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How does this plane compare to the F86 Sabre


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I own the F86 Sabre but found it very difficult to fly as soon as I left the basics like taking off.

I understand that Mig 15 is a similar plane. So how is it with regard to quality of content like missions tutorials compared to F86 ? How easy is it to fly and fight in ? I have only had time to try the startup and take off tutorial

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I own the F86 Sabre but found it very difficult to fly as soon as I left the basics like taking off.

I understand that Mig 15 is a similar plane. So how is it with regard to quality of content like missions tutorials compared to F86 ?

 

It is pretty similar, it has 5 training missions, 3 single missions and 23 Quick start missions (distributed on 4 Maps, many similar to each other). It has no built-in Campaign.

 

For comparison, the Sabre has 9 training missions, 6 single missions and 23 Quick start missions on 4 maps. It has no built-in Campaign.

 

Both are hampered by lack of period assets, and that is probably the reason why there are not many User missions for them. I edited a set for the Mig-15 and had to resort to using Mods and the WW2 Assets Pack:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=233110

 

How easy is it to fly and fight in ?

 

The -15 is easy to fly but hard to master, I flew it for a while, more to experience the evolution between planes like the P-51 and the early jets, rather than intending to do any multiplayer air combat.

 

I have only had time to try the startup and take off tutorial

 

Not good .. nothing is better than your own experience, you should take advantage of the opportunity of the current free-to-try and actually try the aircraft yourself :) instead of relying on someone else's opinions.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Eduardo

 

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Not good .. nothing is better than your own experience, you should take advantage of the opportunity of the current free-to-try and actually try the aircraft yourself :) instead of relying on someone else's opinions.

 

 

After posting this I did tried the AA gun tutorial. Here I noticed the plane was very slow in its turning and roll. Is the plane like this or has it bad performence on my computer ?

Other planes are better in this regard.

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The aircraft was known to have a reasonably slow roll rate as compared to the Sabre. It's particularly bad at the higher speeds. MiG 15 does well in climb against the Sabre although it's worth noting it wasn't supposed to be that much better than the F model Sabre but in game it does still seem to outclimb it.

 

The MiGs party trick is acceleration, so boom and zoom tactics are your best bet. You're going to struggle to out turn an AI F86 (or at least I do).

 

I recently bought both the F86 and the MiG 15. I like the MiG more but from a game point of view, it doesn't really have enough content I certainly only got it because it was on sale.

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acceleration is good but 'boom and zoom' is not how you abuse acceleration

mig is terrible at high speeds, do not dive with it

roll is mediocre to bad depending on speed, but pitch rates should be snappy

 

the sabre is already an easy aircraft but if you can't handle even that then dont expect to catch a break with the mig

hahaha hey look at me i surely know more about aviation and coding than actual industry professionals hired for their competency because i have read jalopnik and wikipedia i bet theyve never even heard of google LOL

 

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acceleration is good but 'boom and zoom' is not how you abuse acceleration

mig is terrible at high speeds, do not dive with it

roll is mediocre to bad depending on speed, but pitch rates should be snappy

 

the sabre is already an easy aircraft but if you can't handle even that then dont expect to catch a break with the mig

 

 

I would say the roll is terrible slow compared to even the other Migs. And the Mig is fighter right ? Then how can it survive in dogfight when turning is so slow ?

Regarding the F86 Sabre feeling difficult. Made that judgement only after trying the navigation session a couple of times and found keeping the altitude difficult. Maybe with a bit of more exercise and patient I might change my mind about it.

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I would say the roll is terrible slow compared to even the other Migs. And the Mig is fighter right ? Then how can it survive in dogfight when turning is so slow ?...

 

How Bf-109 can survive against I-16 turning so slow? :)

 

For Mig-15 the primary target was B-29, not F-86 or F-84.

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I eat AI sabres for breakfast in my MiG. Literally, the nevada dogfight instant action is my daily dose of BFM.

 

The MiG is not an easy plane. It will stall. It will mach tuck. It will drop wings at inopportune moments. She does seem to have a little more power than the sabre, but not enough to extend at will from them. You need to fly it with care, attention, patience and no small dose of luck.

 

The best thing about the MiG are the guns however. Such fun. No pansy ratatat, but two big honking 23mm Soviet hate dispensers with a 37mm cyka blyat blyat gun thrown in for good measure. One hit from that and it's all over. So good.

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I would say the roll is terrible slow compared to even the other Migs. And the Mig is fighter right ? Then how can it survive in dogfight when turning is so slow ?

Regarding the F86 Sabre feeling difficult. Made that judgement only after trying the navigation session a couple of times and found keeping the altitude difficult. Maybe with a bit of more exercise and patient I might change my mind about it.

 

It is a characteristic shared by more than a few Russian fighters of the time, the -17 and -19 also suffered from low roll rates at high speed and it was mainly due to their control system.

 

So if you find those aircraft roll rate slow in the game, it's nothing strange and there is nothing wrong with the way their flight envelops are simulated in the game, they were so in real life.

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I own the F86 Sabre but found it very difficult to fly as soon as I left the basics like taking off.

I understand that Mig 15 is a similar plane. So how is it with regard to quality of content like missions tutorials compared to F86 ? How easy is it to fly and fight in ? I have only had time to try the startup and take off tutorial

 

If you like the F-86, you'll love the MiG-15. It's not the plane, it's the gun. And I'm not talking about the two "little" ones that are only 23mm :)

 

Actually, with the exception of top speed, the MiG out-performs the Sabre. It has a higher thrust to weight ratio. It will accelerate and climb better, and has a higher sustained turning rate.

 

The F-86, however, has a much better control system. It's very responsive, whereas the MiG's controls will feel a bit 'mushy' to you after flying the Sabre. In short, the MiG is more work to fly, and probably harder to fly well.

 

Both modules are great though and if you already have the F-86 then the MiG-15 is a sure bet!

 

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That gun makes me come back to this plane every now and then. It's much more rewarding than the GAU-8 - and I like to use it against ground targets. Facing off some IR threats with this is the real challenge. Feels so great when they get those 37mm in the face after failing to shoot you down.

 

And just flying alone is just great. Needs a lot of fuel management here, I could swear the engine guzzles 100l of fuel in less than half a minute if you firewall the throttle down low. You can really watch the fuel gauge needle go down in no time. Has less range than a MiG-29 running on full AB like that. But flying a bit conservative and going up increases the range and uptime vastly.

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These two are such a great match up, so similar, yet so different.

 

Though, I must say, if you though F-86 was difficult, MiG will probably not be what you are looking for.

 

Very broadly:

-F-86 has quite a bit better instantenous turn potential, rolls a lot better, dives really well, and has a higher top speed. 6 high fire rate and flat shooting .50 cals, all around the nose, couple with a decent gun sight makes it decently capable at hitting things, but as it stands, they are among the weaker and more frustrating guns in DCS due to damage model being what it is. Visibility out of cockpit is excellent, magnificent, lovely! Her controls are lovely, only when you get close to Mach 1 will you feel roll controls getting real wonky.

 

-MiG-15 has lots of thrust for its weight. Its acceleration is much better, and climb rate is also much better. Also thanks to having lots of power, if fight drags down to a slow speed turnnig contest, MiG can sustain turns better than the Saber. However, her controls are a lot more clunky overall, and requires a good effort from pilot to extract these strengths. Moreover, as your speed gets closer to Mach 1, aircraft's controls will become very sluggish. Also, she's more capricious, as AoA increases, she'll complain and fight you a lot more than the Saber. Guns are a lot different too. 2 x 23mm and 1 x 37mm cannons have less velocity and less fire rate compared to F-86, and gunsight isn't nearly as sophisticated, but when you hit, unlike the Saber's guns, these will obliterate the target. Finally, there's the canopy. From a cursory look from outside, it looks like a similar bubble canopy. This erroneous feeling gets dissipated immediately inside the cockpit. Seems like russians took all the efforts to make visibility as bad as it can be, with very thick framing, as well as a full length strut at the top blocking vision in imporant directions.

 

Then there's air to ground potential:

Saber has quite a few options: I love HVAR rockets, because while they do decent damage if you can hit, and Saber can carry up to 16 of them. She also has a sight that can provide some semblance of a (finicky) ccip. Two decent-ish sized bombs can be carried, and saber even has an auto bomb release mode, though I wouldn't say it's good enough for a small point target like a tank. Guns themselves won't do anything against a proper tank, even an older one. But against lighter armor and soft targets, Saber's guns are excellent for strafing.

 

MiG on the other had, can only carry two tiny bombs, 100 kg at most, and you drop them using the force! Not impressive in the least there, but the guns, especially the 37mm is very potent, especially against lighter targets. Probably it's more reliable than even rockets against those.

 

Finally, F-86 can carry a copule of old sidewinders FWIW (not much if you ask me).

 

Normally I tend to be a MiG person, but between these two I must I say enjoy the Saber more. However, MiG is lovely too.

Modules:

MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II, MiG-19, I-16, JF-17, F-14, F/A-18C, Fw-190A8, AV-8B/NA, Spitifre IX

 

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A-4E, MB-339, Edge 540

 

Utility modules:

Combined Arms, NS 430 GPS

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  • 4 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Both of these planes, f86 and mig15 are just a work of art. So much grit and spirit and a joy to dogfight, at least against ai where you can make them rookies if you want. In VR they are my favorite planes but I dont have the f14 yet. I do love the older jets. I would recomend strongly to head over to lockonfiles.com and download "diveplanes" soundmods for f86 and mig15. Makes a big difference in my ears. Goes from rather dull external sounds to awsome.


Edited by Bob1
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The 50 cals on the F86 is not very powerful and you need many hits to bring down the Mig-15. You usually need only one or two hits with the Mig to take down the Sabre, one with the 37mm.

 

Yeah, but in a turn fight Sabre has an advantage because it's .50 machine guns have higher muzzle velocity what means it's need less G to pull in the turn to hit the target!

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In the MIG 15 Whenever i don't have the advantage i point the nose straight up and climb like a bat out of hell.The Sabre's simply can't keep up.Use the vertical.:pilotfly:

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In the MIG 15 Whenever i don't have the advantage i point the nose straight up and climb like a bat out of hell.The Sabre's simply can't keep up.Use the vertical.:pilotfly:

 

That's exactly it! The Sabre (at least the current DCS version) cannot match the Mig-15 in the vertical. Given its low roll rate, this makes the Mig somewhat of a one-trick-pony, but it sure works. If you have a Sabre on your six, start doing loops. Two or at most three circles later, you will have a guns solution on the Sabre (if he is foolish enough to follow you into the vertical - and the AI always does).

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I am (and my wingman) flying exclusively on MiG 15. If you want a comparison:
-MiG 15 has a lot better engine. It climbs and accelerates way better than F86. Climbing in spiral is better on MiG under every climb speed and angle.
-MiG 15 has lot more problems while being in dive. Aeroelastic behavior starts quite early and doesn't allow to pull hard, by Ma 0,91-0,92 it's just straight fight possible. And it's not easy
-F86 seems to have ability to turn tighter, while loosing a lot of speed in turn. Mostly It stays inside turn radius of MiG 15, but the longer you stays in turn the worse for F86, since MiG can archive better constant TRT as F86 do, but it's also difficult to master it.

-MiG 15 is a lot better on high altitude. Is fast in straight flight, climbs better.
-Looping: F86 stays inside a MiG loop and can stay there with similar TRT, nether side can have advantage. P86 looses however a lot faster speed in loop. It's not a big problem, since he can continue loop by quite wide speed range. The problem starts when MiG 15 pilot after first loop , at the top of the second loop reverts to immelman. (yes MiG 15 makes double immelman and he can do it even on very high altitude - i keep as a secret how high, but i won quite a number of duels these way).

 

One one one MiG15 against F86:

- with both pilots inexperienced - F86 wins easily
- with both pilots experienced turn-fighting modern style - MiG shall prefer nose to tail

- with MiG pilot flying energetic style - MiG wins, or disengages freely in over 90% cases

 

Two vs Two

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Edited by 303_Kermit
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  • 2 months later...
On 10/22/2020 at 9:04 AM, Bob1 said:

Both of these planes, f86 and mig15 are just a work of art. So much grit and spirit and a joy to dogfight, at least against ai where you can make them rookies if you want. In VR they are my favorite planes but I dont have the f14 yet. I do love the older jets. I would recomend strongly to head over to lockonfiles.com and download "diveplanes" soundmods for f86 and mig15. Makes a big difference in my ears. Goes from rather dull external sounds to awsome.

 

Hello Bob1!

 

I also love MiG-15, and i am very interested by the diveplanes soundmod. However, the author of the mod says that this doesn't work anymore with DCS 2.0 and above. Or maybe i didnt find the correct soundmod? Can you tell me? Thanks in advance!

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