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hello all. i am having a terrible time with refueling. i have tried everything to avoid the porpoising when i get within feet of the basket. very frustrating though i have refrained from shooting down the tanker. :D i started thinking that controller axis could be part of it. i am sure these questions have been answered somewhere but had a hard time with my searching. so... i have attached a screen grab on Joy and Throttle to this post. i understand for the most part like deadzone. but can someone give me some advice on these numbers i currently have configured. perhaps this is my issue?

 

TIA

 

JOY

F18-joy-2020-04-26_9-24-05.png

THROTTLE

F18-throttle-2020-04-26_9-26-28.png

AKA_SilverDevil AKA Forums My YouTube

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” — Mark Twain

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Your settings are very similar to mine, with just a deadzone of 4 to help avoid my clumsiness accidentally selecting pitch, when i want roll and vice versa. the curves on the joystick are exactly the same, at 15, and i have a TM Wartog HOTAS.

 

I've just been doing some AAR and it wasn't perfect, but i got it done with only a handful of disconnects. i hate to say it, but it doesn't look like it's your axes that are causing your issues. Practice, Practice, Practice might be the only solution. Perhaps concentrate on making only very minor adjustments to pitch and roll, as large adjustments will usually only have to be mainly reversed, probably causing the issues you are experiencing.

 

The curves are to accommodate the fact that the joystick in a real F18 is probably longer than your controller's joystick, so to get to full deflection it would need to be moved further from its central position. The shallower bit of the curve therefore serves to make your shorter joystick behave more like the real thing. It will still give the maximum reading when you get to the outer limits of the movement, but its movements closer to the centre position will not generate as high values as it would do with a linear "curve". It is easy to see, by moving your joystick whilst in the axis tune window for one of the pitch/roll axes.

 

If you have a WH HOTAS, the settings we almost share, must be pretty close, as i am sure that they are the ones that Wags suggested for that with the F18

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thanks for quick answer! i have T.16000M FCS FLIGHT PACK. this is indeed a short stick which means movement at the tip of the joystick is magnified. in my mind lessening the effect of the small movements but allow for faster inputs when in ACM would be what i want to achieve. should i lessen something in my config to compensate? money is not really important to me if i need to get warthog but i am also terrible with the rudder peddles. i use rudder a lot and think it is easier for me to have it on the sick. so i have avoided getting the new gear.

AKA_SilverDevil AKA Forums My YouTube

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” — Mark Twain

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Silverdevil,

 

Two years ago I tried learning to refuel in the F-15C, which is pretty hard considering that the aircraft (being simply a PFM) does not facilitate whatsoever in performing this task.

But I had a strong conviction it would be possible as long as I calibrated my hotas correctly.

 

 

My Hotas is the Thrustmaster T1600M (Stick + Throttle + Pedals).

The first 10 attempts were trial and error, always failing the task, always ending the maneuvers by crashing. So what I figured out was that I needed a second mode for the Stick.

My workaround was this, I had a "normal" curve in the axis tuned for flying in general, and a second pair of curves setup which would only activate after pressing a hotkey/button in the joystick.

 

A simple process to achieve this is:

1. Maintain your "regular sensitivity curves" in DCS World;

2. Install vJoy ( https://xedocproject.com/joystickcurves.html )create two modes: A) totally normal (i.e. no changes to sensitivity) and B) low sensitivity (I remember I created a straight transversal line with 50% of sensitivity - 50 of effect)

3. In vJoy you should assign a button of your joystick/hotas/keyboard to cycle between mode A and B

4. Fine-tune the low-sensitivity mode to your desire by creating a mission, in the editor, where you start close to a tanker and just pratice maintaining formation to see if you can keep perfectly positioned in relation to the tanker.

 

This is actually very simple and straightforward.

Since mode A in vJoy changes nothing at all in the curves, what will be active is simply the DCS axis tuning.

When you activate mode B you'll be adding the low sensitivity curve on top of your DCS axis tuning. Simple.

 

If you can re-fuel an F-15C then you'll find refuelling an F-16, F-18, or even an Su-33 being a piece of cake.

 

Remember, refueling is:

1. Approaching the tanker in the right manner - slowly, starting from a distance and working your way patiently - right now you should have the "low-sensitivity mode" active;

2. Since the low-sensitivity mode is active you can do a lot more movement with the stick, thus making it easier to accurately position your aircraft;

3. Also use or assign a zoom button or mode to your hotas so that you can see clearly the position marks of the tanker.

 

 

If I recall correctly I filled the F-15 tanks some 20 times.

 

Good luck!

 

p.s.: When I started flying in DCS I thought that having curves in the stick would make it easier to control the aircraft. Then, when I started practicing AAR and landing on the carrier + overbreak landings and such, things became complicated because the stick would not respond in a linear manner. I found that having a deadzone of around 2 and no curve makes the stick a lot more accurate in responsiveness. This should be the same for the pedals. It is much, much easier to have different sensitivty settings with straight lines than curves - modes A and B, or as many as you like. In the F-16 I actually increased sensitivity and now have a X saturation of 80. The aircraft became much more responsive and agile...


Edited by bdromeira

i5-9400F | GTX 1660Ti | 16gb RAM | 500gb SSD | TrackHat | TM 1600M Hotas + Pedals

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thanks for quick answer! i have T.16000M FCS FLIGHT PACK. this is indeed a short stick which means movement at the tip of the joystick is magnified. in my mind lessening the effect of the small movements but allow for faster inputs when in ACM would be what i want to achieve. should i lessen something in my config to compensate? money is not really important to me if i need to get warthog but i am also terrible with the rudder peddles. i use rudder a lot and think it is easier for me to have it on the sick. so i have avoided getting the new gear.

 

 

I have a TMW on a desk mount (no extension) what I use is 3 for dead zone and no curve, you want the aircraft to respond quickly to your controls this trains your hand eye coordination, The stick and throttle are always moving, there is no set and it forget it. IMHO trying to desensitize the stick will be counterproductive because you'll then have to work harder to get the aircraft to move the same amount, and you'll also notice a difference in control-ability at low and high stick deflections. Station keeping with the tanker or any aircraft is a matter of noticing trends and staying ahead of your own aircraft. It takes LOTS of practice to master.

 

 

 

I know lots of people use curves to help them out, and that's fine. This is just my opinion.

 

 

 

Also you shouldn't really need to touch the rudders during unreps, it introduces to much input and you'll start over controlling. Make sure the tanker is going fast enough, and do not cross control. Observe the tanker and correct one thing at a time.

DCS F/A-18C :sorcerer:

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@bdromeira - thanks for this too. interesting way to go about it. i used vJoy before on an older rig. i had gotten it to adjust for A10 when i first started DCS. i seemed to be all over the place when doing things like strafing. a little rudder would send the plane all over the place in the lateral axis. i did not use two profiles; did not even know there was a way to do this. i will give it a shot. would you be able to post a screen grab of your pitch settings for comparison / starting point. i like to start off with a known working condition. scientific method always prevails. thanks again

AKA_SilverDevil AKA Forums My YouTube

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” — Mark Twain

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Sure, see below:

 

vJoy mode A - no changes

 

Roll

attachment.php?attachmentid=233910&stc=1&d=1587912858

 

Pitch

attachment.php?attachmentid=233911&stc=1&d=1587912858

vJoy mode B - 50 % sensitivity

Pitch

attachment.php?attachmentid=233913&stc=1&d=1587912870

Roll

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=233912&stc=1&d=1587912858

 

 

 

Also, don't forget that whenever you have the vJoy app running you should set instead your normal curves in DCS under the new virtual joystick which should be called "vJoy". This is because all your stick inputs will now enter DCS through vJoy driver instead of through the T1600M stick driver.

 

Got it?

 

 

By the way, from now on you may as well configure your curves solely on vJoy, but this is absolutely under personal preference....

 

 

There's two things which the T1600M cannot emulate on its own and thats why this solution makes a lot of sense to me:

 

 

a) lots of movement - like a non-FBW stick behaves - youll find plenty of videos on Youtube showing a MiG in formation where the pilot cannot help it but to continuously move the stick by a lot;

 

b) input force - like a FBW stick on a F-16 with its 12 to 25 lbs of force applied.

 

 

Of course you may as well buy a Warthog stick with extension (case A) or a optical sensor base (case B).

whether you go for one or the other youll have to spend a few bucks....

1770283433_modeARoll.JPG.1fe577eec64fcba27e4e7f2ea476d1e7.JPG

949779691_modeAPitch.JPG.b36402c5ffd71f6b75c11642ec16ea1f.JPG

1561747653_modeBroll.JPG.547030a87a7869d2f700418a3f738ddd.JPG

18954817_modeBpitch.JPG.54a90e2c3a110bf770c8a5d2c8f408de.JPG


Edited by bdromeira

i5-9400F | GTX 1660Ti | 16gb RAM | 500gb SSD | TrackHat | TM 1600M Hotas + Pedals

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Also, don't forget that whenever you have the vJoy app running you should set instead your normal curves in DCS under the new virtual joystick which should be called "vJoy". This is because all your stick inputs will now enter DCS through vJoy driver instead of through the T1600M stick driver.

 

Got it?

 

this two! roger! :) thanks so much for your effort.

AKA_SilverDevil AKA Forums My YouTube

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” — Mark Twain

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@Christianof,

 

 

 

I am not a developer and I am not related to vJoy but I use it as an alternative to the DCS axis tuning for the purpose of having more than one mode of sensitivity for the same aircraft.

 

 

You may find more information here:

https://xedocproject.com/joystickcurves.html

 

 

It has roughly the same functions as DCS axis tunning so you simply define the curves in vJoy and these curves will become inputs in DCS.

 

Have a look at their site and forum.

Installation is very simple.

 

 

:thumbup:

i5-9400F | GTX 1660Ti | 16gb RAM | 500gb SSD | TrackHat | TM 1600M Hotas + Pedals

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I'm not a stickler for total realism, so in my books do whatever makes it work for you and allows you to enjoy it.

Having said that, I've never used any curves at all. I like a nice consistent linear movement from my stick and you'll get used to it with practice.

For sure on the AAR it's a PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE thing, not whatever curves you're using. And when you've done that PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE some more, and do some PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE for dessert :) (and when learning, you're better to leave the ordinance on the ground, because that desire to let lead fly at the tanker will become very difficult to hold in check :music_whistling:). Once you get it once or twice it gets much easier. The key thing I have found is that if you're getting close and you start to porpoise, back off and start over. You really can't fight that and win, it'll just frustrate you to no end chasing the basket. You don't have to back off far, just enough to stabilize and start in again. Very satisfying once you can do it, so worth the frustration to learn it.

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