Tips for Dog Fighting

[testudine2002]

Hello,

 

I'm a terrible fighter pilot. I was also bad at IL-2. When I dogfight 1v1, it seems like a matter of luck that I can get behind someone and get the splash. I don't really understand any tactics yet.

 

I've tried a lot of youtube videos in BFM. I learned some interesting things like barrel rolls and s turns. I even watched a 40 minute video with a pilot in a jumpsuit and an 80's porn mustache. I understood what he was saying but I still can't really apply it. I would like to understand the tactics / strategy better.

 

Any tips or suggested reading / watching for BFM / Dogfighting? Thanks!

[oldcrusty]

...I even watched a 40 minute video with a pilot in a jumpsuit and an 80's porn mustache...

 

Any tips or suggested reading / watching for BFM / Dogfighting? Thanks!

 

:lol: In our gamer/simmer dogfighting arena that vid has pretty much all you need... for jets.

You probably know or already have the view tracking devices like TrackIR or VR and realize that without any of those winning a fight is basically impossible. If the jet you fly has HMD, use it. You can keep track of your airspeed a lot easier and go easy with the stick when the airspeed plummets... that's a basic advice for a newbie. If you're currently flying out of Fallon and just playing around... you can give me some advice:D

[Exorcet]

Are you practicing vs the AI or players? Know that the AI has some issues that will be fixed in the long term. The issues basically make them a bit unrealistic when it comes to dogfighting, but there are tricks you can use to tweak their performance.

 

 

In really basic terms, dogfighting is about energy management. Energy is a combination of speed + altitude. You always want to have some energy to spend for an emergency (evasive turn or an aggressive maneuver to kill an enemy). If you can keep the enemy off your tail while managing your aircraft's energy state, you're doing something right. Practice this first.

[Harlikwin]

There are ton of videos and tutorials on youtube.

[ouseler]

I am not an ace by any means, but Exorcet is right. You must manage your energy state in addition to also developing SA.

1. Cornering Speed - Find out what the cornering speed of your aircraft is. This is the speed at which you can achieve the tightest turn without bleeding airspeed (energy). For the Hornet, it is around 270 or 280 Knots and the Viper its around 430 knots (correct me if I'm wrong anybody). This is not easy and takes a lot of practice to stay in pocket.

2. See your enemy - If you cannot see your adversary, you can't kill him. I have TrackIR, and though it has its issues, when properly set up (this is a whole other subject), it can allow you to see a massive chunk of the sky.

a. Once you get comfortable with TrackIR, or whatever you use, then you must begin to develop a Situational Awareness (SA). This is what I have the most problem with. SA is a mental 3D picture that you create to help you understand the battlespace. Dogfighting is a dynamic and very fluid environment so the duration that one's SA can be relied on is short-lived. You can be the best dogfighter in the world, but you will NOT be able to keep your eyes on the prize 100% of the time. So when happens, SA will help you to predict or anticipate what your opponent will do and what part of the sky he will be in. This will simply take experience. Unfortunately, this cannot be taught.

3. Know your enemy - It is important that you know what your opponent is capable of. What are his strengths and what are his weaknesses. Each plane has its own performance footprint. For example:

a. Don't get in a rate fight (turning fighting) with a Viper. YOU WILL LOSE.

b. The ET missile that some Russian fighters use is particularly dangerous. You must adapt to tactics to counter that threat.

c. The Hornet likes a one circle fight and is good at slower and high AoA fights.

 

The best source I have found to start learning these intricacies is Growling Sidewinder's Channel on YouTube. He is excellent at breaking down air-to-air engagements and explaining the do's and don'ts of energy management, BVR fighting, BFM. He uses Tacview after the fight and goes into great detail on what worked and what did not work for him. He also invites good stick-and-rudder guys to fight against like Feisty and Hellreign. Check him out.

[testudine2002]

Are you practicing vs the AI or players? Know that the AI has some issues that will be fixed in the long term. The issues basically make them a bit unrealistic when it comes to dogfighting, but there are tricks you can use to tweak their performance.

 

 

In really basic terms, dogfighting is about energy management. Energy is a combination of speed + altitude. You always want to have some energy to spend for an emergency (evasive turn or an aggressive maneuver to kill an enemy). If you can keep the enemy off your tail while managing your aircraft's energy state, you're doing something right. Practice this first.

 

I only fly with AI now.

 

Thanks for these tips.

[testudine2002]

I am not an ace by any means, but Exorcet is right. You must manage your energy state in addition to also developing SA.

1. Cornering Speed - Find out what the cornering speed of your aircraft is. This is the speed at which you can achieve the tightest turn without bleeding airspeed (energy). For the Hornet, it is around 270 or 280 Knots and the Viper its around 430 knots (correct me if I'm wrong anybody). This is not easy and takes a lot of practice to stay in pocket.

2. See your enemy - If you cannot see your adversary, you can't kill him. I have TrackIR, and though it has its issues, when properly set up (this is a whole other subject), it can allow you to see a massive chunk of the sky.

a. Once you get comfortable with TrackIR, or whatever you use, then you must begin to develop a Situational Awareness (SA). This is what I have the most problem with. SA is a mental 3D picture that you create to help you understand the battlespace. Dogfighting is a dynamic and very fluid environment so the duration that one's SA can be relied on is short-lived. You can be the best dogfighter in the world, but you will NOT be able to keep your eyes on the prize 100% of the time. So when happens, SA will help you to predict or anticipate what your opponent will do and what part of the sky he will be in. This will simply take experience. Unfortunately, this cannot be taught.

3. Know your enemy - It is important that you know what your opponent is capable of. What are his strengths and what are his weaknesses. Each plane has its own performance footprint. For example:

a. Don't get in a rate fight (turning fighting) with a Viper. YOU WILL LOSE.

b. The ET missile that some Russian fighters use is particularly dangerous. You must adapt to tactics to counter that threat.

c. The Hornet likes a one circle fight and is good at slower and high AoA fights.

 

The best source I have found to start learning these intricacies is Growling Sidewinder's Channel on YouTube. He is excellent at breaking down air-to-air engagements and explaining the do's and don'ts of energy management, BVR fighting, BFM. He uses Tacview after the fight and goes into great detail on what worked and what did not work for him. He also invites good stick-and-rudder guys to fight against like Feisty and Hellreign. Check him out.

 

I'll check out Growling Sidewinder's videos. Thanks for spelling this out for me a little.

[LuckyFromArma]

The most beneficial tip I can think of is Keep Digging.

[NoJoy]

Hello,

 

I even watched a 40 minute video with a pilot in a jumpsuit and an 80's porn mustache.

 

 

 

:megalol::megalol:

 

I watched it as well. I suck too in the merge. The most important thing in the merge IMO is to always keep your eyes on your oponent and always be aware where he's heading to.

What helped me a lot here is to zoom pretty far out so you have a huge field of view.

And keep in mind that the AI cheats by having the simple flightmodel

Edited May 12, 2020 by AnimalMother711

[Wavehopper]

The art of the kill for Falcon 4.0? Yup, that is a glorious mustache.

 

 

Try and take one element from what he is saying and apply it in DCS to understand it. Then do the same with the other elements he mentions.

 

 

It may take several viewings but it's worth it, especially when he says "fly to the elbow".

 

 

Also try and find an actual person to practice with if you can, it makes a hell of a difference.

[Bozon]

Watch the youtube vids they help, to a degree. However, at least in my case the problem was in my way of thinking. My experience is nearly 100% WWII era, and I don’t fly modern fighters, so take it for what it’s worth:

 

1. Don’t think too much about shooting the enemy - fight for advantageous position, THEN think about guns solution.

 

2. To gain a better position don’t fly to where the opponent is now - imagine where he is going to be and maneuver to get there.

 

3. Keep maneuvers simple - you don’t win by fancy moves, you win by executing the correct move at the right time.

 

4. Prepare to die. A lot. Then die some more. In the mean time ravel in the little victories like surviving a difficult situation (even if you die later), making the enemy disengage and run, etc.

[schurem]

A bit like in Jiu Jitsu: Position before submission. You need to be in control of the fight before you can actively think about employing weapons in a deliberate fashion. On the other hand, just like in Jitsu, there can be times where a snapshot opportunity presents (or is created by you!) and you should always be ready to take it.

 

People say the AI sucks so bad it will lead to negative training. I don't agree. It's just that it can only teach you so much. Once your gunnery is spot on and you can out-dance the bots regularly, you are done with them. Until that time, shooting bots is a fun and profitable exercise.

 

I fly the MiG-15 nevada dogfight instant action almost daily. It remains fun and a challenge to me.

[Timothy Wilson]

I am not an ace by any means, but Exorcet is right. You must manage your energy state in addition to also developing SA.

1. Cornering Speed - Find out what the cornering speed of your aircraft is. This is the speed at which you can achieve the tightest turn without bleeding airspeed (energy). For the Hornet, it is around 270 or 280 Knots and the Viper its around 430 knots (correct me if I'm wrong anybody). This is not easy and takes a lot of practice to stay in pocket.

2. See your enemy - If you cannot see your adversary, you can't kill him. I have TrackIR, and though it has its issues, when properly set up (this is a whole other subject), it can allow you to see a massive chunk of the sky.

a. Once you get comfortable with TrackIR, or whatever you use, then you must begin to develop a Situational Awareness (SA). This is what I have the most problem with. SA is a mental 3D picture that you create to help you understand the battlespace. Dogfighting is a dynamic and very fluid environment so the duration that one's SA can be relied on is short-lived. You can be the best dogfighter in the world, but you will NOT be able to keep your eyes on the prize 100% of the time. So when happens, SA will help you to predict or anticipate what your opponent will do and what part of the sky he will be in. This will simply take experience. Unfortunately, this cannot be taught.

3. Know your enemy - It is important that you know what your opponent is capable of. What are his strengths and what are his weaknesses. Each plane has its own performance footprint. For example:

a. Don't get in a rate fight (turning fighting) with a Viper. YOU WILL LOSE.

b. The ET missile that some Russian fighters use is particularly dangerous. You must adapt to tactics to counter that threat.

c. The Hornet likes a one circle fight and is good at slower and high AoA fights.

 

The best source I have found to start learning these intricacies is Growling Sidewinder's Channel on YouTube. He is excellent at breaking down air-to-air engagements and explaining the do's and don'ts of energy management, BVR fighting, BFM. He uses Tacview after the fight and goes into great detail on what worked and what did not work for him. He also invites good stick-and-rudder guys to fight against like Feisty and Hellreign. Check him out.

 

Thanks for placing your info.

I also agree this Growling Sidewinder's channel is great. Liked video Israeli F-16C Viper "Barak" Vs Chinese