Help with jester as far as radar scan options

[sublime]

Hello

Im experienced. I can use jester WELL. My weakness is only both I cannot fully RIO on my own and I seem to understand in theory what jester commands for say elevation etc would do for radar.

However it doesnt seem to do phooey.

Ive got plenty of kills but nothing due to me using the radar to look up while i hid low or whatever.

Are there good tutorials on this SPECIFIC hester functions in detail ?

Not just what they are supposed to do but actualy do

[Horns]

Hello

Im experienced. I can use jester WELL. My weakness is only both I cannot fully RIO on my own and I seem to understand in theory what jester commands for say elevation etc would do for radar.

However it doesnt seem to do phooey.

Ive got plenty of kills but nothing due to me using the radar to look up while i hid low or whatever.

Are there good tutorials on this SPECIFIC hester functions in detail ?

Not just what they are supposed to do but actualy do

Afraid I can't help but I can commiserate. Nothing more frustrating than seeing the target on the TID and giving the right commands, only to hear Jester's strangled cry of "unable man!".

 

Hope you find an answer.

[Weasel19]

I'm in the same boat

[captain_dalan]

Using elevation through Jester menu can be tricky.

 

The first rule is, DO NOT under any circumstances use the scan low, medium low, high and medium high options.

 

If you must point the antenna manually, use the scan at distance options. This means you have some idea about how far the target is from yourself and how high it is. It also means you need to know what scan cone you are using. Then you have to do the math in your head (trigonometry in essence) or use a pre-made table of altitudes at distance values to set it right. I.E. you are 10000ft, the bandit at 20000ft, and you are 50NM away from each other. You need to center your scan in such a way, that you upper or lower scan boundaries do not come bellow or above (respectively) 20000ft for the current scan cone. Ideally, you want to have the target in the middle of your cone, that is, you want your cone to reach above and bellow equally, from where the target is positioned.

 

As you can imagine, this is not always easy to pull, especially while you are being fired upon and have multiple targets. This is why we have RIO's in the back. But it can be done if you are persistent about it.

[Sublimearrepentido]

I suck at mafs

Ok if youbselect phoenix even if you dont have any does it set tws

Usnt tws the best "cone"

How does ranfe figuee in? Further away biggrr cine?

My problem is ewr or awavs telling me somethings there and jester not seeing a alpha strike its insane

Youd think in the dce iranian f14 campaign low level rasar set med high or high would be best. Hide in ground clutter hit and run rhe alphabstrikes at 20k ib open skies.

Now i know why that didnt work.

So what do am I do then if I dont know how to get in the back seat and im not learning to do it? Range wise I mean?

Also ya other questions. My orginal eeply was deleted and i lost tsome thoughts ill be back thx

[captain_dalan]

1. Ok if you select phoenix even if you dont have any does it set tws

Isnt tws the best "cone"

 

 

2. How does ranfe figuee in? Further away biggrr cine?

3. My problem is ewr or awacs telling me somethings there and jester not seeing a alpha strike its insane

4. So what do am I do then if I dont know how to get in the back seat and im not learning to do it? Range wise I mean?

1. TWS is good (besides guiding your 54's) because it provides track files, and additional target info, such as altitude, range and vectors on your TID repeater. Is it the best? If the above is what you need ATM. then yes. But it's not the "largest" cone. If sheer scope and scan volume is what you need (like when searching for contacts you don't yet have on scope) then RWS is better. It is both wider and "taller". But it is also slower and provides less info. So the rule of the thumbs is, when far away and building initial situational awareness, go for RWS. Find where all the contacts are and build a mental picture of what is going on. As you close in (depending on the circumstances usually around 50NM) and prepare for weapons deployment, you switch to TWS. When you do, MAKE SURE the acquired contacts will still remain inside the cone. As TWS has a narrower cone, both horizontal and vertical wise, contacts at the edge of the RWS will disappear as you switch to TWS. So adjust your heading and altitude accordingly.

 

2.Yes. The default cone for TWS (4 BAR) covers roughly 10000ft above and bellow your nose line at 30NM. That means, if you fly level, at 30NM, with your cone centered, at an altitude of 10000ft, you should be able to detect any non-notching, non-terrain masking contacts, from 0ft to 20000ft ASL. At 60NM this will get from +/- 10000ft to +/- 20000ft. At 90NM to +/- 30000ft. Use this as a rough orientation of your engagement zone.

 

3. Use the above scale to home in on unknown contacts. I.E. if your AWACS gives you a BRA of 000 and 50 NM, angels 20, by flying north at 20000ft, you should be able to pickup the targets as they are co altitude with you. You should also be able to pickup roughly everything from 5000 to 35000ft, unless it's in a notch or masked by terrain. Alternatively, if you are very low, say at 5000ft and want to remain there, you can tell jester to manually set the elevation at 50NM to be 20000ft. Just remember to be in a level flight while doing so. Once your radar points up and you pickup the contacts, you can switch to TWS Auto and let the weapon system track them on its own.

 

 

4. Use Jester's wheel. Especially RWS, TWS and elevation at range options. What ever direction your take, make these adjustments as far out as possible. Once the targets close in bellow 50NM, you most likely won't have the time to both find them and track them. No unless you are very quick both in your math and your manipulation of the Jester's menu. Alternatively, you may try to use shortcuts or voice attack, but i can't help you with that. Never used either myself!

 

EDIT: one finer point. By using the above info, you can also setup your radar so it will scan from dead ahead to above, or dead ahead bellow you.

 

I.E., in TWS-default, 4 BAR, if you order Jester to scan 10000ft above you at 30NM, (20000 if you are at 10000) then the radar will scan from 10000ft to 30000ft at 30NM. Very useful if you are bellow the contacts and want to remain in a lookup position.

 

The opposite can be done if you are at say 20000ft. You can order Jester to scan at 10000ft at 30Nm, and now your cone will scan from 20000ft o 0ft at 30NM. Useful if you are above your contacts and want to remain there, look-down situation.

 

Just take into account that as the targets get closer and closer, they WILL get out of your cone. The closer they are, the easier and quicker they'll do it. So maneuver and adjust elevation accordingly.

Edited May 23, 2020 by captain_dalan

[Sublimearrepentido]

This is gonna be in parts. Sorry how my brain works.

1.

Tws yes - and wait what about my phoenixes!?!?

I think also I enciuntered the bug dude said where ghost contacts show for one on TWS. Ive had some MEAN Looking packages , turnes 45 degrees and came backnto engage and its 2 f16s again? But what about guiding my phoenixes!?!? I thought at least i could.ripple them hang arnd letting em guide for 30 or 4 seconds and start evading th counter salvo?!

In practice with no jester iff i twa and 'zap" targets with STT to hope jester will cal out a friendly.and maybe try to figure out from contrails or smoke plumes what it is ( WAAAY TO DANGEROUS IN IRIAF F14 DCE TO GET CLOSE ENOUGH YOULL DIE!)

Mostly Im.on tws for SA and I use the STT choose target menu to keep track of my closest enemy. Which jester inexplicably never keeps highlit or even goes through a lot.

This guy is crucial because at 40-25 miles phoenixes need ti go out. Against USN 40 miles and god help.you. USAF is a lil morr manageable. Theyll still kill you but you got a little extra range.

Ok TO be clear. DONT MESS WITH EL AND AZ. MESS WITH EL AT RANGE???

And RWS to search, second TWS before engsgement and during for 54s?

Once I switch from rws like youbsaid to tws auto the previous settings are erased I assume then?

Another question. If Im flying a campaign in a US jet but my team is RUSSIA (i.e. dce iran camp) or RED side, are the BRA call outs metric or imperial!?

I have instruments to work on native for their nation but not any radio stuff. It seems like they used different stuff every time

Thanks for your advice

[sublime]

@ironmike

@draconus

[captain_dalan]

This is gonna be in parts. Sorry how my brain works.

1.

a. Tws yes - and wait what about my phoenixes!?!?

 

 

b. I think also I enciuntered the bug dude said where ghost contacts show for one on TWS. Ive had some MEAN Looking packages , turnes 45 degrees and came backnto engage and its 2 f16s again? But what about guiding my phoenixes!?!?

 

c. I thought at least i could.ripple them hang arnd letting em guide for 30 or 4 seconds and start evading th counter salvo?!

 

d. In practice with no jester iff i twa and 'zap" targets with STT to hope jester will cal out a friendly.and maybe try to figure out from contrails or smoke plumes what it is ( WAAAY TO DANGEROUS IN IRIAF F14 DCE TO GET CLOSE ENOUGH YOULL DIE!)

 

 

e. Mostly Im.on tws for SA and I use the STT choose target menu to keep track of my closest enemy. Which jester inexplicably never keeps highlit or even goes through a lot.

This guy is crucial because at 40-25 miles phoenixes need ti go out. Against

 

 

 

f. Ok TO be clear. DONT MESS WITH EL AND AZ. MESS WITH EL AT RANGE??? And RWS to search, second TWS before engsgement and during for 54s? Once I switch from rws like youbsaid to tws auto the previous settings are erased I assume then?

 

 

g.Another question. If Im flying a campaign in a US jet but my team is RUSSIA (i.e. dce iran camp) or RED side, are the BRA call outs metric or imperial!?

I have instruments to work on native for their nation but not any radio stuff. It seems like they used different stuff every time

Thanks for your advice

a. What about them?

 

b. That is not always a bug. Ghosts can and will appear under certain circumstances, which involve but are not limited to hard maneuvering targets, WCS limitations, notching....... to avoid this, you need to fly in such a way that would diminish your own restrictions and negate (if possible) enemy action. Alternatively, see points d. and e.

 

c. Ripple firing your 54's against small and nimble targets like enemy fighters should be avoided or the best of cases only used when proper window of opportunity is present. I.E. when targets are fairly close to one another and-or fly in a predictable pattern.

 

d. That is just not true. Jester almost always IFF's the targets, it's just that sometimes he doesn't say it out loud. Especially with STT. If you want to be sure what you fire at is friendly, look at your TID repeater. If the locked target is a diamond, then it is hostile, no matter if Jester said it or not.

 

e. Dropping a lock is not Jester's fault. It's the limitation of the radar-weapon system. To keep the lock stable, you need to maneuver in a way that counters enemy attempts to break it.

 

f. Yep on all accounts. Unless you want to absolutely sure you don't lose the lock. In such a case, you may be better off STT-ing.

 

g. I have no idea. I don't fly campaigns and very complex or long missions on general principle. I don't think DCS as a simulation is there yet. Not until the AI and missile guidance receive an overhaul. All my experience comes from self made missions (mostly designed to train certain aspects of navigation and BVR engagements) and online play on open servers.

 

Cheers! :thumbup:

[Sublimearrepentido]

A. So if tws is bugged are they?! And i found out you cant use them in rws shooting...

Skip to D

D Look seriously Im not just making this up to troll. I love the game. I opened a theead asking for a simple jester interrogate cmd because tcs is dicey va other f14s or fighters. And no not MP, try the DCE Iranian f14 vs US campaign. Fun but hard. Its not plain wrong. He does call it out a lot and Im specifically referring to STT. but either it glitches when he has a lot of readouts and gets spoken over or something, but Ive had 10 plus incidents in the last 2 weeks (in over 100 missions easy. Its not gamebreaking but almost all wouldnt have happened) in all cases but perhaps 2 I had the target locked and was unsure if it was friendly or not for over a minute. Stt lock. And jester did call out... except he merely did the TARGET! xx Miles! After over a minute Id cave and fire. Against red air its dangerous. I suspect the campaign will be really spicey when the A hits. As it is, fighting other Tomcats, you CANT afford to hesitate firing.

F. Again.. im not erich hartman. But i only.fly this for dcs and occasionally the huey. So in effect this is all I play. Played since release. Love it. Maybebthebtarget notches me, but Ive seen others complain. Almost all I dont know. A few I do know at least are good sticks and know their ps and q.s im not talking about losing locks in crazy situations. Im talking like a non maneuvering enemy F18A (standing in for A6) flying slower than it can go max, steady, no a2a, with about 16 mk 82s. At 30 miles. Locked variously at 30 20 10. Lock would.drop for. No reason, Im on autopilot same altitude heading directly at and another time.astern. i have other examples. Again its not game breaking... still, i remember some people got banned complaining about missile behavior ed insisted was fine and suddenly they revamped missiles and adressed rhe exact complaints (lol. That the missiles tracked you thru ground)

F.oh. well i mean.. if youre still locked down try dce. I wont mess with campaigns either. Dce is different man. It feels real. Damage is persistent. You can affect the war but only realistically. Youll see one sides ewr or sams ability get degraded. What i mean is you affect it is if you say kill 2 enemy awacs it will probablt have an outsized effect on the ais abilities.

Just check it out

Thanks for your answers.man!!

[EnDSchultz]

Just a note, since I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, for scanning altitude/distance, your built-in kneeboard has a few graphs for just that purpose!

[Sublimearrepentido]

Thats what those are?

Look let me clarify. Im sort of an idiot with math theory and physics. I can do some regular calculations. I can fly rhe plane except not refuel yet. Im fairly sucessful in combat in dce though.

But those graphs? Mean nothing to me.

I have been using RWS at 200 NM to find targets. I switch the TWS and MAYBE 100nm when I decide to attack. Since Im playing iran hard right now tactics are different - phoenix launches HAVE to be (since I cant use the raddar myself even if I learn at 500 ft its nuts) done high and in a dash. It helps improve PK. Taking phoenixes or more than 1 is like cheating but its so hard i dont care so i offen take 4 or 6.

Anyways..the cone concept I knew about bur mentioning it helped and rws helps. Switching to tws is good tho it sucks i wish jester would when on multiple tws targets either toggle thru them more or leave it on the closest for range. I constantly go stt choose target to see the range and dont select anything

I ripple a couple off at 40 miles even for fighters. Flying for the US you can wait untul 30 or less and get a almost def kill. Flying as iran in a single f14 or 2 ship vs USN and USAF its insanely dangerous even at 50miles. At 50 miles youre getting actively locked and missiles may be enroute. They wont warn until pitbull and dash towadds them itll be too late.

So its a game of nerves and timing. I let a couple go, the rest at 25-35nm

A few times Ive gotten 3 or 4 kills. Usually 1 or 2. Sometimes nada.

Another good one is firing a phoenix at 40, flying at a right angle on burner diving away. Evade and then fly away with them.on your six in zone 5. After you get some distance (only a couple min tho) pull a looop, and fire the aim 54s as soon as they shoe up on the radar. Ive caught many a pilot that way. Indeed Ive also gotten the aim54 in maddog acm mode that way, when surprised by a 6 o clock call I have flipped the switch and looped and fired 2 phoenixes upside down with my nose starting to point downwards. They track the enemy welll

Anyways sorry for the OT---

The Iranian campaign is really good because NO DATALINK. And tbose EWR sites WILL get taken out. So you end up needing to use the F14. Historically the iranians used f14s as almost awacs in the 80s.. i may mot have a human rio but i know I mist be able to get more out of the radar than I do now.

One worrisome thing is despite what anyone says my aim54s often strike the same plane and I see ghost contacts alot. How do I know? Theyte there. Turn away turn back gone. They come back. Turn away turn back gone. Id say oh theyre going behind terrain or dying but I checked the track file.

[captain_dalan]

A. So if tws is bugged are they?! And i found out you cant use them in rws shooting...

Skip to D

D Look seriously Im not just making this up to troll. I love the game. I opened a theead asking for a simple jester interrogate cmd because tcs is dicey va other f14s or fighters. And no not MP, try the DCE Iranian f14 vs US campaign. Fun but hard. Its not plain wrong. He does call it out a lot and Im specifically referring to STT. but either it glitches when he has a lot of readouts and gets spoken over or something, but Ive had 10 plus incidents in the last 2 weeks (in over 100 missions easy. Its not gamebreaking but almost all wouldnt have happened) in all cases but perhaps 2 I had the target locked and was unsure if it was friendly or not for over a minute. Stt lock. And jester did call out... except he merely did the TARGET! xx Miles! After over a minute Id cave and fire. Against red air its dangerous. I suspect the campaign will be really spicey when the A hits. As it is, fighting other Tomcats, you CANT afford to hesitate firing.

F. Again.. im not erich hartman. But i only.fly this for dcs and occasionally the huey. So in effect this is all I play. Played since release. Love it. Maybebthebtarget notches me, but Ive seen others complain. Almost all I dont know. A few I do know at least are good sticks and know their ps and q.s im not talking about losing locks in crazy situations. Im talking like a non maneuvering enemy F18A (standing in for A6) flying slower than it can go max, steady, no a2a, with about 16 mk 82s. At 30 miles. Locked variously at 30 20 10. Lock would.drop for. No reason, Im on autopilot same altitude heading directly at and another time.astern. i have other examples. Again its not game breaking... still, i remember some people got banned complaining about missile behavior ed insisted was fine and suddenly they revamped missiles and adressed rhe exact complaints (lol. That the missiles tracked you thru ground)

F.oh. well i mean.. if youre still locked down try dce. I wont mess with campaigns either. Dce is different man. It feels real. Damage is persistent. You can affect the war but only realistically. Youll see one sides ewr or sams ability get degraded. What i mean is you affect it is if you say kill 2 enemy awacs it will probablt have an outsized effect on the ais abilities.

Just check it out

Thanks for your answers.man!!

Sorry, you lost me there. Must be the language barrier. Glad to have helped, have a nice week! :thumbup:

[draconus]

@captain_dalan: Why did you suggest to keep level while ordering radar elevation for Jester?

 

 

@Sublime: Sorry, no offence, but you're hard to read and you ask more and more questions every post like machinegun fire ;)

Keep it simple:

RWS - for searching and get SA on the area. You don't fire here. You need lock or TWS designations.

TWS - to prepare and fire against multiple targets and keep 54s up to their activation.

STT - to prepare and fire against one target at a time up to the hit.

When in merge or close enough (let's say less than 15nm) use pilot radar modes for radar missiles and gun, SEAM to lock with AIM-9.

 

When I use russian birds and also have set native comms I hear comms in russian and they use metric system - alt in meters, distance in km and bearing/heading normally in degrees.

 

IMHO good campaigns and missions give more immersion (than what you say about DCE) with their voiceovers and real life behaviors like targets bugging out, our flights retreating, sometimes good battles, random situations and action changes, new orders coming - yes, scripted, but life-like. I personally don't use DCE because of mods intollerance ;)

[captain_dalan]

@captain_dalan: Why did you suggest to keep level while ordering radar elevation for Jester?

 

 

A relic from the times we didn't have TWS Auto. It made things easier. I mean, the math and the use of Jester menu. If your nose is level when you order a look-up elevation at certain distance, you can use the math for your look-up every time you are level and you need it again. And it's much easier to be level then exactly the same nose high-low when you first requested the elevation change.

 

If you are really good with the math and fast on the menus, this is a non-issue of course, but i'm not (that good) :megalol:

 

 

IMHO good campaigns and missions give more immersion (than what you say about DCE) with their voiceovers and real life behaviors like targets bugging out, our flights retreating, sometimes good battles, random situations and action changes, new orders coming - yes, scripted, but life-like. I personally don't use DCE because of mods intollerance

 

By far. But the fact that a flight of 2 will often need to achieve a 2/3 missile success ratio to accomplish a goal, in a sim in which missiles have a 50% chance of missing completely and the wingman is often next to useless, make many dedicated missions-campaigns frustrating at times.

 

Just going on an open server and blowing some steam works better for me. For now. For more serious activities, i prefer to make my own missions, usually aimed at concentrated training, unless someone made them before me.