frame rates and have VR or low end PC's and don't want low frame rates and slide shows over towns and cities.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

But I don't have that even now. I have no problem with frame rates above 600ft agl already, and using reverb. Why would you argue for lesser quality?

Sorry, I just do not understand your reasoning. Surely it is in everyone's interest to push the envelope....


Edited by Tinkickef

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