Channel Map. First impressions.

[Ercoupe]

While some people are complaining that the Channel map is not a good representation of WW2 England, I don't see it as a problem.

First of all, it's a combat sim. I like flying around low looking at the scenery, but I'm looking forward to FS2020 for that. It's supposed to be so accurate that you can fly over your own house!

I also don't mind that some modern structures are there because I like the idea of a sandbox. I want to fly my jets there, too. And the Christen Eagle, and that new freeware Edge 540.

And besides, when I'm flying combat and I'm trying to keep a '109 from shooting my tail off, I really don't care that some building on the ground is in the wrong place.

[Holbeach]

While some people are complaining that the Channel map is not a good representation of WW2 England, I don't see it as a problem.

First of all, it's a combat sim. I like flying around low looking at the scenery, but I'm looking forward to FS2020 for that. It's supposed to be so accurate that you can fly over your own house!

I also don't mind that some modern structures are there because I like the idea of a sandbox. I want to fly my jets there, too. And the Christen Eagle, and that new freeware Edge 540.

And besides, when I'm flying combat and I'm trying to keep a '109 from shooting my tail off, I really don't care that some building on the ground is in the wrong place.

 

 

Luckily for you, you have exactly what you want. A sandbox.

 

 

Even in the unlikely event that all the wishlist was incorporated, you would still have exactly what you require and so would I.

 

 

BTW. I can fly over and land at my house in FSX.

 

 

..

[stormrider]

While some people are complaining that the Channel map is not a good representation of WW2 England, I don't see it as a problem.

First of all, it's a combat sim. I like flying around low looking at the scenery, but I'm looking forward to FS2020 for that. It's supposed to be so accurate that you can fly over your own house!

I also don't mind that some modern structures are there because I like the idea of a sandbox. I want to fly my jets there, too. And the Christen Eagle, and that new freeware Edge 540.

And besides, when I'm flying combat and I'm trying to keep a '109 from shooting my tail off, I really don't care that some building on the ground is in the wrong place.

 

 

+1

[Holbeach]

Conclusion.

[harvard4]

A2A Simulations sell a set of royal air force maps from 1938 which depict what was there regarding airfields, air corridors along the main line railways, air lights,marine lights etc I recommend buying the set for under $20.

[Svandamme76]

I'm missing the Atlantikwall defenses , bunkers and what not.

And the German Airfield at Koksijde.. that still exists.. including the hangers from that era..

 

Also, there were 2 HUUUUGE V1 complexes in North of France, still in existance today

 

 

Block haus near Eperleques, one slightly to the east

They really cannot be ignored in the Channel map.. they were very important structures in the Air War, the target of many Tall Boy and Grand Slam missions

 

these were some of the biggest Nazi constructions done in WW2, along with the Sub pens..

 

There was also a v3 site, but that one would not have been as visible from the air.

most of that was under ground..

It was the predecessor of the space cannon, the Bull Super cannon that Sadam Hussein himself wanted to build at some point..

 

 

 

1 Atlantik Wall

Still many bits remaining to this day that can be used to get an idea

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@51.2006049,2.8451201,251m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

 

Note the coast line.. Most of the land inwards is below sea

So the current Channel map doesn't show that, the farmland starts right up next to the sea, which isn't possible in Flanders.

 

There has to be a bit of a dune area and a sea wall.. to protect the inland from flooding..

 

 

2 BlockHaus Eperleques, huge Square V2 bunker complex

Tall boys just bounced off ..

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blockhaus+d'%C3%89perlecques/@50.8286461,2.1838004,106m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xffc71c17b9dcdb54!8m2!3d50.8285845!4d2.1836797?hl=en

 

http://www.leblockhaus.com/en/

 

 

3 La Coupole, huge Dome V2 Bunker Complex..

 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.7050559,2.2433036,151m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

 

https://www.lacoupole-france.co.uk/

 

4 Koksijde military Airfield

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@51.0975222,2.6402116,1066m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

 

blurred on google maps as it's still military

the german built hangars are now used by the SAR

'

http://www.belgian-wings.be/webpages/navigator/photos/milltarypics/airfields/koksijde.htm

 

 

 

5 Flemish towns also lack the typical church, and in towns like Ypres there's some big very identfiable mideaval structures and the Menin Gate.

Many English people know that well as it's a WW1 pelgrimage..

 

 

Cloth Hall, and cathedral , clearly visible

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.8514916,2.8850591,164m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

 

 

Menin Gate

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.8519392,2.8911836,89m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

[Alicatt]

 

5 Flemish towns also lack the typical church, and in towns like Ypres there's some big very identfiable mideaval structures and the Menin Gate.

Many English people know that well as it's a WW1 pelgrimage..

 

 

Cloth Hall, and cathedral , clearly visible

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.8514916,2.8850591,164m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

 

 

Menin Gate

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.8519392,2.8911836,89m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

The Menin Gate is quite a large structure, it's been a few years since I was last in Ieper, also there is a large fort on the southern edge of the town too

 

The gate from street level

 

More of the gate, that is my son and daughter standing at the gate

 

Cloth Hall from the end

 

Front of the Cloth Hall... please ignore me trying to murder my son...

 

Also close to the Cloth Hall

 

Surviving Fortifications in the town

[Svandamme76]

I was last in Ieper, also there is a large fort on the southern edge of the town too

[/img]

 

Not a fort, just City walls, Ramparts..

Built by famous French architect, Vauban..

 

the water around them is actually visible in DCS But it's probably quite more work to model and match it with the water now visible.. vs just putting some of hte bigger buildings in with the rest of the "furniture"..

 

as for the Menin Gate...

the first thing Hitler did... After having Blitzkriegd over Belgium..

was to visit Ypres and the Menin Gate..They weren't yet finished fighting near Dunkirk , Operation Dynamo was in full swing,

when he visited the former WW1 Salient, Ypres and some key places(where he had been).

Edited June 21, 2020 by Svandamme76

[Svandamme76]

In Oostende, at Atlantik Wall there was something called the Pink Villa.

a Huge square looking McMansion of the Interbellum..

 

The germans had incorporated it in the defences.. it was full of machine guns overlooking the beach.. It still exists to this day

 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x47dca52eca38f041%3A0xfd815b1553ee3d02!3m1!7e115!4s%2Fmaps%2Fplace%2Froze%2Bvilla%2Boostende%2F%4051.2053222%2C2.8547673%2C3a%2C75y%2C59.09h%2C90t%2Fdata%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sKIf7_lYTweVLeuc1IuMusQ*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x47dca52eca38f041%3A0xfd815b1553ee3d02%3Fsa%3DX%26hl%3Den!5sroze%20villa%20oostende%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2sKIf7_lYTweVLeuc1IuMusQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilxPLkmJLqAhXO_qQKHUW8DdkQpx8wCnoECA8QCw&cshid=1592718098297349

 

Street view also shows how the coast looks.. the sea wall and dunes protecting the lower laying land more inland

 

 

Old timers friend of mine(now passed away) told me the story, that his uncle, a local fishermen and beach comber had permits to go out fishing

But between fixed hours..

Obviouslyalways pushing the limits.. stretching his time out in sea..coming back in way past curfew.

The locals knew where all the mines were and had to cross the beach foll of mines and obstacles

Till at some point the Germans had enough of it.. and from the Pink Villa, they their MG42's up and down the beach to teach him a lesson.

 

The story goes he ran full speed to his little house in the dunes, barged through the door and under/behind the bed.. in some kind of stupor , he had literally shit his pants and his nerves were completely shot..

 

My friend had a Mauser with full matching 39 stamps, that he had gotten from somebody's attic not far from the Pink Villa.

I've shot it, the thing was very accurate (but not as good as my 44 rebarreld 42 1903A3 that I shot at service rifle competitions out to 800 yds.)

Edited June 21, 2020 by Svandamme76

[Alicatt]

Not a fort, just City walls, Ramparts..

Built by famous French architect, Vauban..

 

the water around them is actually visible in DCS But it's probably quite more work to model and match it with the water now visible.. vs just putting some of hte bigger buildings in with the rest of the "furniture"..

 

as for the Menin Gate...

the first thing Hitler did... After having Blitzkriegd over Belgium..

was to visit Ypres and the Menin Gate..They weren't yet finished fighting near Dunkirk , Operation Dynamo was in full swing,

when he visited the former WW1 Salient, Ypres and some key places(where he had been).

Thanks for the info, it's been 15 years since I was in Ieper, I now live in Limburg which is not on the map, we have quite a few old WW2 airstrips around here plus the modern Kleine Brogel airbase which is just a stone's throw from here.

 

The other thing that I remember about being over in Flanders are all the WW1 grave yards like at Tyne Cot which is just a little east of Ieper and still within the bounds of the Channel Map.

 

 

I was there a couple of years ago to visit a grave for a friend in Australia that could not get over to see it, the place is huge and quite humbling seeing all those people that laid down their lives for us.

[Alicatt]

Just flying over Ambleteuse, France, while they have the costal fort on the map the town isn't

 

https://www.google.be/maps/@50.807097,1.6017278,869m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

 

From the fort looking towards Boulogne you can see the Atlantic wall running along the edge of the beach

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambleteuse

 

During World War II, the area fell under German military occupation. There was a concentration camp built in the environs. Between 1941 and 1943, the German engineers of Organisation Todt installed bunkers for artillery at the fort as part of work on the Atlantic Wall. In the bay of the river they also built sluices to flood the valley to prevent an Allied landing. After the Normandy Landings, Ambleteuse became the endpoint for the second "Operation Pluto" pipeline, fuelling the Allies from supplies in Kent.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Alicatt
Add link to WW2 info about the town

[broderbund67]

Did they model some of the big batteries Near Calais? Thinking about battery Todt in Haringzelle and battery Lindemann in Sangatte

[Holbeach]

A little note for anybody who visits Steam and has only 8 gb RAM.

 

 

Steam uses about 600 mb RAM (6%).

 

 

Channel Map uses all RAM, plus all VRAM and with about 40 planes and various ships and vehicles about 24 gb PFile.

 

 

 

When you exit Steam, it continues to use that RAM in the background, so it needs to be disabled in the tray to free those mbs.

 

 

You need every megabyte you can get, to make it run smooth.

 

 

..

[imacken]

A little note for anybody who visits Steam and has only 8 gb RAM.

 

 

Steam uses about 600 mb RAM (6%).

 

 

Channel Map uses all RAM, plus all VRAM and with about 40 planes and various ships and vehicles about 24 gb PFile.

 

 

 

When you exit Steam, it continues to use that RAM in the background, so it needs to be disabled in the tray to free those mbs.

 

 

You need every megabyte you can get, to make it run smooth.

 

 

..

In all honesty, I would have to ask why on earth you are trying to run DCS with only 8Gb RAM? And, as you can see from the system requirements on Steam, heavy missions need a minimum of 16Gb with 32Gb recommended.

 

So, I'm not surprised you are having issues with complex missions and 8Gb RAM!

 

As an aside, Steam takes only 200mb on my system.

[Holbeach]

 

So, I'm not surprised you are having issues with complex missions and 8Gb RAM!

 

 

I have no problems at all running DCS on 8 mb and never have on my 9 year old system, but I want every mb I can get and this info might be useful to others, (but I do have more RAM on the way).

 

P.S. It arrived as I was writing this.

 

Testing them on my mission. 37 planes in a furball over the Channel, on a Blue attack against ground targets at Dunkirk, plus 4 Ju-88 against 1 LST off Ramsgate.

 

 

F2-ing between planes, with 8 gb RAM, would result in a hesitation loading that next plane. but now it's instant. Good result.

 

VRAM is topped at 8 gb, RAM at 16 gb and Commit Charge is still at around 24 gb. which surprised me, but it all runs smooth.

 

For comparison using Caucasus (Stable) with a 125 a.i. mission. VRAM 8gb, RAM 12 gb, C C 20 gb, Running smooth.

 

(The RAM removed was, Kingston Hyper X Genesis 8 gb DDR3 1600 KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX).

It's always worked very well with DCS.

Sorry to see it go really. I loved that old RAM.

 

RAM added. Corsair Vengence PRO DDR3 16 gb.

 

 

..

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Holbeach
Added detail..

[Holbeach]

 

As an aside, Steam takes only 200mb on my system.

 

 

I have 7 Steam client WebHelpers which are taking my 600 mb and I have been unable to get rid.

 

Anybody?

..

Edited June 28, 2020 by Holbeach

[Holbeach]

Even with only 1 Spitfire sitting on a runway.

 

VRAM is 8123 gb, RAM 15589 gb, PF 20033 gb. (This max VRAM also occurs by simply using the mission editor without flying it).

Hopefully, optimisation will reduce this.

 

For comparison, Caucasus is 5215, 10717 and 14915 respectively.

 

This Channel map is crying out for a :------

 

 

Beaufighter.

Typhoon.

German bomber.

Biggin Hill is coming.

But if we get Duxford, this would meen a massive push North, way beyond the undeveloped present border.

Given the complexity of the present map, this sounds like a big job.

 

 

 

..

Edited June 29, 2020 by Holbeach

[Soupdragon]

At the risk of the inevitable answer of 2 more weeks, when does this map go to general release?

[imacken]

Are you kidding? It only went to EA a few weeks ago. Ask in a year's time!

[reece146]

Even with only 1 Spitfire sitting on a runway.

 

VRAM is 8123 gb, RAM 15589 gb, PF 20033 gb. (This max VRAM also occurs by simply using the mission editor without flying it).

Hopefully, optimisation will reduce this.

 

For comparison, Caucasus is 5215, 10717 and 14915 respectively.

 

 

Channel map is memory hungry. Here is my experience with it (machine has 32GB):

 

 

Channel map uses more than 16GB of RAM - at least on my system. This plot is taking off and running touch and goes at High Halden in the Spitfire, flying north to the Thames, Manston, Dover then landing at High Halden again.

 

 

 

 

Machine is i3770K OC @ 4.5GHz, 2070S, 1440p, msaa_x4, Ani_x16, high most things, OBS recording but using iGPU for encoding.

 

Pretty much stutter free, pagefile.sys removed, all the craptastic background programs like steam, logitech hub, etc., etc. disabled.

From: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4398662&postcount=2

 

 

It's a big map in memory but so worth it IMO.

[Holbeach]

On the plus side.

 

 

Even with 40 ai planes, my system runs smooth, even though the VRAM and RAM are on the ceiling. PF increases as units are added.

 

 

In France, where the buildings are more sparse, RAM starts to come down a bit.

 

 

All good so far.

..

[Lenux]

Guys, is it possible to add more WW2 trains ?

I tried but they are all modern trains ( Caucasus map )

Thank you

[Holbeach]

Observations, when using WW2 Assets Pack and ai in Channel Map.

 

 

A.i. only and no trigger points used.

 

 

Dover Strait.

This scenario was run at least 20 times, using varying altitudes.

The result was different every time, but the blues always won. Both sides on High.

 

 

Pit 16 blue (Spit/P 47/P 51/A 20) planes, against 16 or 20 red (109/190/) and blue will always win by a large margin.

 

Include 4 Ju 88 reds and this situation will reverse as 88's will soak up blues after they have destroyed reds.

Blues will use many different attack styles, but 88 is very tough. Will always press on to target, (ships only) and fend off attackers.

 

Damaged enemy will land in England. Place AAA at airfields to stop this.

 

A-20 will dive bomb, level bomb, machine gun strafe, and dog fight, any target it sees and will prioritise threats. (Always use CAS). Very reliable. No anti shipping. Will always fight, rather than press on to the target. It will not jettison load when attacked.

 

P-51 will rocket and strafe ground targets, use CAS not ground attack. Anti shipping against U-boat. S-boat is unrecognised.

Spit will Strafe and bomb. Use CAS and it works. Level bomb @ 3,300'. Dive bomb @ 4,500'

P-47. CAS, bomb and strafe OK, All will drop loads when attacked.

B-17. I'm working on it. No success so far.

 

U-boat is barely damaged by bombs and less so by rockets. There is no graphical damage.

 

LST 2 requires 5 torps to sink it. LS requires more than 6 and might not sink, because health bar goes too low to be recognised. Higgins, 1 torp.

88 will launch torps at quite a close range. Sub and S boat at long range. Offset is allowed, for moving and multiple targets.

 

190 A8, will dive bomb moving LST 2, but always miss, because they don't use offset. Rockets work better. LS is not recognised.

 

Steam trains require date to be set at 1944 or they won't show.

Trains can't be added, except static. Static S boats not recognized.

 

AAA, except Bofors, have no crew to work them, also ships have no crew.

Vehicles drive through each other.

Ships drive through each other.

Harbour breakwaters and some land, can be crossed by ships (Dunkirk)

Dover Hbr can't be entred.

Sea state is same inside as outside of harbours.

 

I've just bought Combined Arms, so a scenario involving 70 ships, ( 3 LS/4LST2/63 Higgins), plus opposing land forces and supporting aircrft, assulting Dunkirk, has been devised, to see how the ai cope.

12 German planes are taking off at Mardyke and Panzer IVs and VIs, are moving through the town to the beach. A 20s and Mustangs are sent to stop them. Spitfires provide top cover. 190s approach from South to attack ships.

Stugs are approaching from the East. Panthers and Elephant are shelling landing craft. Churchills are landed on the beach.

Press the button and sit back and watch the action.

Now with Combined arms, as soon as the action stalls, a prod can be given here and there to get it moving again. Well worth it.

I reached 167 units before action became unusable, so a big cutback to make it playable to keep high settings.

Moving away from Dunkirk would help.

 

Moved invasion to Dieppe, where the frames are more abundant.

I have 104 ships on the beaches and 70 vehicles and it's running OK. The downside is, whenever an enemy plane gets close, the ammount of AAA from the ships, brings the frames down to single figures.

 

 

Channel Map/WWII Assets/Combined Arms, the perfect combination!

 

LS causes regular stutts, due to all guns firing immediately at shore targets. A re think is required. All LS removed.

TD Jagdpanther, floats and fights on water.

 

Dieppe August 1942. Tank Landing Craft, on Red and White beach, landing Churchills.

 

..

Edited July 21, 2020 by Holbeach
Adding details.

[REDEYE_CVW-66]

Not map related- but to have a "fair" dogfight in the Spitfire

 

Vs 190A/D: Set enemy AI to max, set spit AI to lowest.

 

Vs 109K. Set enemy ai to high, set spit AI to lowest.

 

Junkers 88 is RIDICULOUS. It's garden hose, laser focused, non-stop firing machine guns will chew through all AI like butter. Players can pull it off using very high attack angles and slashing attacks- but safe to say, the air war in Europe would have been lost if the Luftwaffe had these things as they are now in DCS.

[Holbeach]

I tried that and it did reverse the situation, but I didn't like the idea of making the RAF average, so I increased the Germans to excellent.

A mix of planes including P-47's created a loss.

Replacing these with Spits, in a 40 v 40 fight, produced a 3 to 1 win.

 

I had to remove the Ju-88, because it had too great an influence on the outcome. Not only does it have a very powerful defence armament, but it is armour plated!

 

..