Thrustmaster Warthog Joystick now and lVirpil CM2 Base later. Good idea?

[tangofan]

Hi all,

 

After a few weeks in DCS my old CH Fighterstick USB is slowly giving up, the first button stopped working yesterday. So I am looking for a new joystick. Since I have a Virpil CM2 Throttle on order, I would have likeed to get their CM2 base with a matching grip, e.g. the MongoosT50-CM2 grip, but it seems that - when restocking - they have either the base OR the grip in stock and I would need both (and don't want to order them separately). Also at the moment I only have a desk setup, so the Mongoos grip is probably not the right one (since they say that it's not suitable for desk use).

 

So I was thinking of getting the Thrustmaster Warthog joystick for now and then sometime down the road (say a year or two) get a Virpil Base (and perhaps a grip as well).

 

I understand that the Warthog joystick has some construction "issues", but I'm wondering, if it will serve me well enough for a year or two. FWIW I'm right now mainly "flying" (read: mostly crashing) the F5-E and the F/A-18. I also thought of ordering a Virpil CM2 Base right now and ordering Thrustmaster's F18 grip for it, but then I'd still need a mounting solution for the base.

 

I'd appreciate any insights and advice on how to approach this:

• Buy the Warthog Joystick now and worry about getting a different base down the road
   
  
• Buy a CM2 base when possible and buy a Thrustmaster F18 grip
   
  
• Buy a CM2 base when possible and then a CM2 grip ASAP after that
   
  
• Something different altogether???
  

[SVgamer72]

I used a WH for years, got the T-50 when it came out, and recently picked up a WarBRD to see if I liked it better...

 

There is nothing wrong with the WH stick. Until Virpil and VKB came along it was ranked the best available. - The plastic ball gimbal will collect dust and wear over time. If you are hard on it (apply too much Z-axis twist, slam it around ham fisted, or use an extension that increases the forces you apply), you can accelerate the wear and tear or even break it. The vast majority of users have no issues for years. A basic design flaw is the spring forces apply unevenly, but again until other options hit the market, it wasn't a problem big enough to dethrone it.

 

FYI, the TM F-16 grip (no different than the A-10C grip that has been sold for years) is @$50 less than a complete stick/base on Amazon right now.

 

If you are a desktop user (stick on desk and not on a dedicated mount), then you should be looking at the WarBRD from Virpil as it is designed for this use case and is shorter. the CM2 grip is amazing if you are not dead set on a western A-10C/F-16 style. It is tall by comparison to the TM, but it can still work on the desktop, and with a WarBRD base the height will be less of an issue.

 

The CM2 base is designed to be used with a dedicated mount and if desired an extension. It doesn't come with a base plate for desktop use. If your ultimate goal is to mount the stick with/without an extension, then you will want the CM2, but plan for how you will mount it for use on a desktop (you will need a base plate) if you are not going to mount it immediately.

 

FYI, rumor on the HOTAS discord is that Virpil will restock tomorrow, and things go quick...

 

Date: 16.05.2020

Time: 6pm GMT

Restocked Items:

 

VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base

VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Throttle

VPC WarBRD Base

[tangofan]

I used a WH for years, got the T-50 when it came out, and recently picked up a WarBRD to see if I liked it better...

 

Thanks so much for your detailed reply. I hope you don't mind a few followup questions. :)

 

There is nothing wrong with the WH stick. Until Virpil and VKB came along it was ranked the best available. - The plastic ball gimbal will collect dust and wear over time. If you are hard on it (apply too much Z-axis twist, slam it around ham fisted, or use an extension that increases the forces you apply), you can accelerate the wear and tear or even break it. The vast majority of users have no issues for years. A basic design flaw is the spring forces apply unevenly, but again until other options hit the market, it wasn't a problem big enough to dethrone it.

 

Ok, good to know that it'll work. And it sounds like I always could get an extension (e.g. from Virpil or elsewhere), once I have a mounting solution.

 

FYI, the TM F-16 grip (no different than the A-10C grip that has been sold for years) is @$50 less than a complete stick/base on Amazon right now.

 

Cool, I didn't realize that. Then that would save me some money, if I order a Virpil base right away.

 

If you are a desktop user (stick on desk and not on a dedicated mount), then you should be looking at the WarBRD from Virpil as it is designed for this use case and is shorter. the CM2 grip is amazing if you are not dead set on a western A-10C/F-16 style. It is tall by comparison to the TM, but it can still work on the desktop, and with a WarBRD base the height will be less of an issue.

 

Well, I'd be a desktop user for at least a little while (while I settle on a mounting solution), but I'd like to go to such a mounting solution sooner rather than later (say within the next 2-3 months). Do you recommend the WarBRD base over the CM2 base just because it's more suitable for desktop use or does it have other advantages.

 

The CM2 base is designed to be used with a dedicated mount and if desired an extension. It doesn't come with a base plate for desktop use. If your ultimate goal is to mount the stick with/without an extension, then you will want the CM2, but plan for how you will mount it for use on a desktop (you will need a base plate) if you are not going to mount it immediately.

 

Yes, that's the problem with the CM2 base, that I'd either have to rush to get a mounting solution or find a suitable base plate. Not sure, where to get such a base plate...

 

FYI, rumor on the HOTAS discord is that Virpil will restock tomorrow, and things go quick...

 

Date: 16.05.2020

Time: 6pm GMT

Restocked Items:

 

VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base

VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Throttle

VPC WarBRD Base

 

Not exactly a rumor that's official. I did order a CM2 Throttle last week and had to go through the process twice, before my order actually went through. Pretty painful... But the main problem is that they had grips last week and bases this week, so unfortunately it'll be two orders and no combo discount. :cry:

[98abaile]

Hi all,

 

After a few weeks in DCS my old CH Fighterstick USB is slowly giving up, the first button stopped working yesterday. So I am looking for a new joystick. Since I have a Virpil CM2 Throttle on order, I would have likeed to get their CM2 base with a matching grip, e.g. the MongoosT50-CM2 grip, but it seems that - when restocking - they have either the base OR the grip in stock and I would need both (and don't want to order them separately). Also at the moment I only have a desk setup, so the Mongoos grip is probably not the right one (since they say that it's not suitable for desk use).

 

So I was thinking of getting the Thrustmaster Warthog joystick for now and then sometime down the road (say a year or two) get a Virpil Base (and perhaps a grip as well).

 

I understand that the Warthog joystick has some construction "issues", but I'm wondering, if it will serve me well enough for a year or two. FWIW I'm right now mainly "flying" (read: mostly crashing) the F5-E and the F/A-18. I also thought of ordering a Virpil CM2 Base right now and ordering Thrustmaster's F18 grip for it, but then I'd still need a mounting solution for the base.

 

I'd appreciate any insights and advice on how to approach this:

• Buy the Warthog Joystick now and worry about getting a different base down the road
   
  
• Buy a CM2 base when possible and buy a Thrustmaster F18 grip
   
  
• Buy a CM2 base when possible and then a CM2 grip ASAP after that
   
  
• Something different altogether???
  

 

Firstly, ordering the the grip and base separately is normal with virpil. Rather have to create bundles for every possible combination, you just order the base and stick you want and they apply a 10% discount at checkout.

 

As for your question, it really comes down to how you want to fly (if you were think about buying a warthog and THEN upgrading, I can only assume money isn't an issue here).

The CM2 base is not suitable for on top of the desk use, but their warBRD base is. The flip side is that the warBRD base is not suitable for long stick extensions.

You could get a warBRD base and a CM2 grip, but be warned it will still stand very tall on the desk (but to be fair the warthog is kinda tall as well). The alternative is to use their desk edge mounts (which are excellent by the way; I have 6), but you will need a second one (and mounting arm) for the throttle.

 

Regarding the bases, the warthog was good for it's time but the design decisions that went into it really don't hold up nowadays (the certainly don't justify the price IMO). The main problems are the plastic cup and ball articulation which is prone to sticktion and has been known to break with extensive use), and also the single spring design which doesn't delineate the axis and requires more force to maintain one axis when the other is also used. It also have a VERY clunky centre.

The virpil bases are (now) generally very good and are adjustable with replaceable cam profiles and springs. They're made of machined aluminium and have proper bearings. The other advantage of the virpil bases are that they are capable of a lot more inputs and axis. A warthog stick on a CM2 base is fully functional, but a CM2 stick on a warthog base is limited.

 

This brings me onto the next topic, the sticks.

The warthog sticks are good but not without their flaws. Being made of metal they're quite heavy, which means they don't balance very well on stick extensions. It also means that if you drop it you are likely to break the pot metal stem (I've had to replace mine with a 3d printed one from shapeways since the spare part is not available). As mentioned they're also limited to the number of buttons they have and have no extra axis. The F18 grips is not worth the price they're asking for it. Avoid.

The CM2 stick is good. It's light, comfortable and has many many buttons. It has a dual stage trigger, a flip down trigger (where the flipped up position is actually bindable), 4 4-way and push hats, a 2-way and push hat, 4 buttons and a lever axis that also has a simulated button at the end of its travel. The best part about it however is that is has enough buttons and hats in just the right places that you can map every button on the warthog stick in their actual locations, meaning you'd never actually need to mount the warthog since every button is covered. If it weren't for the throttle, I'd have sold my warthog by now. The only downside to the CM2 stick is probably the height if you are a desktop user.

 

Personally I think you;d be throwing your money away if you bought the warthog. It's only real value as I see it now is as a complete set for someone starting out and most of that value is in the throttle you don't need.

 

The final option is you fix your CH stick. If it's just the button gone, you might just have a loose connection. If it is the button, they can be easily replaced.

[tangofan]

My first choice for you would be option #4; consider something different altogether.

 

Thanks so much for your in-depth replay. I hope you don't mind a few followup questions.

 

The finest joystick made is basically a tie between the VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro with Mark III base or the VKB Kosmosima Premium with Mark III base. The gimbal, base, electronics are overall (by a small margin) better than any of the Virpil grips (I have not tested the latest Virpil Alpha grips, so cannot comment there) or bases. The GF MCG Pro or Kosmo can be used on the desktop or in a mounted position with extensions.

 

It seems that they have the Gunfighter MCG Pro in stock, but not the Kosmosima Premium. That probably makes the choice easy, but if you happen to know both, what are the reasons (other than availability) to pick one over the other?

 

Also I see that the Gunfighter comes in three different lengths. Am I correct in assuming that the longer ones just omit the base plate and add an extension? I see that 100mm and 200mm extensions can be purchased separately.

 

 

Option #2, buy a Warthog stick now and mount it to a Virpil WarBRD base later.

 

Any reason why you recommend the WarBRD base over the CM2 base, other than that it's suitable for desktop use? If it wasn't for that, which of the two Virpil bases would you recommend?

 

As you note, the Warthog has issues. You will likely need to lube it occasionally and you may want a custom spring. Many Americans and others from around the world who enjoy flying American aircraft like the Thrustmaster Warthog grip bc it is ergonomic and metal, but the plastic Warthog stick gimbal design sucks.

 

One thing I like about Virpil (and Thrustmaster) that you can mount different grips on different bases. I'm likely not going to rush out to get many different grips, but it is nice to have the option.

[SVgamer72]

Well, I'd be a desktop user for at least a little while (while I settle on a mounting solution), but I'd like to go to such a mounting solution sooner rather than later (say within the next 2-3 months). Do you recommend the WarBRD base over the CM2 base just because it's more suitable for desktop use or does it have other advantages.

 

You should search for video comparisons/reviews online to see the differences. It is really up to you as they are more alike than different.

 

The CM2 base has been criticized by some for asymmetrical cams. I don't have personal experience with this. It is much easier to tune a CM2 to fit you (you can adjust spring tension without having to take it apart). The CM2 also comes with additional spring and cam sets.

 

The WarBRD has the option to change springs, but you can't adjust or fine tune them. You also have to buy additional springs/cams separately.

 

I have the 3 straight Virpil extensions and the newer S-curve. All work perfectly on either base and even a TM base. Neither the WarBRD or TM are intended for use with an extension, but you can still do it if you want to. I have my WarBRD side mounted in an Obutto simpit with a 50mm extension (about the same overall height with a WH grip as a CM2 grip with no extension), and my T-50 center mounted with the S-curve. I swap back and forth, and when I figure out which I like best, I will eventually sell the other.

 

For mounting options, both can be used with Virpil Desk Mounts, Monstertech, Foxx Mounts, or DIY (you can pick up wood/metal at a local HW store and fabricate a mount or base plate for either and if you have access to a 3D printer you can download plans people have already created for various mounting options or order something from a 3D shop online).

[98abaile]

tangofan, if you're in the US, this guy is selling a warBRD and CM2.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=273205

[tangofan]

Firstly, ordering the the grip and base separately is normal with virpil. Rather have to create bundles for every possible combination, you just order the base and stick you want and they apply a 10% discount at checkout.

 

Thanks so much for your detailed reply. I wouldn't have any problems with putting two items in my shopping cart and ordering them together, but right now the base and the grip are only available at different times. So it would be two separate orders, two times shipping cost and no combo discount. :cry:

 

As for your question, it really comes down to how you want to fly (if you were think about buying a warthog and THEN upgrading, I can only assume money isn't an issue here).

The CM2 base is not suitable for on top of the desk use, but their warBRD base is. The flip side is that the warBRD base is not suitable for long stick extensions.

 

Yes, I want to go with a mount in the near future. I would order Virpil's mount right away, if only it were available.

 

I could get a CM2 base and put it on a lower stool, while contemplating what mounting solution to get. But then I guess I'd still need some base plate to mount the CM2 base to and it doesn't seem like Virpil has a base plate for that.

 

 

Personally I think you;d be throwing your money away if you bought the warthog. It's only real value as I see it now is as a complete set for someone starting out and most of that value is in the throttle you don't need.

 

The final option is you fix your CH stick. If it's just the button gone, you might just have a loose connection. If it is the button, they can be easily replaced.

 

Thanks, that does indeed sound like Thrustmaster is not the way to go.

 

It sounds like - if I go with Virpil - I'd have to focus on a mounting solution first, then get the base and the grip (even if it requires two separate orders in separate weeks). Or - as another poster suggested - look at VKB instead.

[VirusAM]

Hi all,

 

 

 

After a few weeks in DCS my old CH Fighterstick USB is slowly giving up, the first button stopped working yesterday. So I am looking for a new joystick. Since I have a Virpil CM2 Throttle on order, I would have likeed to get their CM2 base with a matching grip, e.g. the MongoosT50-CM2 grip, but it seems that - when restocking - they have either the base OR the grip in stock and I would need both (and don't want to order them separately). Also at the moment I only have a desk setup, so the Mongoos grip is probably not the right one (since they say that it's not suitable for desk use).

 

 

 

So I was thinking of getting the Thrustmaster Warthog joystick for now and then sometime down the road (say a year or two) get a Virpil Base (and perhaps a grip as well).

 

 

 

I understand that the Warthog joystick has some construction "issues", but I'm wondering, if it will serve me well enough for a year or two. FWIW I'm right now mainly "flying" (read: mostly crashing) the F5-E and the F/A-18. I also thought of ordering a Virpil CM2 Base right now and ordering Thrustmaster's F18 grip for it, but then I'd still need a mounting solution for the base.

 

 

 

I'd appreciate any insights and advice on how to approach this:

 

• 
   
  
• Buy the Warthog Joystick now and worry about getting a different base down the road
   
   
   
  
• Buy a CM2 base when possible and buy a Thrustmaster F18 grip
   
   
   
  
• Buy a CM2 base when possible and then a CM2 grip ASAP after that
   
   
   
  
• Something different altogether???
   
  

 

 

 

If you want i am about to sell a warbrd base.

I got a VKB set so I won’t use it.

[tangofan]

If you want i am about to sell a warbrd base.

I got a VKB set so I won’t use it.

 

May I ask what VKB set you have and how it compares to the warbrd (and whatever grip you have been using with it)?

[tangofan]

My first choice for you would be option #4; consider something different altogether. The finest joystick made is basically a tie between the VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro with Mark III base or the VKB Kosmosima Premium with Mark III base.

 

I was all set to go with the VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro, but then I cam up this review (apparently by you, Aurelius): http://jaytheskepticalengineer.com/fathering-and-hobbies/flight-simming/flight-sim-gear-reviews/vkb-gunfighter-mcg-pro-mk-ii/

 

Your review mentions that the grip is too large, even for your larger-than-average hands. My hand length (middle finger tip to first crease at wrist) iis 19.7 cm, which is 1.4 cm shorter than yours. Does that mean that I should avoid this grip? If so, would VKB have another better fitting grip that it still okay with its features? Or should I forget about VKB at this point?

[mungo13]

I was all set to go with the VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro, but then I cam up this review (apparently by you, Aurelius): http://jaytheskepticalengineer.com/fathering-and-hobbies/flight-simming/flight-sim-gear-reviews/vkb-gunfighter-mcg-pro-mk-ii/

 

Your review mentions that the grip is too large, even for your larger-than-average hands. My hand length (middle finger tip to first crease at wrist) iis 19.7 cm, which is 1.4 cm shorter than yours. Does that mean that I should avoid this grip? If so, would VKB have another better fitting grip that it still okay with its features? Or should I forget about VKB at this point?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA1B1sIvyGpeoJAcrUd99jQ

https://www.youtube.com/user/BrianMP5T

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvXXUrGCF3wV3bbZ6pFQ00g

https://www.youtube.com/user/ralfidude

 

Hope this works - up are several channels where are many reviews of the VKB, VIRPIL and some Warthog stuff. They comment on sizes, buttons, quality, properties of the bases etc. Many good videos.

So far I know only about Kosmosima (SCG) serie of grips as alternative in VKB list. F-14 one is very specific. Kosmosima should be smaller.

You can find review at least in Snake Eater Company videos - fairly detailed one as I remember. And as he made also review of the VKB MCG - you can have direct comparison by 1 person

[Sokol1_br]

BTW - https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=273451