[REPORTED] Is the SC catapult end-speed/force correct?

[obious]

Hi All,

 

After recently watching Wagg's Super Carrier launch video where he demonstrates how the new deck crew will direct you towards a catapult etc, I noticed that his' F-18's air speed at the end of shuttle stroke seemed very high (~200kts).

 

Watching various documentaries over the years (PBS's 'Carrier', 'Speed and Angels' etc), there is a constant reference to around a 130-150kts end-speed (i.e. 'going from 0 to 1XX in Y.X seconds is payback for all the time spent in flight training' is one quote I remember hearing somewhere) coming off of the deck.

 

I know there are going to be numerous variables that impact the speed the aircraft reaches at the end of the cat stroke (ambient temperature and density of the air, wind speed over the deck, aircraft weight etc) but my question/point is, should the F-18C in DCS (and I guess the F-14 also) be launching with a slower end-speed?

 

I haven't done it in a while but I also remember doing an experiment a few months ago when I launched without adding any throttle and I didn't notice much of a difference in speed coming off the deck than if I were in mil power/afterburner.

 

I guess my main point is that it seems a little bit too easy to launch and F-18C off the deck of the Stennis; can we expect a different experience with the SC?

 

Thanks

[kengou]

Could be he just launched with low weight or something?

[G B]

IRL, end speeds are determined by charts and tables in Aircraft Launch Bulletins (ALBs) that are referenced by the shooters. A number of factors, including wind, weight (given to the shooter by the pilot) and environmentals, will determine the parameters for the shooters to set the CSV (capacity selector calve). It’s a bit more complicated than most people realize. For example, a sufficiently asymmetrical loadout could have a more powerful shot than a symmetrical heavier loadout. Regardless, to the OP, 200 knots is pretty high. Don’t think I know of anyone that’s seen it that high.

 

For more information on catapults, a quick google search yielded this resource.

 

http://www.navybmr.com/study%20material/14310a/14310A_ch5.pdf

[MonnieRock]

IRL, end speeds are determined by charts and tables in Aircraft Launch Bulletins (ALBs) that are referenced by the shooters. A number of factors, including wind, weight (given to the shooter by the pilot) and environmentals, will determine the parameters for the shooters to set the CSV (capacity selector calve). It’s a bit more complicated than most people realize. For example, a sufficiently asymmetrical loadout could have a more powerful shot than a symmetrical heavier loadout. Regardless, to the OP, 200 knots is pretty high. Don’t think I know of anyone that’s seen it that high.

 

For more information on catapults, a quick google search yielded this resource.

 

http://www.navybmr.com/study%20material/14310a/14310A_ch5.pdf

 

 

Thank you GB for the link:thumbup:

 

I enjoyed reading that :book:

[randomTOTEN]

Wag's most recent SuperCarrier video:

 

End speed = between 191 and 215 KIAS.

Fuel load = 17,000lbs total.

Stores = unknown, perhaps the standard Single Mission configuration of AIM-9M*2, MK-82SE*4, FUEL*2 (44,600lbs Mission Editor).

 

Using the F404-GE-400 (yeah we have the 404) Takeoff Distance, Maximum Thrust (Wags selected MAX), Hard Dry Runway chart (ignoring distance, using speed only) and assuming standard 22% MAC C.G. should give takeoff speed 173 KIAS (48,000...next highest value). Add 15 knots "recommended" excess end speed gives 188 KIAS.

 

....hmmm... that's actually not that bad :thumbup:

 

EDIT: His fuel total suggest 3x FUEL not 2 like in the current Caucasus Mission.

Edited May 11, 2020 by randomTOTEN

[oldcrusty]

Wag's most recent SuperCarrier video:

 

 

End speed = between 191 and 215 KIAS.

Fuel load = 11,000lbs total.

Stores = unknown, perhaps the standard Instant Action configuration of AIM-9M*2, MK-82SE*4, FUEL*2 (44,600lbs Mission Editor).

 

 

Using the F404-GE-400 (yeah we have the 404) Takeoff Distance, Maximum Thrust (Wags selected MAX), Hard Dry Runway chart (ignoring distance, using speed only) and assuming standard 22% MAC C.G. should give takeoff speed 173 KIAS (48,000...next highest value). Add 15 knots "recommended" excess end speed gives 188 KIAS.

 

 

....hmmm... that's actually not that bad :thumbup:

 

I wonder how the devs factor in WOD.

[NineLine]

Just testing this in sim, with the Supercarrier, with a no burner or burner takeoff, the moment I disconnect from the cat I am at about 178-180 knots. Depending on if I have burner or not, I gain speed after that at varying amounts.

 

From what I can see in a quick search, it looks like it should be more likely about 150-160 knots? GB and others, is that what you guys are expecting?

[NineLine]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I have submitted a request to the team to have a look.

[Thump]

How is this a mystery a week or so from release?

[NineLine]

How is this a mystery a week or so from release?

 

Not that it was a mystery, more that it wasn't ever reported, it's really not game-breaking or so far off that it blows immersion. But it has been reported now, and a fix is in progress, I found a cool document from NASA that matched up with G B thoughts so that is good info for me to take to the team. Thanks.

[NineLine]

FYI

 

[obious]

That’s a bit more like it ;)

 

Thanks

[Jafergon]

Thanks! That was super quick!

[oldcrusty]

I assume the catapult shooters will know the difference between 35 knots of wind over deck and 0, cause on current Stennis they do:smilewink: You always fly off at the same (albeit high) airspeed. Then again, who launches or recovers with 0 WOD?:music_whistling:

Edited May 15, 2020 by Gripes323

[Greyman]

I wonder if I'll drop into the ocean with this fixed, as I haven't been using burners on take-off? ;)

[mambo]

:thumbup:

[NineLine]

I wonder if I'll drop into the ocean with this fixed, as I haven't been using burners on take-off? ;)

 

I wasn't using burners here, no issue.

[NineLine]

I assume the catapult shooters will know the difference between 35 knots of wind over deck and 0, cause on current Stennis they do:smilewink: You always fly off at the same (albeit high) airspeed. Then again, who launces or recovers with 0 WOD?:music_whistling:

 

It's all sorts of math, but the devs were talking about accounting for wind and such... then I saw a bunch of symbols and figures pass before my eyes and passed out. :)

[Chopper A-10]

Good news, it will be awesome!

[oldcrusty]

It's all sorts of math, but the devs were talking about accounting for wind and such... then I saw a bunch of symbols and figures pass before my eyes and passed out. :)

 

Oh no, I can't look at this stuff either. Just thinking about these 'phugoids' that Curly used to post makes me dizzy:cry:

[sLYFa]

Is this a hornet only feature or does the tomcat also get some fancy endspeed calculation?

[Eldur]

It's all sorts of math, but the devs were talking about accounting for wind and such... then I saw a bunch of symbols and figures pass before my eyes and passed out. :)

 

Like

?

 

Great to see this fixed already

[NineLine]

Is this a hornet only feature or does the tomcat also get some fancy endspeed calculation?

 

As I understood it, it's for the cats, THAT SAID, I am not sure, I will ask. Thanks.

[Snakedoc]

hey NineLine!

Did this fix make it to the release of the SC?

 

I'm playing the campaign "Cage the bear" from kaba:

when launching (using burner) the F/A18C from CVN-72 Lincoln I see IAS of 200+ kts at the end of the cat.

[Snakedoc]

Just tried to launch from the Roosevelt

 

If I try to launch from the CVN-71 even with the a/b the speed is around 170-180 so maybe the issue is related to the other carriers?