EGTL and EGIW

[TonyG]

Without understanding the code behind it, it seems the EG call is too sensitive. A number of pilots in our group have been working on carrier landings for quite some time, and we're seeing more than our fair share of EG calls. We all have our throttles in constant motion to stay on GS, and believe think that this is contributing to sensing the throttles coming back, despite being at mil by the time we hit the deck.

 

Even with the throttles at mil in the wires, I've received EGIW calls. Is anyone else seeing this? How is the LSO defining EGTL and EGIW, RPM?

 

 

 

Did this come up during testing? I saw in Jar's video he got an EGIW, and he's made more than a few passes at the boat in DCS....

[BMGZ06]

Yes I consistently get EGIW even when I know I am just trying to stay on GL as well. I am not cutting power to slam on the deck. Gets a bit frustrating not getting ok 3 or 4 wires because of it.

 

Have you guys noticed the burble effect as well? It was causing everyone in the server tonight to balloon all the time at the ramp.

[TonyG]

Definitely a different feel IC behind the boat. It seems ‘liftier’ there. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the burble would cause a sinking event as it blocks the wind coming down the angle for a few seconds. As that wind comes off the wings, I’d expect a little settle. Seems to almost be the opposite.

 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5433/b9628e9b547ff685a2e22fb218d9fd62d40e.pdf?_ga=2.106639489.347595032.1590123003-1454110769.1590123003

[BMGZ06]

Definitely a different feel IC behind the boat. It seems ‘liftier’ there. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the burble would cause a sinking event as it blocks the wind coming down the angle for a few seconds. As that wind comes off the wings, I’d expect a little settle. Seems to almost be the opposite.

 

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5433/b9628e9b547ff685a2e22fb218d9fd62d40e.pdf?_ga=2.106639489.347595032.1590123003-1454110769.1590123003

 

Ya I do not think the burble is active yet. I think there is some changes to the overall physics though. Everyone in our server felt it and had a hard time getting aboard. I went into my stable version and flew the case 1 and it felt so much easier. I think everyone is having issues getting a good trap now. Our mission planner said he made sure the wind is over the landing deck as usual but the planes just seem to act differently now in close. Much harder to keep the VV pointed at the crotch and leave it there like before. I noticed landing on normal runways feels like the wind is far more of an influence than before. Hey that is going to be true in real life though. I took lessons 24 years ago and remember very well how a little cross wind can really ruin your day.

[tees]

Yes I consistently get EGIW even when I know I am just trying to stay on GL as well. I am not cutting power to slam on the deck. Gets a bit frustrating not getting ok 3 or 4 wires because of it.

 

Have you guys noticed the burble effect as well? It was causing everyone in the server tonight to balloon all the time at the ramp.

Same here before in : Bankler's CASE 1 Recovery Trainer i got 72+ most time in SC 95% i got

 

--EG im getting frustrated if i try mill then i over shoot

 

 

 

bug3wire.trk

Edited May 22, 2020 by tees

[BMGZ06]

Same here before in : Bankler's CASE 1 Recovery Trainer i got 72+ most time in SC 95% i got

 

--EG im getting frustrated if i try mill then i over shoot

 

 

 

 

 

ED would have posted in the changelog about any physics changes I think. I looked and it says nothing about it. So maybe it is just the size of the new Carriers having a totally different impact on how the wind reacts around them? No clue but I am not the only that noticed clearly. That and the 12 people I flew with last night all noticed it as well. I am all for a bigger challenge. What I want to understand is if this is true to form and what ED intended or not. Maybe this is what real pilots have to deal with even in the best conditions. If so then, I will adapt to it over time I am sure.

 

Go back into the stable version if you can and fly case 1 mission. See if you notice the difference. I did.

[ESzczesniak]

I too am seeing this...frequent EG without seeming appropriate (IW for me).

 

 

As to the different feeling, I think it may have something to do with turbulence and wind settings. Flying the bug in open beta with SC subbed in to Bankler's trainer, it feels very similar to me. But the SC recovery missions have 15+ kts of wind, with 30 kts at angels 2. Perhaps they don't have the burble in yet, but the wind alone seems to be making this a bit more real.

[monacoBMW]

I got three of these in a row during the case 1 qualification mission. My first two attempts were _OK_ and I've had hundreds of landings on the old carrier, so I'd like to think I'm not actually cutting power floating into the wires like the EG score implies. I know better than to do that.

 

I will be modulating the throttles a bit all the way in but that's pretty much required. I can only assume that it counts as an EGIW if there's "too much" throttle movement, but I've been extra careful and trying to be as smooth as possible. Still an EGIW. It's really frustrating

[BMGZ06]

I got three of these in a row during the case 1 qualification mission. My first two attempts were _OK_ and I've had hundreds of landings on the old carrier, so I'd like to think I'm not actually cutting power floating into the wires like the EG score implies. I know better than to do that.

 

I will be modulating the throttles a bit all the way in but that's pretty much required. I can only assume that it counts as an EGIW if there's "too much" throttle movement, but I've been extra careful and trying to be as smooth as possible. Still an EGIW. It's really frustrating

 

I just did a landing in my squads server with wind over the landing area as much as it can be. I was able to get a (OK) 3WIRE (BC). No EGIW. The reason is in the missions ED made the wind is 15 knots over the bow and creates some turbulence around the island perhaps and screwing with line up and also makes you float or balloon up then you cut some power to arrest sink rate. Basically the missions have cross wind. By the time you hit the wires the engine response is not fast enough maybe and that is why it is picking it up as we are cutting the power before touch down. I am speculating of course. I know nothing, don't listen to me.:helpsmilie:

[TonyG]

We’re using Airboss to drive the carrier into the wind and provide 25 knots of WOD down the angle.

 

We’re not using any of the canned ED missions. We have varying wind and weather conditions with 5 different missions that cycle every 4 hours. While the carrier speed differs, the WOD is within 1-2 knots of 25.

[BMGZ06]

We’re using Airboss to drive the carrier into the wind and provide 25 knots of WOD down the angle.

 

We’re not using any of the canned ED missions. We have varying wind and weather conditions with 5 different missions that cycle every 4 hours. While the carrier speed differs, the WOD is within 1-2 knots of 25.

 

That sounds fun. I would like to try that out. I have no idea how to install that MOOSE stuff though

[TonyG]

Come check out our group. We’ve got a few gun guys, I’m a car guy, and we do lots of boat flying. I can talk you through some of the MOOSE stuff and it looks like we’re both Pacific Time Zone.

 

Link is in my sig to our website and there’s a discord link on the site.

[Tepnox]

Having same difficulties getting EGIW almost every time.

 

No matter what I do - i also tested not touching the throttle at all before hitting the deck.

 

Very frustrating when trying to improve and not finding the error.

[Sandman1330]

Yeah, same.

 

Probably because I find a tendency to float in close, so I have to reduce power a smidge just before the ramp, otherwise I go from centered ball to high ball / bolter. Alternately I’ve been able to hold 1-2 dots low on ball, then without touching throttle I’ve been able to get _OK_ 4 wires, though I don’t like this solution. In both cases I go full burner as soon as I hit the deck.

 

In my mission I have 30kts down the angle (15kts ship speed, 15kts wind 18* left of BRC), so I don’t think island burble or anything like that are a factor. It almost feels like a ground effect...

[monacoBMW]

The 3 wire landing I just had tonight still returned an EGIW even though I 100% did not touch the throttles when I was in close. ED plz.

[garf]

It seems you need to be at MIL on touchdown or EGIW occurs!

[Nealius]

I've only gotten one EGIW so far, and that was my own fault for flying high and cutting the throttles just a bit to snag #4.

 

But, I have an ingrained habit of slamming MIL a fraction of a second before hitting the deck. I guess that's keeping the EG calls away.

[BMGZ06]

I have now made it habit to slowly add power over the ramp and tehn go mil just before touchdown and no EGIW or other EG grades. Finally getting (OK) passes with no other letters to make me depressed. Still hoping there is some fix for the crazy bright ball light that makes it impossible to see if im high or low until in close when the bloom or glow effect goes away. Also cant see deck lights at night until 1 mil or less. Someone else in the server last night had the same issue with deck lights who doesn't use VR. It seems to be a render distance issue.

[mattag08]

If you're flying the F-14, I've noticed that the LSO seems specifically tuned for the F-18 only. Don't expect anything accurate out of him for the F-14 at this point. I'm sure it will be updated in the future.

[Sandman1330]

If you're flying the F-14, I've noticed that the LSO seems specifically tuned for the F-18 only. Don't expect anything accurate out of him for the F-14 at this point. I'm sure it will be updated in the future.

 

Concur.

 

I think not going into burner in the wires (as dictated by natops for F14B) leaves one open to EGIW as well.

[Tusky]

Bumping this post up again.

 

I just got an EGIW while landing but I am sure I did not and put throttle to MIL the moment I touched down. Something still not right yet...

[Mr. Crow]

As a side note, which may be related to the problem, I was testing some non-normal procedures with the hornet earlier today. While landing with one engine out, I got the now infamous EG, while still catching the 3 wire, even though I was at 80% to 90% of engine RPM the whole approach and went to mil power just prior to landing. In this instance, I believe the simulation is reading one of the engines at idle/off position and simply causing the LSO to give the EG remark. 

[Sandman1330]

Is anyone else still having issues with this? I am, though I'm admittedly a bit out of practice, it seems I can't get a solid pass (according to the LSO anyway). If I'm reducing power in close, it's to keep the ball from going high, not to land...

 

*Edit - So I decided to take some video with the control indicator up so I could self debrief, and perhaps post it on here for other's opinions on whether there's an issue with the grading... I did about 4 passes while recording, and nailed all of them. 3/4 wires, all _OK_, even one where I'm pretty sure I DID EGTL!  Maybe I'm just rusty.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Sandman1330