Guess what! Easy AAR!

[Pikey]

I don't see the reason myself. AAR isn't required unless it's a long mission. Anyone who doesn't have time to learn AAR is most likely short on time or doesn't want to try to do it. Therefore it seems mutually exclusive to have some sort of cheat for AAR. Accessibility tends to be important for entry level difficulty and low time investment individuals. Entire squadrons all do it, often in front of each other, whilst having someone call out annoying and offputting comments to the person that has got sweaty palms and hadn't practiced recently. AAR is not a mystery. Sticks can make some difference, I would say throttles more than sticks, but I don't see anything that makes the game more accessible, if you want more fuel, take more fuel. If you ran out, how about planning. If you want more flying time, put on unlimited fuel. If you want to achieve AAR, then practice it, it's not a gateway to anything in the sim.

[Pyker]

I (try to) regularly do some AAR in the tomcat just because it's a way to improve my formation flying skills. In the beginning I couldn't do it at all. Then I watched some tutorials that explained that the key to it was trimming. And that there are tricks to make easier for beginners, like using bombing mode wingsweep in the tomcat. And that indeed the C130 is easier than the S3. And maybe refuelling from a basket is easier than from a boom (don't know, never tried from a boom).

 

I'm making progress: now sometimes I can catch the basket while the S3 is turning (don't mock me).

 

What I missed was not so much an easy AAR mode as a good training mission with all the explanations, instead of just an instant action thing and then sink or swim. If you just keep trying but do it always wrong then it'll never work. Unfortunately you have to look for good tutorials etc. And spend time. Fortunately there are many good tutorials.

[Vertigo72]

As a brave/stupid newbie who decided the F14 is the best module to learn DCS, I can fully understand where the OP is coming from. Ive a few 100 hours or so in the cat now, and a few hours of AAR trying, and I havent yet hooked up once, and I dont think Im even close to doing it regularly.

 

However, I dont really want an AI doing it for me. That would teach me nothing. Instead I want some "cheats" that help me do it myself. One such cheat already exists, its the info bar at the bottom, so at least in the F14 you have a good idea of your airspeed and you can much more easily learn how your throttle controls your airspeed and build up that muscle memory.

 

But I need more and I would really like some steering guidance too. its so hard to look out of the F14 and then there is an offset fuel probe to make things even harder. So maybe show me some fake HUD, much like the suspended rectangles that are shown in carrier landing tutorials, that show where I need to steer my nose, along with maybe some relative velocity indicators.

 

Another idea is auto throttle to match the tankers speed, though that does really feel more like a real cheat rather than a help and I struggle less maintaining correct speed than I do with lining up correctly

Edited June 8, 2020 by Vertigo72

[speed-of-heat]

throttle control is a "hard" thing, the main trick is to keep it moving, if you ever have the throttle static its likely about to go bad... Throttle control is a sunction of how big an arc you have to play with on my warthog i recently went to this https://www.shapeways.com/product/9JAPAE26V/warthog-throttle-part-afterburner-detent-80?optionId=82333125 to increase the amount of throttle "throw" i have, it made a big difference.

 

Curves, not sure about the 14, but in the 18 i needed to put in some quite aggressive curves to get the fine control i wanted (28 or so) in order to AAR successfully YMMV...

[Evoman]

As a brave/stupid newbie who decided the F14 is the best module to learn DCS, I can fully understand where the OP is coming from. Ive a few 100 hours or so in the cat now, and a few hours of AAR trying, and I havent yet hooked up once, and I dont think Im even close to doing it regularly.

 

However, I dont really want an AI doing it for me. That would teach me nothing. Instead I want some "cheats" that help me do it myself. One such cheat already exists, its the info bar at the bottom, so at least in the F14 you have a good idea of your airspeed and you can much more easily learn how your throttle controls your airspeed and build up that muscle memory.

 

But I need more and I would really like some steering guidance too. its so hard to look out of the F14 and then there is an offset fuel probe to make things even harder. So maybe show me some fake HUD, much like the suspended rectangles that are shown in carrier landing tutorials, that show where I need to steer my nose, along with maybe some relative velocity indicators.

 

Another idea is auto throttle to match the tankers speed, though that does really feel more like a real cheat rather than a help and I struggle less maintaining correct speed than I do with lining up correctly

 

 

 

 

Your description of the types of aids you would like to have took me way back to my first flight sim experience as a kid which was ironically also with a Tomcat in the Top Gun game for the original Nintendo! It was the most difficult game I have ever played and finished because of my pure determination to be a great pilot some day. lol

The most difficult things to do in the game were also refueling and landing. But they did provide some aids to know what to do. Even now when ever I do refueling and landings I still recall some of those early on experiences and frustrations I had. But that just gives me more determination. Check out the video clip below of how it was to refuel and land in the Nintendo's Top Gun.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Evoman

[speed-of-heat]

I had this PM from someone who doesn't allow PM's back :

 

Hi!

 

just about those curves for AA refuelling with warthog stick/throttle

thrustmaster pedals.....HELP...lol!

my AA refuelling sux and would appreciate seeing the curves you use..

appreciated!

cheers:thumbup:

 

My curves are 28, deadzone 4 for both x and y,

 

my throttle is against the detent for shapeways so it likely wont help you, but this video from redkite will help you do the best with which ever one you have:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlL0tQzVEPg.

 

for rudders i use crosswinds so my curves there wont help you either ... but for aar take your feet off the pedals once you are formed up on the observation position on the tanker, they will only hurt your formation on it.

 

finally this video is excellent for AAR:

 

 

as is this one

 

 

 

hope that helps

[DimSim]

We definitely need easy/simplified AAR for casual players.

 

Veteran and purist players can continue to laugh at and deride casuals (or secretly enable if they want.)

 

Casual players may not have time, patients or good computer hardware to enjoy the game like others. They may only have 30 min free time slots to play a whole mission and don't even play regularly enough to know their aircraft and controls real well. You want to deny them casual fun to fly somewhere scenic and fire of some pretend weapons?

 

An aircraft like the Harrier could have a refuel at start or end of mission and add something, rather than enable unlimited fuel or just avoiding such missions.

[J-20]

I know it has been asked before but ED told me to reopen a new thread. I think we REALLY need an easy AAR option. It is easily the hardest part of DCS.

 

To those who will start raging: "This is a simulator!! not a game!!" i say: ask ED to remove easy comms, arcade flight model, active pause, immortal cheat, start airplane cheat, unlimited fuel, unlimited ammo, hide stick, auto align a/c to catapult etc...

 

Absolutely not!

If you want that, why don't you just go and play Ace Combat? This IS a simulator!!! NOT a game!!!!!!

 

What are you trying to do asking for cheat in a simulator? So you can trying to impress people who think you are playing a simulator? You need some self esteem dude.

Edited June 15, 2020 by J-20

[Deano87]

Nope. Get good at it like the rest of us did, with practice.

[SharpeXB]

They may only have 30 min free time slots to play a whole mission and don't even play regularly enough to know their aircraft and controls real well.

If you are only into short sessions, and that a perfectly fine way to enjoy DCS, then you don’t need to worry about AAR. There really aren’t many SP missions I’m aware of outside of the qualifications campaigns, which require AAR.

 

As a brave/stupid newbie who decided the F14 is the best module to learn DCS, I can fully understand where the OP is coming from. Ive a few 100 hours or so in the cat now, and a few hours of AAR trying, and I havent yet hooked up once, and I dont think Im even close to doing it regularly.

Change “a few hours” into a few weeks and then you’ll get it! :joystick:

Edited June 16, 2020 by SharpeXB

[randomTOTEN]

We definitely need easy/simplified AAR for casual players.

 

Veteran and purist players can continue to laugh at and deride casuals (or secretly enable if they want.)

 

Casual players may not have time, patients or good computer hardware to enjoy the game like others. They may only have 30 min free time slots to play a whole mission and don't even play regularly enough to know their aircraft and controls real well. You want to deny them casual fun to fly somewhere scenic and fire of some pretend weapons?

 

An aircraft like the Harrier could have a refuel at start or end of mission and add something, rather than enable unlimited fuel or just avoiding such missions.

There's an AAR instant action mission for the Viper, and it doesn't take more than about 10 minutes to build a scenario in the editor. It can for sure take 30 minutes to properly perform the entire procedure. This is an incredibly weak excuse. Get up there and do it!:thumbup:

Edited June 16, 2020 by randomTOTEN

[Rowan]

i say: ask ED to remove easy comms, arcade flight model, active pause, immortal cheat, start airplane cheat, unlimited fuel, unlimited ammo, hide stick, auto align a/c to catapult etc...

 

 

Sounds good, make it so ED.

[The LT]

Absolutely not!

If you want that, why don't you just go and play Ace Combat? This IS a simulator!!! NOT a game!!!!!!

 

What are you trying to do asking for cheat in a simulator? So you can trying to impress people who think you are playing a simulator? You need some self esteem dude.

This is a game.

[The LT]

Sounds good, make it so ED.

Sounds not so good.

[Rowan]

Sounds not so good.

 

 

Slacker.

[The LT]

Slacker.

Tester of all things DCS. Handy options to have. :)

[Baco]

Geez!!!

 

You guys need to get a life! if some one asking for an "Easy" feature threatens your self esteem or manhood... LOL

 

I personaly think it would be nice so we dont have to drop the "nuggets" off from cool long missions in our squad...

 

By the way we do have Quals in our squad but are NOT mandatory...

 

to each his own, Live and let live i say....

[Vertigo72]

Absolutely not!

If you want that, why don't you just go and play Ace Combat? This IS a simulator!!! NOT a game!!!!!!

 

What are you trying to do asking for cheat in a simulator? So you can trying to impress people who think you are playing a simulator? You need some self esteem dude.

 

Sounds like you derive a little too much self esteem from the fact you play DCS and your friends can not.

 

If easy to add changes to DCS can lower the bar for new players or converts from other sims, then that is in all our interest and we should embrace it. No one forces you to use those options.

 

Now I dont think having "easy AAR" will open the flood gates of IL2 or fsx pilots, but I sense a lot of misplaced elitism in this forum. Its one thing to want a sim that is as realistic as possible, its another to relish the fact its a small niche and actively discourage getting more players in to the game and have them enjoy it in whatever way they want, even if they like to fly with one button cold start, full icons, unlimited ammo and invincibility.

 

Just like some of us may occasionally like to fly a 747 or concorde simulator with an accurate flight model just to see what its like, but not give a hoot to learn to correct cold start procedure or mind ATC directions or airspace restriction, (serious) civilian pilots may want to occasionally blow stuff up in a realistic military sim without studying 3 months before achieving anything. Their money is just as valuable as yours and helps for your realism.

[PL_Harpoon]

Wow.

 

The sheer amount of smugness and arrogance in this thread is staggering.

 

 

 

Just because you've spent hours practicing AAR and spent life savings on the best hardware on the market doesn't mean everyone has to do it.

 

 

 

After all, DSC is a hobby at best, not an exam to get you into the actual Air Force.

 

 

Just for the record, I always play on max realism and have learned AAR on every plane I own.

[speed-of-heat]

speaking as someone who only just moved on to realistic comms, and i have only just started completing AAR i know get a joy out of the process of AAR.

 

i can say that it was as frustrating as hell, and that providing players an option to do something on "easy" is consistent with DCS, because its there already in other features... I wouldn't put it in the top ten of priorities list, but as a wishlist item sure, why not

[MisterVince]

I also think such a feature would be nice. I do not understand all the people saying "Yeah also you can just practice 30min every day and eventually you will catch it".

 

Some people can not spend 30min every now and then to learn to do it. Some people just fly casual missions with friends/family were each participant has different skill and hardware, some being able to AAR and others not. Therefore having such an "auto refuel" thing would enable the whole team to perform the same mission despite having different skill.

 

Besides your ability to refuel is also related to the stick you have. I personnaly only have a very old stick with a small throttle axis. It has deadzones and low precision axis, and even if you can use curves to smooth it, their is no such thing to control speed. I have tried a lot to AAR with the Mirage but I feel really limited by my stick.

 

Therefore, such an auto AAR would be a great ADDITION to DCS. From many reactions I have read, it seems some people feel threatened by it. Like "Ey I spent time to be able to AAR and now you make an auto AAR ? Did I spend time for nothing ?". If ED made this feature, it would be up to the server/mission planner to enable it or not, obviously.

[stormrider]

I also think such a feature would be nice. I do not understand all the people saying "Yeah also you can just practice 30min every day and eventually you will catch it".

 

Some people can not spend 30min every now and then to learn to do it. Some people just fly casual missions with friends/family were each participant has different skill and hardware, some being able to AAR and others not. Therefore having such an "auto refuel" thing would enable the whole team to perform the same mission despite having different skill.

 

Besides your ability to refuel is also related to the stick you have. I personnaly only have a very old stick with a small throttle axis. It has deadzones and low precision axis, and even if you can use curves to smooth it, their is no such thing to control speed. I have tried a lot to AAR with the Mirage but I feel really limited by my stick.

 

Therefore, such an auto AAR would be a great ADDITION to DCS. From many reactions I have read, it seems some people feel threatened by it. Like "Ey I spent time to be able to AAR and now you make an auto AAR ? Did I spend time for nothing ?". If ED made this feature, it would be up to the server/mission planner to enable it or not, obviously.

 

 

 

 

I agree 100%.

[SharpeXB]

I’m not necessarily against the feature but I don’t understand why it’s needed. If you are a short session casual player, you’ll never need AAR. Even realistic missions like the Red Flag Campaigns aren’t long enough to require it.

[draconus]

So you have scarce time and want to waste it on watching how the fuel flows... ok...

[wowbagger]

I’m not necessarily against the feature but I don’t understand why it’s needed. If you are a short session casual player, you’ll never need AAR. Even realistic missions like the Red Flag Campaigns aren’t long enough to require it.

 

 

Harrier low takeoff weight encourages lots of A-A refueling.