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Hornet Roadmap Discussion


Wags
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Let's just face it : When the Hornet is moved out of EA the attention of the dev team will shift to the next project. Some of the features that are still missing might be released sooner. But ED also has a long history of not delivering features over years.

 

So when you say we'll get ATFLIR at some point in 2021 or beyond, that might be true. But it might as well be like multicrew, that years later still isn't there.

 

BTW, what about the stuff that isn't even on the list any more like CAS page, SHRIKE and this mine thingys? Any idea when we will be able to enter GRID coords like we get from JTAC all the time?

 

Now that the list of features to be delivered during Early Access has been cut like this I would like to refund my Hornet.

 

+1

 

Please contact support directly

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/

 

Thank you

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I will throw my two cents.

 

First of all I really like transparence like this you have shown ED, even when dissapoints some people. It is the way to go, although not a pleasant road sometimes I must admit.

 

Regarding the roadmap, I will share my humble opinion. The roadmap is good but in general I will stick to the following principle:

-Systems and FM first and then weapons

-I would like any hotas command missing witihin the 2020 period.

-I think finishing anything related to JHMCS functionality is a good call

-I would love that markpoints and MGRS grid coordinates format to be moved higher up the priority list.

-S/A and automatic countemeasures and DATA cardtrige is quite important and a QoL addition that would be great to have on 2020.

 

Thats all, and a happy customer here that will still buy your amazing products.


Edited by falcon_120
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At least it’s good to have a clearing on way forward, we should appreciate the quality of stuff EA brings us, but I would definitely like to see a change in priorities to focus on finishing FM and systems first so we have a more functional airframe , and keep other stuff for addition as updates later

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I'm a simple guy: I'm happy as long as there is progess :)

 

Agreed. I would think that for such a complex aircraft it would be very difficult to ever declare it "finished" as there will always be improvements and fixes to do. I'm happy that its being worked on. I think it might be an idea to decide if there are some smaller functions and sub-functions which may well not be worth the time and declare them as out of scope? It is a sim after all and the weapons and associated systems are well beyond what is offered anywhere else, and probably unreasonable to be fully simulated.

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Interresting, are you really willing to refund us or it's just for moving subject?

 

It is not something we control on the forum, support are the best people to talk to in this regard.

 

Thank you

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I will throw my two cents.

 

First of all I really like transparence like this you have shown ED, even when dissapoints some people. It is the way to go, although not a pleasant road sometimes I must admit.

 

Regarding the roadmap, I will share my humble opinion. The roadmap is good but in general I will stick to the following principle:

-Systems and FM first and then weapons

-I would like any hotas command missing witihin the 2020 period.

-I think finishing anything related to JHMCS functionality is a good call

-I would love that markpoints and MGRS grid coordinates format to be moved higher up the priority list.

-S/A and automatic countemeasures and DATA cardtrige is quite important and a QoL addition that would be great to have on 2020.

 

Thats all, and a happy customer here that will still buy your amazing products.

 

This is a very good point, i agree with most of what you say.

Especially Data Cartridge, Hotas commands and JHMCS AG functionality.

Vincent "Virus" 

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I'm good with the roadmap as presented. Personally I hadn't expected the Hornet to get properly feature complete until around 2022 when I bought it originally so there's no major disappointment for me. Other people's mileage might vary given previous comments from ED though.

 

Always better to have this sort of transparency across the board for all products where possible. It's understandable that things can change along the way but once everybody's clear on what's going on it removes a lot of the conjecture/nonsense that otherwise goes on and just causes issues. I think it'd be a good idea to produce a similar roadmap estimate for the F-16 now so people are clearer around the timelines there too.

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I would like to see flight model and major systems at the expense of new weapons.

 

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

 

This. 100% agreed :thumbup:

 

And if they decide to add weapons I'd rather have them fix and finish the current ones (HARPOON, HARM, JDAM) before implementing completely new ones.

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A Day In The Life of the Hornet Module-

I have thought about it in a new way and decided to share which missing features prevent a fulfilling experience for me in normal use:

 

1) No campaign- I load into the game and still only see the mini campaign which is a bit lacking, so I start it again and select the CAS mission

 

2) No data card entry- I load into the game and immediately fall behind timeline and takeoff late while having to setup systems that should already be done in settings. I have to select bypass on dispenser to save time from setting up programs airborne

 

3) No Az/El- On the way to the target area I don't have a key A/A page

 

4) No CAS Page/Grid Entry- You cannot use a JTAC in CAS in the F-18 because there is no way to enter the grid coordinates they provide. And then there is no CAS page to do it properly.

 

5) No ATFLIR- I don't bother using the Lightening Pod in these realistic missions for the same reason I do not use the F-15 off the aircraft carrier.. it is too far from reality to be fulfilling to some.

 

6) JHMCS A/G Designation- So I see the target and cannot designate it with the helmet and have to do it through the HUD.

 

7) Ground Effect- So I decide to do some low level flying and get sucked into the ground by reverse ground effect.

 

8) Tanking- So I RTB and decide to tank, but the hose dynamics are a bit clunky, and the external model of the S-3 itself is immersion detracting

 

9) ACLS- It is stormy and I am missing a key landing mode for Case III. ICLS works, but would be nice to do it right.

 

10) Excessive Pitch Up- So I bolter (of course) and the pitch up is so extreme it requires full forward stick to avoid overshooting altitude.

 

I hope this helps bring a little attention to which features affect some basic gameplay. I still love the module and appreciate the detail that has gone into it thus far. Just trying to help you prioritize. Thanks!


Edited by strikerdg
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Finally,you guys figure out how many features are missing and how hornet development project went totally wrong,that you cant finish F-18 this year.ehhhhhh

 

The idea of releasing F-16 and putting F-18 developer into F-16 hurt purchasers of both these module.I think many of them including me are very very disappointed and will never never buy EA module ever!

 

Some of these feature to be release in 2020 should have been release now if you guys didnt 'subject to change' something.What team promise us F-16 release will not slow F-18 dev right?

 

 

Over the past 6 months or maybe 8 months(?), Hornet really didnt get many actual feature updates,you can see now some of these feature only take 2 weeks to complete.I just didnt get it,why we didnt get this feature.

Carrying double flares have been montioned at least 1 year ago,it's easy to modify and it have been a year and we still dont have it.

 

 

And also FM,I know it;s highly WIP,and you just leave it 'Highly WIP' and we did see any change over at least 1 year I think


Edited by tifafan
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great list, Wags, thank you very much!

 

if i may, i would suggest as a general rule (for any module) to prioritize implementation of features that would produce "negative learning" when missing.

this may not so much apply to items that everybody can add to their flows, although they have no effect, like a pitot switch.

but it matters, if you start to learn doing things in a cumbersome or wrong way, because a functionality is simply not there.

 

cheers

HiLok

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A Day In The Life of the Hornet Module-

I have thought about it in a new way and decided to share which missing features prevent a fulfilling experience for me in normal use:

 

1) No campaign- I load into the game and still only see the mini campaign which is a bit lacking, so I start it again and select the CAS mission

 

2) No data card entry- I load into the game and immediately fall behind timeline and takeoff late while having to setup systems that should already be done in settings. I have to select bypass on dispenser to save time from setting up programs airborne

 

3) No Az/El- On the way to the target area I don't have a key A/A page

 

4) No CAS Page/Grid Entry- You cannot use a JTAC in CAS in the F-18 because there is no way to enter the grid coordinates they provide. And then there is no CAS page to do it properly.

 

5) No ATFLIR- I don't bother using the Lightening Pod in these realistic missions for the same reason I do not use the F-15 off the aircraft carrier.. it is too far from reality to be fulfilling to some.

 

6) JHMCS A/G Designation- So I see the target and cannot designate it with the helmet and have to do it through the HUD.

 

7) Ground Effect- So I decide to do some low level flying and get sucked into the ground by reverse ground effect.

 

8) Tanking- So I RTB and decide to tank, but the hose dynamics are a bit clunky, and the external model of the S-3 itself is immersion detracting

 

9) ACLS- It is stormy and I am missing a key landing mode for Case III. ICLS works, but would be nice to do it right.

 

10) Excessive Pitch Up- So I bolter (of course) and the pitch up is so extreme it requires full forward stick to avoid overshooting altitude.

 

I hope this helps bring a little attention to which features affect some basic gameplay. Thanks!

 

It is also my feelings, thanks !!

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I'm not surprised. Thinking about using paypal buyer protection. This is most likely a SNAD (=Significantly Not As Described) case.

 

Good idea for investing,

 

 

and i confirm, i'll never buy another unfinished product! Ed has ruined my vision of early access concept or any financial support for "future" project, including any other markets. And we're many people like that (and growing more and more).

Some years ago i've warned to long term impact of lack of honesty and transparency, answer was lifetime warning or others punctual punishment. Im glad to see its better now, you're more open for discussion, and now i think you can see was right by past.

 

@wags: please just keep in mind we will all lose if ED sink, you for market credibility and us for losing use of high potential simulation software, but high potential doesn't mean customers will accept everything, you can control communication here but not on others communities, sharing many things about DCS,

you know its limited market, its good to work at growing harcore sim community but not to the detriment of older customers because renewal is not sufficient…

 

Its just suggestion, not a rude report, i don't blame you for my F-18 early purchase, i was wrong and its my error, but was last time, you will lose more customers if you dont change direction

 

Have a good day sir.

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For me the slow trickle of new features is similar to how modern fighter jets are developed anyway. Look at how long it’s taken the Luftwaffe to add air to ground weapons to the Eurofighter or the pace of F-35 development. Replicating these machines isn’t easy and I agree with others who enjoy the time learning new features as they come out. The delay is frustrating but I’ve already gotten my money’s worth of fun from the Hornet and the stuff they’re adding this year is still a major progression.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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We currently have a functioning INS included with the Hornet, what the improvement is, is the simulation of INS alignment, making it more realistic and more of a simulation. So, yes in this case, its an improvement to an already existing system that we want to make better. Hope that makes sense, thanks!

 

Im sry but the existing system is FAR FAR FAR away from complete, existing or how ever you call it, its an simply button on everything is running system and nothing more,... it is not worth to call it a simulation of anything,...

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You need a new term to describe this, okay not early acces, but still not finished product. It's fine just don't call it finished product, call it if you want semi-finished. Anyways, roadmap looks great and when this module its turly finished it would be the best product in DCS for sure.

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"Early access is not for everybody, so don't but it" has been written here many times. It is not for me but after reading Mr Grey post on Reddit "ED needs early access" I decided to help and bought the F-18. Early access is based on trust. When I send ED money I trusted they would deliver what was promised on a "reasonable time". "Reasonable time" is open for discussion, fine, but now the "what" is also up in the air.

 

ED, what I am going to say next is not meant to upset you or just in despite, it is just a hope that you think about your business model: I no longer trust you to deliver what was promised, I will definitely no longer participate in any early access.

 

I hope ED doesn't need my early access contribution to survive and that it continues to grow and deliver great products.

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I would love to see GRID (MGRS coordinates) input for waypoints/coordinates functional on the MFD/UFC where applicable.

Shagrat

 

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A Day In The Life of the Hornet Module-

I have thought about it in a new way and decided to share which missing features prevent a fulfilling experience for me in normal use:

 

1) No campaign- I load into the game and still only see the mini campaign which is a bit lacking, so I start it again and select the CAS mission

 

2) No data card entry- I load into the game and immediately fall behind timeline and takeoff late while having to setup systems that should already be done in settings. I have to select bypass on dispenser to save time from setting up programs airborne

 

3) No Az/El- On the way to the target area I don't have a key A/A page

 

4) No CAS Page/Grid Entry- You cannot use a JTAC in CAS in the F-18 because there is no way to enter the grid coordinates they provide. And then there is no CAS page to do it properly.

 

5) No ATFLIR- I don't bother using the Lightening Pod in these realistic missions for the same reason I do not use the F-15 off the aircraft carrier.. it is too far from reality to be fulfilling to some.

 

6) JHMCS A/G Designation- So I see the target and cannot designate it with the helmet and have to do it through the HUD.

 

7) Ground Effect- So I decide to do some low level flying and get sucked into the ground by reverse ground effect.

 

8) Tanking- So I RTB and decide to tank, but the hose dynamics are a bit clunky, and the external model of the S-3 itself is immersion detracting

 

9) ACLS- It is stormy and I am missing a key landing mode for Case III. ICLS works, but would be nice to do it right.

 

10) Excessive Pitch Up- So I bolter (of course) and the pitch up is so extreme it requires full forward stick to avoid overshooting altitude.

 

I hope this helps bring a little attention to which features affect some basic gameplay. I still love the module and appreciate the detail that has gone into it thus far. Just trying to help you prioritize. Thanks!

 

Finally,you guys figure out how many features are missing and how hornet development project went totally wrong,that you cant finish F-18 this year.ehhhhhh

 

The idea of releasing F-16 and putting F-18 developer into F-16 hurt purchasers of both these module.I think many of them including me are very very disappointed and will never never buy EA module ever!

 

Some of these feature to be release in 2020 should have been release now if you guys didnt 'subject to change' something.What team promise us F-16 release will not slow F-18 dev right?

 

 

Over the past 6 months or maybe 8 months(?), Hornet really didnt get many actual feature updates,you can see now some of these feature only take 2 weeks to complete.I just didnt get it,why we didnt get this feature.

Carrying double flares have been montioned at least 1 year ago,it's easy to modify and it have been a year and we still dont have it.

 

 

And also FM,I know it;s highly WIP,and you just leave it 'Highly WIP' and we did see any change over at least 1 year I think

 

 

Completly agree. I don't want to teach ED its work, I know nothing. But if Wags tells me "these features in 3/6/12 months", I expect ED to keep his word.

It's a matter of professionalism, seriousness and respect for customers who support ED business.

I am a costumer from first LockOn times and now I'm tired, always the same story, the way of communicating has changed, but the facts have not.

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