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Engine startup


Hornetjock

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I do wonder what the difference in smoke between sitting time frames is. On other radials there is always smoke. But more or less depending on how long its been sitting. I wonder what a good average amount of smoke would be for a start.

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I do wonder what the difference in smoke between sitting time frames is. On other radials there is always smoke. But more or less depending on how long its been sitting. I wonder what a good average amount of smoke would be for a start.

 

Yeah I’m betting some of these relics are only started occasionally so quite a bit of oil puddles into the lower cylinders causing the smoke.

 

During WW2, depending on the Squadron/timeframe/mission, some of the P-47’s were flying 3 missions a day! I bet they barely smoked on some of those startups!

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This is why we need a more dynamic startup procedure. That goes for all aircraft in dcs. None of them should start the exact same each time, each airframe will have its own nuances etc. Like this, some should require more primer, some won't. Some will smoke a lot in start, others won't.

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Yeah I’m betting some of these relics are only started occasionally so quite a bit of oil puddles into the lower cylinders causing the smoke.

 

During WW2, depending on the Squadron/timeframe/mission, some of the P-47’s were flying 3 missions a day! I bet they barely smoked on some of those startups!

 

I guarantee nothing at Planes Of Fame is only “started occasionally.”

 

PoF is a world-class organization and they take VERY good care of their aircraft.

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With a radial engine, you can generally tell by the amount of smoke it spews at startup as to how long the engine has been sitting. Even for a museum like Planes of Fame, any one particular aircraft in the museum is only run/flown every so often (certainly not on a weekly basis). Given the date of the film, and the level of smoke, I would say that that had to have been its first start up of the year/first start in months.

 

Here are some reference videos which are good studies, as this particular P-47D, "Tallahassee Lassie", is one of the few of the 11 P-47's flying today which is completely original throughout, just as they were in 1944/45, with all of the same internal ducting and working turbocharger. It provides an accurate look as to where and how the smoke at startup emits from both the front and rear of the aircraft in a fully original/authentically-configured P-47.

 

This video shows the level of startup smoke after it had already been run earlier in the day:

 

By comparison, this video shows the level of startup smoke after the aircraft had been sitting for a while, with noticeably much more smoke as a result.

 

Here is another video with a lot of great footage of this particular P-47. On the takeoff sequences and flyovers you can hear the whine of the turbo fan spinning.

 

Of the 11 P-47's flying in the world today, only 4 have functioning turbochargers, those being "Tallahassee Lassie", "Dottie Mae", "Hun Hunter XVI", and N47DF. The rest feature creative ways of rerouting the exhaust and/or bypassing the turbo.

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No smoke is the realistic option for a well maintained, daily started Pratt.

 

 

Not in my experience....PW R2000 and Wright Cyclone 3350's (20yrs) Lots of smoke on first start of the day and about 1/3 of that on every other start. I have never seen PW's not produce smoke on start. Oh btw radials in the RAAF were superbly maintained.

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A bit of smoke and a more pronounced coughing and banging on start up would be nice. Sounds incredible as is though

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Not in my experience....PW R2000 and Wright Cyclone 3350's (20yrs) Lots of smoke on first start of the day and about 1/3 of that on every other start. I have never seen PW's not produce smoke on start. Oh btw radials in the RAAF were superbly maintained.

 

Oil in the cylinders is oil getting past the rings/valve seals. If oil is getting past fast enough to smoke visibly on every start, the maintenance might be superb but the overhaul was not.


Edited by pmiceli

 

 

 

 

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A bit of smoke and a more pronounced coughing and banging on start up would be nice. Sounds incredible as is though

 

Coughing and banging is a symptom of someone who isn't really proficient at starting a radial.

 

We owed a fiver to the beer kitty for every "bang".

 

Backfiring on start also is a great way to ignite the oil on the engine and in the cowling. Its quite exciting.

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  • 1 year later...
On 7/22/2021 at 12:17 AM, _Spad_ said:

I'd honestly just like like the engine to be louder on start up. Seems very quiet.

Crank your volume up then.

About smoking at start up, there is a difference when engine runs every day and engine which runs every month or so.

In case of radial engines oil accumulated in cylinders is not a big threat, since cranking engine by hands make sure that cylinders aren't hydro locked, the biggest danger is oil accumulated in inlet pipes, this is the reason why some radials smoke like crazy after start up, it does not mean that engine needs overhaul.

Often oil or other lubricant are injected in to internal parts of engine to prevent corrosion, this as well makes engine smokes  crazy after start. 

Oil accumulation in lower part of radial engine is something normal to every radial engine, even brand new engines require cranking engine before start up just to make sure that cylinders are free of too much oil.


Edited by grafspee

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I think some of you guys are forgetting that aircraft, and their engines, are designed to seal up correctly at operating temperature and at altitude.

 

Many planes leak (even jets) while sitting on the ground.

 

It wouldn’t be abnormal for a low time P-47 that had been expertly maintained to have some oil leak passed the piston rings once it had cooled down on the ground.  Expect even more leaks on a cold night.

 

This is why maintenance personnel would rotate the prop through by hand several times, and then start and warm up the engine before the pilot stepped to the aircraft.

 

Once maintenance shut the engine off, they probably serviced the engine one last time and then greeted the pilot.

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