FFB, AOA, FM considerations

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

Mig21bis in DCS has been easily my favorite DCS module. I've flown in online for thousands of hours and quite competitively on the cold war servers.

 

I use a FFB stick so the feeling of holding the nose just above stall requires roughly the same amount of stick pressure even as the speed and stick angles both change dynamically. So it is quite easy to hold the Mig 21 on the edge without looking at the AOA indicator if you have a FFB stick.

 

Of course most DCS flyers don't use FFB and it is no surprise to me that many complain that they can't fly the Mig21 in a dog fight. Ofcourse they can't. They can't tell if the plane is about to stall with no ffb. They have to take their eyes off the enemy and look at the AOA indicator... There are two flashing red lights that warn of AOA limit on the canopy but they are too low to see while looking up at an enemy plane you are turning into.

 

I could speculate that the devs have caved into pressure from these people and made the mig now impossible to stall from over Alpha. I just tested it and there is no FFB ( which makes me wonder if the Devs are flying without FFB) and I can just hold the stick back to the stop at all speeds without any chance of departure. It is now like Fly By Wire and the best thing about this module is lost.

 

Maybe some more visible cockpit shaking might help the non FFB guys know that they are about to go over AOA limits.

 

Or even better, some sound effects of the air frame straining would also be a good help for knowing the AOA limits are approaching. The Viggen airframe for example makes a lot of noise as you approach AOA limits.

 

Please consider sounds and visual ques to show AOA limits instead of removing them completely. Many of us love this aspect of flying the mig21

 

I for one hope the AOA limits are restored to more challenging and realistic levels and the FFB fixed. Mig21 has such great FFB in DCS it was the only module I could feel the transition from supersonic to subsonic in FFB stick pressure alone.

[Moody1204]

Reported and investigated :

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=270231

 

 

:thumbup:

[Eldur]

Not having FFB is like having to fly without a stick...

[JAPman]

I enjoyed the CFS2 Zero Warfare so much that I bought a used SWFFB2, a 20 year old device that I found for a throwaway price on Amazon. This set aside the VKB EVO which I liked very much. My big mistake, although the VKB is great on a force-less stick if you replace the springs with the weakest included and moderate the damper.

If you use the SWFFB2 on the MiG-21, if you cover the sensor on the grip and let go and let the force function, you can press the start button and the increase in RPM will cause the sideways stick to rise up vertically. The pitch trim also changes the center angle of the SW stick.

The stickshaker does not function on the DCSW MiG-21. This seems to be different for each aircraft. It is said that an aircraft with a large wing retract angle, such as a delta wing, may have excellent stall characteristics, but when the limit is exceeded, the aircraft suddenly loses control. Maybe the actual aircraft does not have stickshaker either.

[rossmum]

It doesn't have a shaker, no. The MiG-23 has a kicker or knuckle rapper (I forget which, or it changed during development) and the 29 has a stick kicker as well. 21 has nothing except whatever buffet you can feel through the airframe, and then the SUA warning lights and UUA gauge.

[JAPman]

Thanks, I'm not familiar with it.

When the aircraft is close to stalling, it would be nice to have some vibration. It is disappointing when the aircraft loses control and becomes festive, but the stick is silent. It would be nice to have a better feel for the pull of the stick on takeoff, or a heavier pull as the speed increases.

Is it the FC3 Su-27 that the FFB does a serious job with the ASC and shaker combination?

I am using the X56 throttle block and assigning RightAlt and LeftAlt to the buttons, combined with the SW DX buttons in the DCSW setup, has solved the lack of buttons on the SW.

[rossmum]

There are some perculiarities to the 21 to bring up here: according to the flight manual, below 5000m and speeds of M 0.4, the aircraft does not develop any prestall buffet at all and will progress straight to wing rocking. Conversely it will enter buffet far before any risk of stalling at higher speeds. You end up with a situation where you get no real warning where you really need one, and then a premature warning that can prevent less experienced pilots from attaining maximum performance for fear of a stall that won't happen. The former is probably exactly why the SUA-1 warning lights were added where they are, to make sure you're aware of how close you're getting.

[JAPman]

I was mildly shocked when the F-15 did not respond to FFB at all. The Eagle was a bonus aircraft when the Flanker 2.0 transitioned to LockOn.

There were two FFB2s in the auction for less than $36. I wanted a second one.

Edited August 14, 2022 by JAPman