F14B for air to ground: was it for real or as a "last option" ?

[itarrow]

I always thought about the F14 as an A2A platform, and I love to learn it and use it as this in DCS.

 

While going through the training missions etc, so far I've refused to do A2G missions, and I'm skipping it within the DCE campaign I'm progressing in.

 

It's not that I'm against A2G: I love the Harrier or the F18 and I'm learning and doing A2G on those aircrafts... but I find myself refusing the idea of doing A2G with the Tomcat.

 

I have this weird idea (too much Top Gun...) that even at the time, ground pounding was an A6/A7/F18 business, leaving to the F14 the A2A task, and maybe going for A2G just in desperate situations where no other platform was available...

 

Anyway I want to check with you guys more experienced than me on the real F14 history.

 

Without talking about "capability" (as I understand that the F14 is A2G capable)... was the Tomcat really used for A2G missions, or was it just as a "last chance" possibility ? Has there been real F14 A2G historic significant missions ?

[draconus]

Just like many fighters the Tomcat was designed as an A2A platform - mainly as interceptor, fleet defence and air superiority fighter. Later on due to changing world pressing different demands it was upgraded with A2G capabilities and extensively used in this role in many real conflicts and not just as a last resort. Look at Balkan wars in '95 and '99.

Edited April 20, 2020 by draconus

[legearre]

Rather than relying on others, read for yourself the a2g role the 14 played in history. Recommend the Osprey book 14 Tomcat Units of Operation Enduring Freedom. There would be no tactical early days of the Afghan conflict without the 14’s endurance, bombing, lasing and FAC-A capability. Or the book Black Aces High detailing the 14’s a2g role in Kosovo.

[kengou]

The F-14 was built and designed with the capability to deliver ground ordnance. And F-14 pilots won multiple bombing competitions against dedicated air to ground platforms. The stability of the aircraft and the tv slaved with the ccip pipper means it’s exceptionally accurate. It can also carry lots of ordnance with tons of endurance. And the lantirn set along with the larger screens the RIO has made it better at locating targets using the tpod than platforms like Hornet at the time of the early 90s. And made it an excellent fac(a).

[QuiGon]

The Tomcat was one of the prime strike platforms in the balkan wars in the late 90s! It also served in the AFAC role there, because of its targeting pod qualities that were much better than many others.

In the early 2000s Tomcats did also carry out quite a bit of striking in Afghanistan for Operation Enduring Freedom.

[Mikeck]

Try reading “Black Aces High”. It’s all about the A2G role the F-14 played in Serbia/Kosovo in 1999. Follows a specific squadron as they learn to use the lantirn and Tarps pod in a tactically significant way. But yes, it was the Navy’s equivalent of the F-15E. It’s only long range heavy hauling A2G platform. Replaced by the Superhornet which- b/c it carried 33% more fuel and ordinance, was capable of long range interdiction. Before then, the F-18 was just to short legged

[Mikeck]

Should read: 33% more than the F-18C

[Swordsman422]

Not much that I can add that hasn't been said here. It was pretty incredible to watch the F-14 transform from a dedicated air-to-air platform into the Navy's premier all-weather Strike, CAS, COIN, and SCAR platform without losing an ounce of its outstanding air-to-air capability, especially given that this transition occurred with off-the-shelf technology.

 

The decision was made in the post-Cold War drawdown that saw the impending demise of the A-6 Intruder and failure of the A-12 program, which would leave the US Navy without a long range strike and interdiction platform. Seeing also the potential retirement of the F-14, the Tomcat community jumped to fill this gap and did so beyond expectation on a shoestring budget. Adopting the a2g mission might have been a desperate grab to save the F-14, but the Tomcat excelled in this role and became the goto platform for strike missions launched from the sea for the following decade.

 

Edit: I'll also add I'm looking forward to Jester being able to operate the LANTIRN. Swapping back and forth is a bit of a pain. I always have to pop back to the RIO's seat after weapons released to make sure the LANTIRN doesn't go off point.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Swordsman422

[shagrat]

If you are interested in the path that lead to the "Bombcat" this is a good collection of the reasons, what the community did to get LANTIRN on a Tomcat, despite being an off the shelves pod designed mostly for the Air Force. (may need to Google for local distributor. I used the pocket mags app on mobile, but they have a webviewer, and if your lucky some shop/distributor still has a printed magazine in stock).

https://pocketmags.com/de/combat-aircraft-magazine/f-14-bombcat

[Bearfoot]

The Osprey series, as noted, is excellent.

 

On the US side, the Tomcats saw far, far, far, far, far, far, FAR more A2G action over their lifetime than A2A. In fact, during the Gulf Wars, they could not do A2A tasks, because they lacked organic ("suitcased") IFF, and with the skies so full of friendlies, target sorting (which would have to be routed through AWACS) would have been a nightmare. So the F/A-18's picked up those missions and the Tomcats went to ground pound. IIRC, their use/performance in the first round was rather limited due to lack of precision weapon capability. Then they got the LANTIRN upgrade, "hot", and crew largely figured out procedures and protocols while "on-the-job". And they absolutely shone in this role --- you almost could not have designed them better for the A2G role. (Maybe their F-111 spiritual ancestor blessed them??).

 

Statistically speaking, in actual US combat service (as opposed to hundreds of thousands of hours watching out for the fleet in the Cold War context), the Tomcat was functionally an A2G bird (though I don't know or think the crew may have necessarily seen it that way?).

 

If you wanted to have seen Tomcats routinely operate and perform in combat in the characteristic A2A role in any statistically appreciable numbers, you will have to look to Iran. Hundreds (and hundreds and hundreds??) of engagements, from BVR to dogfights, CAP to scramble-intercepts, etc. etc. A few good books out on these, too, including an Osprey one as well as a dedicated collections of "war stories".

[Scrape]

The Navy didn't use the Tomcat in an A2G role for a long time, and we know this. However, the engineers had designed the Tomcat with A2G in mind. The earliest red and white test Tomcats went through their trials with A2G stores for a reason. Designed for and use of did not converge until later.

[punk]

I always thought about the F14 as an A2A platform, and I love to learn it and use it as this in DCS.

 

While going through the training missions etc, so far I've refused to do A2G missions, and I'm skipping it within the DCE campaign I'm progressing in.

 

It's not that I'm against A2G: I love the Harrier or the F18 and I'm learning and doing A2G on those aircrafts... but I find myself refusing the idea of doing A2G with the Tomcat.

 

I have this weird idea (too much Top Gun...) that even at the time, ground pounding was an A6/A7/F18 business, leaving to the F14 the A2A task, and maybe going for A2G just in desperate situations where no other platform was available...

 

Anyway I want to check with you guys more experienced than me on the real F14 history.

 

Without talking about "capability" (as I understand that the F14 is A2G capable)... was the Tomcat really used for A2G missions, or was it just as a "last chance" possibility ? Has there been real F14 A2G historic significant missions ?

And the myths and misunderstandings just keep on enduring. Where did they all start? My guess is it must have been jealous hornet riders. :music_whistling:

 

Salute,

:punk:

[Crushenator123]

Well, they did call it the Bombcat later in life!

Our F-14B in DCS is a BEAST in the A/G role. It can carry up to 18 mk.82 dumb bombs, or 4 LGBs with LANTIRN for guidance. Nothing quite like carpet bombing the ENTIRE Runway in 1 pass!

You really haven't experienced all the Tomcat has to offer if you have never seen a tank explode on your LANTIRN scope, Heatblur really did an amazing job with the visual effects on the screen when the bomb explodes! And doing LANTIRN ops with a human RIO is just a blast. Even better - buddy lazing with human crews, it takes a lot of co-ordination with your wingmen to get it right but it is oh so satisfying!

Don't write it off just because it was famous for having that giant missile! Way more than a 1 trick pony :)

[QuiGon]

You really haven't experienced all the Tomcat has to offer if you have never seen a tank explode on your LANTIRN scope, Heatblur really did an amazing job with the visual effects on the screen when the bomb explodes! And doing LANTIRN ops with a human RIO is just a blast. Even better - buddy lazing with human crews, it takes a lot of co-ordination with your wingmen to get it right but it is oh so satisfying!

Don't write it off just because it was famous for having that giant missile! Way more than a 1 trick pony :)

This!!!

[Chaogen]

The Navy didn't use the Tomcat in an A2G role for a long time, and we know this. However, the engineers had designed the Tomcat with A2G in mind. The earliest red and white test Tomcats went through their trials with A2G stores for a reason. Designed for and use of did not converge until later.

 

 

Yeah. Even if you knew nothing else, the cockpit clearly shows that A2G capability was there from the start. Ordinance release on the Stick. A2G Mode on the HUD. All the A2G Munitions settings in the RIO pit weren't afterthoughts. They were always there. Just not used. [edit: extensively until later. Before someone feels the need to correct me.]

Edited April 21, 2020 by Chaogen

[statrekmike]

The book 'Black Aces High' really digs into the air to ground operations of Tomcats in Kosovo. It is a pretty solid book and does get into quite a bit of detail about how well the Tomcat performed in that role.

[eatthis]

The F-14 was built and designed with the capability to deliver ground ordnance. And F-14 pilots won multiple bombing competitions against dedicated air to ground platforms. The stability of the aircraft and the tv slaved with the ccip pipper means it’s exceptionally accurate. It can also carry lots of ordnance with tons of endurance. And the lantirn set along with the larger screens the RIO has made it better at locating targets using the tpod than platforms like Hornet at the time of the early 90s. And made it an excellent fac(a).

 

how do you slave the tcs to the ccip piper?

[Fri13]

[Dudikoff]

Should read: 33% more than the F-18C

 

A 33% improvement on 'horrible' range makes it what? Just 'bad'?

Edited April 24, 2020 by Dudikoff

[Sublimearrepentido]

A 33% improvement on 'horrible' range makes it what? Just 'bad'?

 

Perhaps but also at the time there was a A6 and KA6 fleet and the navy had a lot of S3 vikings too

[IronMike]

It is a general misconception that the Tomcat was not designed for air to ground. The Tomcat was always designed with multi role capabilities in mind, and grumman did an excellent job here as well. All of the air to ground stuff you find in the B, was already present from the get go:

 

To cut a long story short, it went a bit like this: the navy wanted it, then they did not want it. So in the early As all the weapon panel stuff in the back for the RIO was there, but not properly wired. But all of what would happen, has already been envisioned by grumman. Once the Navy redicided and wanted a2g again, they had to call in grumman engineers to rewire everything again, because no one knew how to, for obvious reasons. once that was done, the tomcat absolutely excelled in air to ground. it held many records in many competitions and it played crucial roles, not only in ground attack roles, afac, etc, but also in close air support.

 

You also need to watch speed and angels, hehe. You would remember the terror at the end "Face" is going through, when troops call in cas, and he performs a gun run on enemy troops, danger close, friendly troops screaming and then sudden silence on the radio. for a second he thought it was friendly fire, only to be relieved by the errupting cheers of the guys on the ground shortly after. It is a memorable moment and shows just how capable and helpful the Tomcat was in all things air to ground. Sure, it didnt carry mavericks, etc. But who knows what all would have happened, if it had stayed in service, it would have surely received more and more upgrades of more modern a2g weapons.

 

Another thing to keep in mind: apart from Iran, due to being at war with Iraq, the role the Tomcat had to show its prowess the least, was actually air to air. Mainly because it was so terrifying in this role, that it acted as something even better: a very strong deterrent that kept the enemy away, without having to fire on them. that is the ultimate concept of a weapon. that it is so strong that in fact you do not have to use it. but the one role it fulfilled very much indeed, apart from fleet defense or a2a and a2g, was recconnaissance. Many Tomcat missions were tarps missions, which provided most crucial data for the US, both for strategic and tactical decisions.

 

Please forgive me pulling history together in such a simplistic and incomplete way, many in this forum are much better educated in the Tomcat's history than I am. But the point is to say: explore it. It is by all means not an a2a fighter alone, it is so much more.

[DerBayer]

So air to ground with unguided bombs and rockets was never a real option?

[TLTeo]

Victory205 posted somewhere on this forum that Tomcats didn't carry rockets when operating from the boat, but otherwise, both are a perfectly valid option.

 

 

Even during the NATO interventions in the Balkans, a fair bit of the ordnance used was still unguided.

[QuiGon]

So air to ground with unguided bombs and rockets was never a real option?

Rockets were never used, not even in training AFAIK. Unguided bombs on the other hand were used quite well even early on. The Tomcat had pretty good CCIP accuracy for dumb bombs.

Edited April 25, 2020 by QuiGon

[IronMike]

So air to ground with unguided bombs and rockets was never a real option?

 

 

Rockets have always been an option and have been tested, but not used. As for the rest, check the post directly above yours.