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RADAR and framerate issues

Shibbyland

By Shibbyland
in MiG-21Bis

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fjacobsen

fjacobsen

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It really seems that they aren´t very willing to fix this.

It cannot be right that this hasn´t been fixed after such a long period.

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rossmum

rossmum

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I bought the Mig-21 knowing the radar issue. Rolling back to stone age drivers solved the issue for me.

 

is there a discord for migheads?

 

I don't know if there's a single place, we're scattered across a couple of Discords.

 

As for the above post: unwilling and unable are not the same thing. Without assistance from ED any fix will take a while to happen and it's possible the radar will need to be reworked entirely until the actual cause of the problem is found and addressed. Whatever it is, it's clearly related to ground clutter and something that has changed in video drivers.

 

Devs can't just magic fixes out of their backsides, especially third party devs who have only as much access to the nuts and bolts of DCS as ED gives them. On top of that M3 are one of the smaller teams.

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enigma6584

enigma6584

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As for the above post: unwilling and unable are not the same thing. Without assistance from ED any fix will take a while to happen and it's possible the radar will need to be reworked entirely until the actual cause of the problem is found and addressed. Whatever it is, it's clearly related to ground clutter and something that has changed in video drivers.

 

Devs can't just magic fixes out of their backsides, especially third party devs who have only as much access to the nuts and bolts of DCS as ED gives them. On top of that M3 are one of the smaller teams.

 

Spot on. It just disappoints me the amount of innuendos I see thrown at Third Party developers for a product that is in constant development of which the bye-product will be issues that rear up. To be a Third Party developer, let alone a flight sim developer; what a thankless job.

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  • 2 weeks later...
tanr

tanr

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In case it's related to the radar / fps issue, for anybody tracking this, I've got a different (but maybe related) repro case.

 

For me FPS is decent in the MiG-21 with radar on, until I go to the F10 map. Once I've pressed F10 and then returned to the F1 view, FPS goes from the 70-120 range down to about 10 fps. NVidea Quadro RTX 5000 with current studio drivers.

 

I can record a track if that's helpful.

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MiG21bisFishbedL

MiG21bisFishbedL

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It really seems that they aren´t very willing to fix this.

It cannot be right that this hasn´t been fixed after such a long period.

 

When you squash one bug, you run the risk of creating way more. On top of that, Hiromachi has alluded to this being a fix that could prove trying. They're developing the Corsair AND Crusader on top of supporting the MiG-21 and CEII. As rossmum pointed out, this is one of the smaller teams, as well. We're all sick of this bug, believe me. But, rushing out a fix will only make things worse.

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Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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fjacobsen

fjacobsen

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When you squash one bug, you run the risk of creating way more. On top of that, Hiromachi has alluded to this being a fix that could prove trying. They're developing the Corsair AND Crusader on top of supporting the MiG-21 and CEII. As rossmum pointed out, this is one of the smaller teams, as well. We're all sick of this bug, believe me. But, rushing out a fix will only make things worse.

 

Fixing a bug that has been around for more than 7 month can hardly be called "rushed".

As it is now this module is not usable.

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rossmum

rossmum

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And yet, there are a lot of modules with major bugs that have been around for even longer. Third parties have more limited resources to work with and ED cooperation is necessary for some issues that lie with either the core game, or some aspect of the core game interacting poorly with driver updates, as this appears to be.

 

I am quite sure that if they were capable of fixing it themselves, it would've already happened by now.

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MiG21bisFishbedL

MiG21bisFishbedL

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Fixing a bug that has been around for more than 7 month can hardly be called "rushed".

As it is now this module is not usable.

 

Did you miss the part where they're working on two others and supporting a third? And, as rossmum said, this issue may be faced with limitations on the part of Mag3. It's not that easy. Until then, sling heaters.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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Schmidtfire

Schmidtfire

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Issue is till present in latest update.

 

 

Did you miss the part where they're working on two others and supporting a third? And, as rossmum said, this issue may be faced with limitations on the part of Mag3. It's not that easy. Until then, sling heaters.

 

I love to sling heaters, but that does not solve issues with finding enemy at longer ranges, in night/bad weather or IFF. Not saying it is an easy fix, but it has been 7 months with ED aware of the situation. If this would happen for months and months to the Viper, Hornet, Tomcat or Viggen there would be pitchforks flying all over.

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MiG21bisFishbedL

MiG21bisFishbedL

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Issue is till present in latest update.

 

 

 

I love to sling heaters, but that does not solve issues with finding enemy at longer ranges, in night/bad weather or IFF. Not saying it is an easy fix, but it has been 7 months with ED aware of the situation. If this would happen for months and months to the Viper, Hornet, Tomcat or Viggen there would be pitchforks flying all over.

 

Obviously it's not preferable. No one is going to deny that. And yeah, it is pretty unfair for us MiG jockeys to be backburnered like this. But, at the end of the day, passive aggression here never fixed anything. Until then, we don't have a choice but to rely more heavily on GCI/AWACS and the IR guided offerings. It's not ideal given how barebones it is in DCS, but it is what it is. We don't know the full picture and it'd probably be nice to hear from Hiromachi where this stands and if they at least have a presumed way forward.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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rossmum

rossmum

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If you guys don't absolutely require the latest video drivers to live (and some of you with newer cards or NASA rigs or who play newer games might - that's fine), all I'm gonna say is I'm still sitting here with no issues at all. 442.16 is known to work. I'm on 438.something. If you're a real MiGhead and don't have anything really requiring you to be up to date, just roll back for the duration. Obviously it's far from ideal, but it works, and at this point that's my main concern.

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Dragon1-1

Dragon1-1

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TBH, it doesn't seem to matter anymore, since with the latest update you can't see the contacts, anyway. :) I do hope that one doesn't take a year to fix...

 

They really should take a look at this, RAZBAM's MiG-19 has a similar-looking clutter effect, but their radar doesn't kill the FPS. It would probably take some doing (read: completely recoding the radar display), but given how long it's been bugged, I'd suggest M3 give thought to that solution.

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MiG21bisFishbedL

MiG21bisFishbedL

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TBH, it doesn't seem to matter anymore, since with the latest update you can't see the contacts, anyway. :) I do hope that one doesn't take a year to fix...

 

They really should take a look at this, RAZBAM's MiG-19 has a similar-looking clutter effect, but their radar doesn't kill the FPS. It would probably take some doing (read: completely recoding the radar display), but given how long it's been bugged, I'd suggest M3 give thought to that solution.

 

If everything is broken, where is problem, tovarisch?

 

Hiromachi had mentioned that their fallback was reducing the fidelity of the radar screen. Not optimal, but if it works, it works.

 

If you guys don't absolutely require the latest video drivers to live (and some of you with newer cards or NASA rigs or who play newer games might - that's fine), all I'm gonna say is I'm still sitting here with no issues at all. 442.16 is known to work. I'm on 438.something. If you're a real MiGhead and don't have anything really requiring you to be up to date, just roll back for the duration. Obviously it's far from ideal, but it works, and at this point that's my main concern.

 

It's definitely worth considering. I've since upgraded as I've been doing a lot of ground attack in the MiG sans Grom, anyways. Either way, it works.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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Northstar98

Northstar98

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TBH, it doesn't seem to matter anymore, since with the latest update you can't see the contacts, anyway. :) I do hope that one doesn't take a year to fix...

 

They really should take a look at this, RAZBAM's MiG-19 has a similar-looking clutter effect, but their radar doesn't kill the FPS. It would probably take some doing (read: completely recoding the radar display), but given how long it's been bugged, I'd suggest M3 give thought to that solution.

 

I'm pretty sure what Magnitude were trying to do was employ raycasting to better simulate clutter for their RADAR, but unlike Heatblur and RAZBAM's MiG-19P (which AFAIK both use raycasting to simulate their RADARs), Magnitude's implementation hits the framerate hard.

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kotor633

kotor633

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Yesterday I got the Mig-21 out of the virtual hangar again. FA-18 and Mig-21 are currently in my focus. Had then thrown her radar in the air at the Mig. And I'm totally terrified! My FPS number ranges from about 55 - 66 frames. After the radar was on, the frames are abruptly down to 10.  And that every time I turned the radar off and on again. I didn't know if it mattered, I was on the Nevada map. I hadn't tested other maps. Leatherneck is probably already there. Hope they solve it soon. The Mig-21 is simply ONE OF THE BEST MODULE IN DCS!!

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AlpineGTA

AlpineGTA

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Flying the Mig-21 this week for the first time in a while I noticed my FPS wasn't dropping like it used to with the radar on. I assumed that ED had maybe fixed it but then I remembered there was an update I installed for my AMD graphics card drivers the other day. Maybe that was the fix. Interesting though that I'm using AMD and not NVIDIA but still seem to be experiencing a radar FPS fix with a GPU driver update. I was having a similar issue with the Viggen radar. I'll have to fly that too to test it.

i5-11600K CPU, 64GB DDR4 RAM, XFX Speedster MERC319 AMD Radeon 6900 XT, Oculus Quest 2, HP Reverb G2

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Dragon1-1

Dragon1-1

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They've said in another thread that they're testing a fix, hopefully it will make it into the next OB update, which comes out on the 16th. We'll see how it looks then. Both the framerate and inability to see contacts should be fixed if it really does work like it should.

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Hiromachi

Hiromachi

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So this is just a brief statement but I wanted to say that today we have committed a long awaited radar fix. This is both to cure drastic framerate drops and loss of contact at lower altitudes. 

 

This fix was in testing for the past week and based on the tests conducted internally there seems to be no performance degradation with radar turned on. I did a few stress tests and placed for example 15 planes in front of me along with heavy clouds and still FPS was up there. Similarly in heavy jamming situation or flying in Caucasus valleys. 

However keep in mind that testing by its nature was limited to a few people so something might need tweaking . Furthermore, this fix is a very significant code rework for the radar and while its functionality is checked, again, its possible that smaller issues might be revealed. 

 

So right now this is in ED hands and hopefully it will make it to the patch before Christmas. 

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