reported AN/APG-63 range is under-represented

[GGTharos]

It isn't a bug.  Bugs are software operating in a manner that is not intended.  A piece of incorrect data is not a bug, it is incorrect data.

[TaxDollarsAtWork]

The software not behaving as it should is a bug

As such it must be addressed since the product is still being supported

Edited April 9, 2021 by TaxDollarsAtWork

[GGTharos]

It's behaving exactly as the developer intended, thus not a bug.  We're asking for a data correction, not a change of code.

[=4c=Nikola]

I don't see what's the big deal. F-15 radar works just fine. 

[dundun92]

39 minutes ago, =4c=Nikola said:

I don't see what's the big deal. F-15 radar works just fine. 

depends on your definition of "fine". If fine = useable sure its fine. But by that logic the AMRAAMs lacking INS is "fine" because its useable. Or the broken F-18 TWS AUTO is "fine" because TWS MAN is still useable. Or the F-16 underperforming in BFM is "fine" because its still useable. The list goes on. The point is, the fact that is "works fine" doesnt really matter. If its underperforming 30+% in detection range, it absolutely should be fixed. And its not an insignificant difference either.

[=4c=Nikola]

9 hours ago, dundun92 said:

depends on your definition of "fine". If fine = useable sure its fine. But by that logic the AMRAAMs lacking INS is "fine" because its useable. Or the broken F-18 TWS AUTO is "fine" because TWS MAN is still useable. Or the F-16 underperforming in BFM is "fine" because its still useable. The list goes on. The point is, the fact that is "works fine" doesnt really matter. If its underperforming 30+% in detection range, it absolutely should be fixed. And its not an insignificant difference either.

 

Not just usable, FC3 F-15C as a package is among most powerful aircraft in the game.  

 

As someone said above, it is not a bug. Whole radar is simplified. Modes and functions are missing. It is what it is for 15USD.

 

 

[GGTharos]

Yep, it's not a bug but it is wrong, the detection ranges are shorter than they ought to be by a very significant margin.

[=4c=Nikola]

20 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

Yep, it's not a bug but it is wrong, the detection ranges are shorter than they ought to be by a very significant margin.

 

Well, RWR is all wrong, radar modes are wrong, ECM is wrong, startup is wrong... where to stop?

 

There are issues with F-15 like losing navigation after selecting a flight without switching to spectators first. Radar is just fine. I fly F-15C since first lock on - the radar is not a limiting factor for successful engagement.

 

 

[GGTharos]

I don't know what and why you're trying to argue.  This is a matter of literally changing a single number in one LUA file.

[Exorcet]

1 hour ago, =4c=Nikola said:

 

Not just usable, FC3 F-15C as a package is among most powerful aircraft in the game.  

 

As someone said above, it is not a bug. Whole radar is simplified. Modes and functions are missing. It is what it is for 15USD.

 

 

The F-15 isn't particularly strong. The only advantage it really has is above average number of AMRAAM carried. Its weak radar is compounded by a lack of datalink, and personally I find it less fun to have a radar that barely sees beyond missile range. It doesn't feel like a BVR fighter, right now the F-16 feels like a better representation of the F-15.

[=4c=Nikola]

25 minutes ago, GGTharos said:

I don't know what and why you're trying to argue.  This is a matter of literally changing a single number in one LUA file.

 

Don't get me wrong, I fly F-15C almost exclusively in DCS, and I would like to fly full DCS F-15C more than anything they have in production right now.

 

That being said, I understand they do not want to invest time and money to fine tune FC3 modules. They do not even want to invest time and money to fix real bugs in FC3.

 

It's probably one line in some lua file to disable ecm warm-up time, yet they will not do it.

20 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

The F-15 isn't particularly strong. The only advantage it really has is above average number of AMRAAM carried. Its weak radar is compounded by a lack of datalink, and personally I find it less fun to have a radar that barely sees beyond missile range. It doesn't feel like a BVR fighter, right now the F-16 feels like a better representation of the F-15.

 

It has performance advantage, it has missiles advantage, it has RWR datalink, it has like million CMs, it has fuel to the moon and back... It's easily the most capable A2A platform in the game together with Su-27 family.

Edited April 10, 2021 by =4c=Nikola

[henshao]

7 minutes ago, =4c=Nikola said:

 

It has performance advantage, it has missiles advantage, it has RWR datalink, it has like million CMs, it has fuel to the moon and back... It's easily the most capable A2A platform in the game together with Su-27 family.

 

 

yeah I mean who needs situational awareness? other than the horsepower advantage everything you just said was inaccurate

 

I've seen or heard so many pilots of other platforms IRL mention that they're "glad it's on our side" with regard to the F-15 due in no small part to the fact that it can be mach 2 at 45000 feet casting down long-range thunderbolts like zeus on mount olympus...  in game the eagle's limited onboard radar and lack of a datalink (any kind) means you can be mach 2 at 45k feet if you want but zeus may as well be blindfolded

[=4c=Nikola]

Just now, henshao said:

...who needs situational awareness?...

 

Just build one in your head. It's not that hard and it's great brain excercise.

[draconus]

34 minutes ago, =4c=Nikola said:

Just build one in your head. It's not that hard and it's great brain excercise.

I've got enough of exercise trying to comprehend what are you trying to accomplish here. Are you simply against these radar performance corrections?

[Exorcet]

56 minutes ago, =4c=Nikola said:

 

It has performance advantage, it has missiles advantage, it has RWR datalink, it has like million CMs, it has fuel to the moon and back... It's easily the most capable A2A platform in the game together with Su-27 family.

 

 

I don't have turn rates, but looking at other data, it's not really ahead of the rest of the teen series:

 

The F-14B and F-16 tend to perform better or at worst on par, and F-16 even outranges the F-15 unless you load up 3 tanks. The Eagle beats out the Hornet speed wise, but that's more because the Hornet is slow. Detectability isn't too bad, but it's not great either.

 

29 minutes ago, =4c=Nikola said:

 

Just build one in your head. It's not that hard and it's great brain excercise.

In a sim you shouldn't have to if the plane can do it for you though.

[GGTharos]

All pilots build SA in their head, the datalink makes it a lot easier and gives timely updated compared to other methods.  So it isn't about the 'sim doing it for you' but about correctly simulating the capabilities.

 

In DCS the AWACS for example is not really good at providing SA, which while not a real replacement for a datalink would add a lot of SA if done right.

[=4c=Nikola]

2 hours ago, Exorcet said:

I don't have turn rates, but looking at other data, it's not really ahead of the rest of the teen series:

We can disagree, but I would always take F-15's 6 minutes more and 5k ft more at 350kts over F-16. I would always take F-15's M2.1+ at 40k ft over F-16's M1.6-1.7. All of that with more CMs and two more missiles.

2 hours ago, GGTharos said:

All pilots build SA in their head, the datalink makes it a lot easier and gives timely updated compared to other methods.  So it isn't about the 'sim doing it for you' but about correctly simulating the capabilities.

 

In DCS the AWACS for example is not really good at providing SA, which while not a real replacement for a datalink would add a lot of SA if done right.

All RL pilots build SA in their head, but in DCS as soon as data-link is not available, most people are lost in space and time.

 

And as I've already said, FC3 F-15 RWR kind of serves like primitive datalink.

Edited April 10, 2021 by =4c=Nikola

[nighthawk2174]

3 hours ago, Exorcet said:

 

I don't have turn rates, but looking at other data, it's not really ahead of the rest of the teen series:

 

The F-14B and F-16 tend to perform better or at worst on par, and F-16 even outranges the F-15 unless you load up 3 tanks. The Eagle beats out the Hornet speed wise, but that's more because the Hornet is slow. Detectability isn't too bad, but it's not great either.

 

In a sim you shouldn't have to if the plane can do it for you though.

Thanks for linking this chart I was already really dubious about RCS values in DCS as being not accurate i've been debating making a post on it:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

[henshao]

certainly, the unrealistically low RCS figures of the various aircraft above aren't helping matters

[SgtPappy]

On 4/10/2021 at 4:48 PM, henshao said:

certainly, the unrealistically low RCS figures of the various aircraft above aren't helping matters

Can anyone confirm that these RCS figures are taken into account for FC3 aircraft?

 

I have been told that fighters/helos are basically all the same to the FC3 radars and large aircraft are another - i.e. it's binary. But that's only a rumour I heard so I don't know for sure.

[nighthawk2174]

I've heard that as well but we'd need to ask @Chizh if that's the case or not.

[dundun92]

2 hours ago, SgtPappy said:

Can anyone confirm that these RCS figures are taken into account for FC3 aircraft?

There is a difference between different RCSs in DCS FC3, ive tested this, and its been tested by others

[TotenDead]

So, it's been almost a year since the "data" was sent to Chizh. Was it counted as unreliable? Because MiG-29s radar will be fixed and F-15s seems to be left as it is

[dundun92]

8 hours ago, TotenDead said:

So, it's been almost a year since the "data" was sent to Chizh. Was it counted as unreliable? Because MiG-29s radar will be fixed and F-15s seems to be left as it is

Exactly how long has it taken for ED to do a CFD for the R-27ER? Yea, I think you very well know that this is simply how ED operates; the MiG-29 radar bug was reported for just at long and it still hasnt been fixed. So yea, no, just stop trolling honestly.

 

[=4c=Nikola]

So, nothing in changelog about this?