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Instability


panzerd18
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Most of if not all missions that came with p47 has that only main tank with gas, want to say 67% but not in the pit to check:thumbup:

 

Should be about 72%. In the bubble tops, the main tank holds 270 gallons or 1620lbs of fuel and the aux tank holds 100 gallons or 600lbs of fuel, so that is 72% in the later models.

 

The razorbacks had a 200 gallon main tank and a 100 gallon aux tank so 66% is the ratio there.

 

The core thing is going to be to check the fuel tank gauge on the plane and see off the Aux tank is empty or not. There seems to be a bug where, when the plane gets fill, the front tank only gets partly filled, and the aux tank is fully filled.

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And just to follow up on the Fuel, it does state in the manual to drain the Aux tank first to help with longitudinal stability (Page 140).

 

The one time I did take 100% fuel and forgot to drain the Aux tank first it was a fight to climb out because of the instability.

 

I am finding that I fight the instability with my rudder and I am making it worse..

 

Thanks for the attention to detail Yo-Yo!

 

JD

 

AKA_MattE


Edited by Jugdriver
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And just to follow up on the Fuel, it does state in the manual to drain the Aux tank first to help with longitudinal stability (Page 140).

 

The one time I did take 100% fuel and forgot to drain the Aux tank first it was a fight to climb out because of the instability.

 

I am finding that I fight the instability with my rudder and I am making it worse..

 

Thanks for the attention to detail Yo-Yo!

 

JD

 

AKA_MattE

 

Yeap, this flight model is the best i've seen in my whole flight simulator time. Congrats to the team.

A-10C / AJS-37 / AV-8B / BF-109 / KA-50 / F-14 / F-16C / F-5E / F/A-18C / FC3 / JF-17 / F-86 / M-2000C / MiG-21bis / P-51D / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / UH-1H Huey

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If possible, please record a video and upload to youtube, it would be easier to help you this way. Also, please press "right control + enter" to check your joystick input (might be good to check your joystick axis calibration).

 

In fact it's not easy to fly like the P-51, however, the bird is not unstable that much.

 

I found that "dancing" a bit with the rudder for like a second when it starts to become unstable helps a lot for me.

 

Thank you, I’ll have a go at the YouTube video.

I have checked my joystick and it seems ok. I’ve reduced the roll, pitch and rudder curves to 20 from 25. I’ve already tried 15 but it didn’t help. Unless you mean something else to check or change?

Cheers

Rick

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Great stuff and tonight's read. I really appreciate the goldmine of info on the P-47.

That NASA doc is very long but already I have taken one key bit of info.

Don't EVER let go of the stick.


Edited by JIMJAM
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In thousands of hours of real flight time in everything from a 152, high powered pistons, turbo props and jets, I've never been in a plane that had the nose just float around the way this one does. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful plane they made here, I just hope they get more into the FM. Planes are meant to be stable. One of my pet peeves is when people who have never flown a plane think/say they shouldn't be on "rails". I hate to tell ya, they are designed to be on rails as much as possible and floating around isn't realistic. Here's to hope!

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In thousands of hours of real flight time in everything from a 152, high powered pistons, turbo props and jets, I've never been in a plane that had the nose just float around the way this one does. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful plane they made here, I just hope they get more into the FM. Planes are meant to be stable. One of my pet peeves is when people who have never flown a plane think/say they shouldn't be on "rails". I hate to tell ya, they are designed to be on rails as much as possible and floating around isn't realistic. Here's to hope!

 

It's like the controls are crossed and the rudder kicks in all of the sudden when you are trying to stabilize the wobble. Maybe I need to get used to it but it just doesn't feel right, makes me wonder how they shot anything down back in the day. I'm going to keep tweaking my controls and keep practicing though, figured I would put my two cents in as well.

 

Love the Jug though, excellent work. I hope this makes more people fly Warbirds and leads to large scale re-enactments of battles like in other games. The UFO AI needs to go, 7-10 continuous loops is just insane, we're not on Titan for crying out loud lol.


Edited by SmoglessPanic
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There are easily demonstrated examples

 

Links, please. And ones containing hard and verifiable evidence, please, not just your usual feel-based BS which we've heard already. Am asking because the physical effects in question have actually been present in every single DCS prop plane I've flown so far.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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I love it quirks, it's the only plane I can believe that I am actually sat in and flying.

Gonna get a buttkicker for her as well.

 

I agree, it actually brings me back to my light aircraft flying days (albeit Cesnas and Pipers handle a bit different :D)

 

I too find the dive characteristics very difficult, nose wanders about a lot, but I've got very used to balancing rudder trim and throttle up/down now.

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It's like the controls are crossed and the rudder kicks in all of the sudden when you are trying to stabilize the wobble. Maybe I need to get used to it but it just doesn't feel right, makes me wonder how they shot anything down back in the day. I'm going to keep tweaking my controls and keep practicing though, figured I would put my two cents in as well.

 

Love the Jug though, excellent work. I hope this makes more people fly Warbirds and leads to large scale re-enactments of battles like in other games. The UFO AI needs to go, 7-10 continuous loops is just insane, we're not on Titan for crying out loud lol.

 

 

Glad it's not just me, feel the same. Doesn't quite feel right, but I have much less experience.

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In thousands of hours of real flight time in everything from a 152, high powered pistons, turbo props and jets, I've never been in a plane that had the nose just float around the way this one does. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful plane they made here, I just hope they get more into the FM. Planes are meant to be stable. One of my pet peeves is when people who have never flown a plane think/say they shouldn't be on "rails". I hate to tell ya, they are designed to be on rails as much as possible and floating around isn't realistic. Here's to hope!

 

Well, that would be me. I have done exactly that. Using lots of Rudder trim, rudder, and roll trim dynamically to offset for different behaviors at different throttle and boost settings.

 

I guess I am used to it, but I did see one review video where the tester talked about how stable and easy the P-47 was a fly. I love this plane, but I wouldn't use the term "stable and easy to fly".

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

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In thousands of hours of real flight time in everything from a 152, high powered pistons, turbo props and jets, I've never been in a plane that had the nose just float around the way this one does. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful plane they made here, I just hope they get more into the FM. Planes are meant to be stable. One of my pet peeves is when people who have never flown a plane think/say they shouldn't be on "rails". I hate to tell ya, they are designed to be on rails as much as possible and floating around isn't realistic. Here's to hope!

 

 

I have to agree. As my previous post states, the aircraft feels better with less fuel, buts its a pain to trim and does not feel stable.

 

The floating around almost feels like a very rearward centre of gravity.

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For me, p-47 act logically, We need to remember that p-47 has quite large turbo installation on rear end of the plane, this probably is reason for this instability.

And you can fly all kind of aircrafts and you don't experience it until you fly P-47

I9 9900KF @5.0, Gigabyte Z390 Aorus PRO, Ram 32 GB G.skill, Palit Gamerock OC 3090, Hotas Warthog, Thrustmaster Pendular Pedals, OLED 48" 120Hz.

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Download the NASA P-47 IN DEPTH study. A link provided a page or 2 back. Should help eliminate any dart throwing and apples to oranges comparisons.

It is more than you probably ever wanted to know on just about every configuration including getting a FAIL by the USAF for it's hands off stability.

 

Also, yeah I bought 2 "Butttkicker" sound tactile systems. One drill into my wooden seat and one attached to my TM pedals.

When you pour on the coals it wants to shake your teeth out and your eyes cannot even read the panel. A MUST imo especially for the Warbirds.

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she fly's great, i feel that once the flight dynamics and behavior are finished in the low speed, stall aspects it will all make more sense for some folks.

 

Good person to ask is Nick, who actually fly's this bird, take his word any day on dcs warbirds . He did mention in Phil live stream that the rudder needs some Curve tuning and such. Also Yo-Yo has posted interesting tid bits on the handling of a Jug in russian side of forums. Early access allot of aspects to flying a jug compared to say a mustang.


Edited by Enduro14

Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

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lol judge a flight model by youtube videos.... when jug is developed and tested by real Jug pilot...... Have fun Make sure you run your jugs with no turbo and at airshow settings....

Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

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lol judge a flight model by youtube videos.... when jug is developed and tested by real Jug pilot...... Have fun Make sure you run your jugs with no turbo and at airshow settings....

 

I think the flight model is really good, however I am not a pilot. Just wanted to see if there was some kind of instability while the guy was flying.

 

If we can't judge FM using youtube videos, why Yo-Yo was using the video below to prove that DCS flight model is best around?

 

Check it yourself:

 

A-10C / AJS-37 / AV-8B / BF-109 / KA-50 / F-14 / F-16C / F-5E / F/A-18C / FC3 / JF-17 / F-86 / M-2000C / MiG-21bis / P-51D / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / UH-1H Huey

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Hi

 

We have worked with real world data for the flight model, and have real P-47 pilot feed back.

You wont find a better flight model anywhere else. :)

thanks

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

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I think the flight model is really good, however I am not a pilot. Just wanted to see if there was some kind of instability while the guy was flying.

 

If we can't judge FM using youtube videos, why Yo-Yo was using the video below to prove that DCS flight model is best around?

 

Check it yourself:

 

 

You do realize that video has that actual p51 pilot flying in that video, he is not giving impression from a youtube video he is giving impression from that actual flight as he flew it....

Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

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Yep. I found her to be a little twitchy.

 

If you start in the air, you'll need to right rudder trim to compensate for the sudden torque.

 

I was having problems with her, trimming all over the place, not understanding it.

 

But then, I remembered she has a BIG engine upfront with a lot of torque. Then I started to pay attention to it and remembered how you must her like you fly a Huey.

 

On the Huey the torque behaves differently if you are going up or down.

 

In the P-47 is the same. You'll need to pay attention to that, ALL the time. I'm always trimming the rudder and then adding a little bit of aileron trim. That's it.

 

She also behaves differently at low level and at altitude. But always pay attention to the rudder.

 

The only thing I believe ED must tune is the trim gain using a button. I don't have a neatly placed analog button to trim her out, mainly in pitch, so I'm using buttons, and it has been a little difficult to get her right on the money for level flight. The gain could be little less.


Edited by RodBorza

This is an amazing sim! 'Nuff said!:pilotfly:

 

YouTube: SloppyDog

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You do realize that video has that actual p51 pilot flying in that video, he is not giving impression from a youtube video he is giving impression from that actual flight as he flew it....

 

Don't get me wrong, IMO the p47 flight model is the best of every prop aircraft ever created. However, Im no pilot so videos is the only way I have to see if it's close to reality or not. If you see the video you can see how good the FM is.

A-10C / AJS-37 / AV-8B / BF-109 / KA-50 / F-14 / F-16C / F-5E / F/A-18C / FC3 / JF-17 / F-86 / M-2000C / MiG-21bis / P-51D / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / UH-1H Huey

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Hi

 

We have worked with real world data for the flight model, and have real P-47 pilot feed back.

You wont find a better flight model anywhere else. :)

thanks

 

I have to agree. I am not a pilot, and lots of opinions, including my own about how fun she is to fly, but I also mentioned not "stable" - but I did read the NASA report, and I understand that with that massive engine, and as someone else pointed out, some spinning mass in the tail - well, trim and rudder input are just how it is going to be, and I am absolutely LOVING this bird.

 

 

Just a long way of me saying, sorry I doubted a bit, all the reports and size of this bird make sense she would need trim and a very hands on flight model. Which makes it so much fun.

 

Waited six years for this bird, and I have to say, after every flight I am either grinning ear to ear, or researching her more, to understand how to fly it better.

Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!
JTF-191 25th Draggins - Hawg Main. Black Shark 2, A10C, A10CII, F-16, F/A-18, F-86, Mig-15, Mig-19, Mig-21, P-51, F-15, Su-27, Su-33, Mig-29, FW-190 Dora, Anton, BF 109, Mossie, Normandy, Caucasus, NTTR, Persian Gulf, Channel, Syria, Marianas, WWII Assets, CA. (WWII backer picked aircraft ME-262, P-47D).

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