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An open letter to the ED team


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Dear Eagle Dynamics team

 

I’d like to begin by saying what an incredible flight simulator you have created, and I hope you all feel rightfully proud of yourselves for having produced such a detailed and beautiful piece of software covering both modern and WW2 aviation as well as a mission editor that allows the community to create some wonderful scenarios and campaigns. So a big thank you Eagle Dynamics for all of the above and the many hundreds of hours of hard work that have gone into giving us DCS World. You should all be very proud of your achievements and it does feel like you have a grand vision of what this sim will be one day.

 

I myself loved flight sims when I was younger and dreamed of becoming a pilot in the RAF. Growing up in the 90’s I was playing the Janes series of flight sims, Falcon 3.0 (and latter 4.0) Battle of Britain, ms combat simulator 2, even the F16 sim on the ZX spectrum (was it called f16 combat pilot?) but as I got older I stopped playing flight sims. Then along comes the Oculus Rift and I still remember the day I had an epiphany:

“Holy s**t, that would be amazing in a flight sim!”

So the Rift was purchased on day one along with DCS A10C and so began my return to playing flight sims and since that day I rarely play anything else (to be honest I rarely play anything at all these days having to small children) and since that day I have invested a fair chunk of money in and specifically for DCS (modules, maps, and PC hardware TMWH HOTAS and 2 VR headsets.)

 

And so we come to the point of this rather long winded post, we all know that the ob 2.6.5 has run into a few performance issues and so I went over to stable for the first time. And though frame rates are better in 2.5, in-order to play any mission with more than a handful of units and a few clouds I’m having to lower my graphics settings to the point the game just doesn’t look nice enough to enjoy.

(Just for reference I’m flying the Spitfire on the Normandy map.)

For me part of the allure of flight in general is the beautiful vistas, the other part is blowing stuff up hence not being very interested in the other non combat flight sims available.

 

What has brought me to put fingers to keyboard and write to you is a recent comment by a member of your team, and please forgive me paraphrasing here,

but it was along the lines of “as we add more graphical improvements you can expect the game to become more demanding on your system.” Now this of course seems logical enough, it’s just that my system (8700k @ 4.8ghz 1080ti 32gb ddr4 RAM and DCS on its own ssd with a Rift S) is only just about able to cope with DCS as it is in stable 2.5, any increase in system demands and its game over for me.

I’ve posted my graphics settings in another thread on the Spitfire sub forum but let’s just say I’ve been tempering my expectations and am certainly not trying to run a pd of 2 with all the graphics turned up (1.3 with pretty much everything low or off and medium view distance in-fact.)

 

I’m beginning to feel like I’m getting priced out of this fantastic, dream come true, flight simulator. I know that being a VR user I’m in a niche within a niche and therefore must adjust my expectations but it still makes me sad. I’m very excited for the release of the channel map (having lived on the south coast of England all my life it’s so great to be flying over places I know) and the upcoming mosquito and p47 (really the mosquito though being a Brit, and the p47 looks like a bit of a lump, though I’d be happy to be proved wrong) and up until now I would have been purchasing them all on day one of release but not now I’m sad to say. The reason being I’m not sure I’ll I would be able to use them in a years time without spending another £1500 upgrading my computer which I simply can’t afford to do. I’m struggling on the Normandy map with the Spit.

 

Of course we always have choices in what we do with our lives and in this instance mine seem to be either leave DCS and try the other ww2 sim which we cannot name or give up on flight sims altogether. I suppose Track ir is an option too but that would require a new monitor and I’m not sure how much I’d like it after VR. I don’t really want to do any of these things unless I’m left with no other option, but if DCS continues to require more and more PC horse power it looks like the dream may be over for me.

 

Finally I just want to add that I’m in no way trying to imply that if you don’t fix this you won’t see anymore of my money or that I’ll go and play a competitors game instead, or for that matter that you owe me anything at all really. It’s clear you have a grand vision for what DCS World can become and your work thus far has been mind blowing and enabled thousands of people to experience something we could have only dreamed of as children.

It’s just that to know that something as great as this exists but you are unable to enjoy as the cost of entry is too high (and I mean HIGH) makes me really quite sad.

 

Kind regards and keep up the good work

Simon

 

Ps I hope you are all staying safe and well in these testing times.

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Thanks for he suggestion MAXsenna, I haven’t but also I haven’t updated to the latest driver as I heard it was a bit iffy. I don’t think there is much else I can do at this point.

 

But the point of that massive wall of text was mainly to let ED know how much I love there work and how it would be such a shame (for me at least) if I couldn’t enjoy it. I feel like they are taking a bit of a clobbering at the moment and I’m hoping beyond hope that things will one day be better for all of us

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I bought just about as high end equipment as the layperson can. I have terrible performance issues and although not pathetic, had to compromise in 2.5.5 as well.

This isn’t a socioeconomic thing here fellas. I would buy a 30xx tomorrow if it would run the dang thing but it was my choice to opt for VR.

What do people want? Do you want the underlying game to run? Do you want new modules? Do you want every single feature of a module to work exactly as it should? Do you insist that every bolt is scale correct and that “on the exterior view when I add bombs the landing gear need to squat more in the caucuses at dusk flying out of airport x, fix it or ill quit”

The developers seem to be a small group and they are in a very niche market. What they have accomplished from the days of “pong” is really quite amazing. That said, folks get on here day after day after day, demand more and more. Some expectations realistic, some frankly just silly.

Maybe, just maybe if folks would just let them do what they need to do, without pushing them for new “eye candy”(hate that term)new modules, daily updates and just plain anal tweaks they might one day make everyone happy! When is the last time Ford or Volkswagen sent you an email about the progress they are making on fuel cell technology??

As pointed out to me very recently (thank you!) EA is for reporting bugs. However, it is not a license to demand, bitch, moan and constantly threaten the developers that you are going to take your ball and leave ( not the stance of the OP btw, just a reoccurring theme).

Not a programer, but my guess is that if they new how to make it run faster for everyone (it seems to run great for some they would. Perhaps they do but can only put one programer on it because of the other demands placed on them? I don’t know either but trust me( or don’t). When they figure out how to do it, they will. How much more communication does anybody need?

Stay safe


Edited by Mr. Big.”Biggs”

I9 (5Ghz turbo)2080ti 64Gb 3200 ram. 3 drives. A sata 2tb storage and 2 M.2 drives. 1 is 1tb, 1 is 500gb.

Valve Index, Virpil t50 cm2 stick, t50 base and v3 throttle w mini stick. MFG crosswind pedals.

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Runs great on my system dude.... only issue i see is the pathfinding fps crusher that we found on last patch, other than that running high settings and enjoying life in dcs with the wonderful new lighting. :thumbup:

Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

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as I heard it was a bit iffy

 

That's what they say, but deleting all user-space shaders (fxo etc.), patching DCS and updating the driver to 445.75 actually gave me a marked performance boost. So why not just try it regardless, because you can always roll back?

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Everyone purchasing to VR is doing a disservice for themselves, as it is a swap that will swallow your money slowly as it requires better and better hardware.

 

Flying DCS with just a display is easily possible to get with high performance and great graphics. Totally nothing as immersive as in VR, but oh boy is it cheap....

 

So if someone has tasted VR, and goes that route, then it is their fault for everything.

All we can do is wait and hope that Vulcan from AMD would solve lots of the performance limitations...

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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Thanks for he suggestion MAXsenna, I haven’t but also I haven’t updated to the latest driver as I heard it was a bit iffy. I don’t think there is much else I can do at this point.

 

But the point of that massive wall of text was mainly to let ED know how much I love there work and how it would be such a shame (for me at least) if I couldn’t enjoy it. I feel like they are taking a bit of a clobbering at the moment and I’m hoping beyond hope that things will one day be better for all of us

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

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Moved oops, sorry for putting it in the wrong place, I guess in my head it was as much a heartfelt thank you to ED as it was performance issues. But in hindsight I see why it was moved.

 

Fri13 you’re right, and I’m currently eyeing up 1440p monitors. I just don’t know if I’ll like the strange head movement of track ir. Also it will burn through the money I had put aside for a 30 series nvidia gfx card. But it may be the way to go after all.

 

My concerns were more based around if they keep adding all this cool stuff it’s going to require me to spend money I don’t have.

As an example the new damage modelling looks absolutely fantastic, but I can’t see how it can be implemented without another hit on performance. And I can’t take another hit.

 

Also Enduro14 I think flying the WW2 planes and that type of dogfighting makes maintaining 80fps far more important than in a jet as seeing double vision when a bandit flies past really breaks the immersion and makes identifying said bandit much harder. The f18 on the PG map is a lot more forgiving. But I’m glad all is well at your end, happy flying :)

 

Anyway this wasn’t meant to come across as me moaning on about how unfair it is that I can’t play the game as I would like to and more of an outpouring of emotion if you will (8 weeks in lockdown with young children will do that to man ;) ) and some concerns about where we will be in say a years time.

Apologies if it sounded like I was moaning and being self important, I really didn’t want that.

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Yes indeed this is my concern as I feel the same way about DCS. This is why when I heard they were doing these free trials and sales right now I had to scratch my head. I am not complaining about these sales or trials, I just frankly would think this is the WORSE time for people to try DCS. I mean, I specifically tried DCS to see if I could actually PLAY it before I invested in it.

 

The fact that DCS VR WORKED for my new system was what brought me over from a different sim!!! AGAIN the PERFORMANCE was the deal sealer.

 

It wasn't the lighting effects, nor the graphics, nor anything other than the fact that it played FOR ME acceptably!

 

If I was a potential new DCS customer, I would hop on the thing, see the FPS nightmare, the crackling audio and assume it was MY SYSTEM.

 

This would cause me to move on to another sim. I would figure it was a sim too rich for my blood and come back IN FEW YEARS when I bought a new system. All the while never knowing this was actually a version problem and DCS would have worked fine under a differerent version.

 

Now before you say this is just my way of doing things, I have already seen a few people be scared away from DCS in the last few weeks. Sadly I was hoping to recruit them...

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Moved oops, sorry for putting it in the wrong place, I guess in my head it was as much a heartfelt thank you to ED as it was performance issues. But in hindsight I see why it was moved.

 

Fri13 you’re right, and I’m currently eyeing up 1440p monitors. I just don’t know if I’ll like the strange head movement of track ir. Also it will burn through the money I had put aside for a 30 series nvidia gfx card. But it may be the way to go after all.

 

My concerns were more based around if they keep adding all this cool stuff it’s going to require me to spend money I don’t have.

As an example the new damage modelling looks absolutely fantastic, but I can’t see how it can be implemented without another hit on performance. And I can’t take another hit.

 

Also Enduro14 I think flying the WW2 planes and that type of dogfighting makes maintaining 80fps far more important than in a jet as seeing double vision when a bandit flies past really breaks the immersion and makes identifying said bandit much harder. The f18 on the PG map is a lot more forgiving. But I’m glad all is well at your end, happy flying :)

 

Anyway this wasn’t meant to come across as me moaning on about how unfair it is that I can’t play the game as I would like to and more of an outpouring of emotion if you will (8 weeks in lockdown with young children will do that to man ;) ) and some concerns about where we will be in say a years time.

Apologies if it sounded like I was moaning and being self important, I really didn’t want that.

You're in the UK. Try the Delan Clip for TrackIR. It will only set you back 20 quid or so if I remember correctly. Or just build it yourself.

Back in the 90s when TrackIR came along, I already had VR and couldn't possibly imagine me looking sideways on a screen. But it's nothing like that at all. It will not be VR, but I believe you will be pleasantly surprised. I seriously regret I didn't go along they route before.

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

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Agree with much of this thread . I think 2.53 was the last version that ran well on my system . I am building a new pc , but am leery of how well it will run as well . Sacrificing performance so we can see torpedo's dropped by AI JU-88's ? (Per Kate) It seems to me the sim is collapsing under it's own weight , spreading itself too thin and adding tons of features on an ancient engine .

 

We can have the high-fidelity flightsim with unrivalled aerodynamics and systems modelling that DCS once was , or we can have a somewhat better version of a combined arms simulator (un-named in this post) , but we absolutely cannot have both with the existing engine and expect reasonable performance . And it will likely be years before Vulkan and multi-threading give us an engine that can .


Edited by Svsmokey

9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2

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Well, VR guys seem to have it bad. But a sizable contingent of us flatscreen cavemen have it good, and I'm amongst them. Installed the latest NVidia driver, updated DCS, deleted all user-side shaders (fxo etc.) and the sim just BLAZES away now. Colour me surprised and impressed both!

 

And before another wisecrack jumps in: yes, works with AI units as well, not just freeflight.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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