Thank you for the new FM

[Brigg]

Yeah took it up a couple of times over the weekend and the FM is a hell of a lot better. One thing I'm not sure with is was it really that bouncy on takeoff

[rossmum]

There's an issue with the nosewheel clipping into the ground and shimmying, which they're aware of, but it does feel like the longitudinal bounce on takeoff has turned into a lateral one. It's more pronounced if you try and rotate a little early, I've noticed.

[Brigg]

There's an issue with the nosewheel clipping into the ground and shimmying, which they're aware of, but it does feel like the longitudinal bounce on takeoff has turned into a lateral one. It's more pronounced if you try and rotate a little early, I've noticed.

 

Ah ok got ya. i had been awhile since ive flew the vodka rocket and did know if it was me. :lol:

[Dr_Arrow]

Yes, unfortunately it is still quite unstable on take-off laterally (left right rocking), longitudinal control is somewhat improved but it is still very difficult to keep the nose stable during take-off at some 10-12 degrees and lateral oscillations make it only worse. But otherwise the new FM is a very good step forward.

[Mikaa]

I did some playing around with intentional departures in it, and it seems that there’s very little rudder authority, to the point where I’m having a hard time getting it to spin. This could entirely be the case in the real aircraft, but I wonder if the rudder authority needs to be tweaked at higher alphas.

[Shmal]

Thank's to developers one more time for last update!

Taking off now is great and it's tuned!

Landing is perfect!

I finally did my old wish - touch and go the runaway without drop the nose down! Here is the video:

 

Couple days before i had opportunity to ask a real MiG-21 pilot quite thoroughly about taxing, rise the nose up while taking off, landing and the answers satisfied me!

We have pretty accurate flight model in DCS now!

I've never been flying jet, but when i was listening his explanations i was exactly understanding everithing and even more! I understood that our MiG-21 flight-model was made by pilot! Because only pilot could try to simulate some destinctive features!

Of course there are some staff still needs to tuned but any way!

Now the general, whole result is very good!

 

So, one more exact thing i'd like to see its correct work of the SPS. Now i do not see the difference with SPS or without! But the difference has to be at least 20 km/h while landing!

And the pilot told me about special effect of MiG-21 with SPS!

He called it "effect of the spoon". It shows from 10 to 5 meters on approaching exact before leveling and holding! The craft is taking some force some ground effect which pushing it up and the pilot has to give the stick forward short time to compensate it!

The reason of it he described to me like the flows from SPS are improving the effectiveness of stabilisators at this speed and these shows exactly with these conditions!

Edited July 9, 2020 by Shmal

[CoBlue]

I find the 21 very draggy during approach now in land.config I need almost 100% RPM, compered to 83-87% RPM as it was before & per 21bis manual.

[jojyrocks]

Number one hardest plane in DCS to do an aerobrake landing (2nd F-14 and 3rd being the F-5). Before the 2020 updates. I was able to at least hold the nose-up slightly. Now, as soon as the main gear touches, the nose comes down hard with a violent sideways wobble. And down the runway...it wobbles up and down motion.

 

 

The landing physics certainly need some more tuning.

 

 

There are vids of Romanian Mig 21 managing to do aerobrake landing even with wing tanks.

 

 

Also vids of Iranian F-14 managing to do aerobraked landing with full flaps and spoilers.

[Fri13]

The biggest problem with the canopy is that everything else in DCS is pristine, which is also kinda iffy as you collect so many bug guts in flight and the things go like concrete almost immediately. I don't think I've ever seen footage from a fighter cockpit where there wasn't at least one good-size smear on the windscreen. In an ideal world it'd start spotless and occasionally collect some crap over the course of a sortie, based on time in the air and altitude, but I think I'm dreaming with that one. New cockpit should probably fix it anyway and if all else fails, there are some nice clean canopy mods.

 

IMHO

 

DCS modules should come from the studio in 2-3 different weathering.

 

1) Factory built. This should be standard. So no weathering, just great cockpit textures, labels etc.

This can be used to simulate the aircraft in the first few years.

 

2) After few years of operational use after service. This should be requirement as texture artist to weather the aircraft so cockpit looks like it has some wear and tear, some dust and scratches here and there as expected. Nothing major but right away one sees it is in use.

 

3) Art Free. This is optional one, where weathering can be done like aircraft is a museum piece, never seen a ground crew maintenance team, dust collector middle of the sandstorm, low quality paint used that chips away as you just look at it and every person near aircraft wants to smear the canopy with their oil creased fingers just to ****** with the pilot.

 

The two first should be included with mod. So one can fly anything from service year 1 to 10-15 or so. And then if someone has something that is from 30 years in museum, they can enjoy from it too.

 

And not until we get a working windshield vipers (for the helicopters and ground vehicles) we shouldn't get any bug markings on canopy, as we need a modeling of the air and water across the canopy and as well mechanical wipers to clean them.

[rossmum]

That would blow out filesize and loading times severely, I don't think we'll ever see that (and to be honest, I'm not sure I want to). Bugs accruing on the canopy from longer low-level flights is really the limit of what I'd ask, and that requires a bunch of coding the game doesn't include so I doubt we'll see it.

 

I just use custom cockpit liveries if I want one that's newer or more weathered than what comes with the aircraft, honestly.

[Fri13]

That would blow out filesize and loading times severely,

 

And how you know that? It wouldn't be a 100 + MB addition to filesize of +1 second to loading times.

 

I just use custom cockpit liveries if I want one that's newer or more weathered than what comes with the aircraft, honestly.

 

The customer shouldn't be required to go custom liveries to get a cockpit that is realistic, meaning it is not a outdoor museum piece flying from 2014 (when it got released in DCS) in missions from 70's and 80's.

 

If some customers want something more special, it should be more weathered cockpits or some other colors etc than getting the cockpits fixed to look even partially realistic in their new conditions for the era when these were flying.

We can't expect that all missions are made for the year the module gets released or at today missions.

[riojax]

Wow M3, The MiG-21 FM is now a lot better! You nailed the CLmax graph and the stall point. Congrats.

Edit: Also I want to say you that the current MiG-21 FM is probably the best on all DCS modules.

Edited June 9, 2020 by riojax

[Hiromachi]

I find the 21 very draggy during approach now in land.config I need almost 100% RPM, compered to 83-87% RPM as it was before & per 21bis manual.

I had absolutely no issue landing with 85 - 87 % RPM with an aircraft clean with 2900 l of fuel on board (so even in some overweight condition). I even took off, made a circle around the field and landed again. More thrust however is desired to keep lower descent rate, but not necessary as I could land it at 300 - 290 km/h.

 

Number one hardest plane in DCS to do an aerobrake landing (2nd F-14 and 3rd being the F-5). Before the 2020 updates. I was able to at least hold the nose-up slightly. Now, as soon as the main gear touches, the nose comes down hard with a violent sideways wobble. And down the runway...it wobbles up and down motion.

The suspension definitely needs tuning and its being tuned however I could do aerobraking, it is just hard as requires VERY FINE stick movements and catching it just there so it keeps nose gear lifted but doesnt take-off again. I could keep it in that situation from touchdown to about 240 km/h. So its possible but just hard.

[jojyrocks]

The suspension definitely needs tuning and its being tuned however I could do aerobraking, it is just hard as requires VERY FINE stick movements and catching it just there so it keeps nose gear lifted but doesn't take-off again. I could keep it in that situation from touchdown to about 240 km/h. So its possible but just hard.

 

 

Yes, its VERY difficult. But doable, especially when the fuel is near empty and you hold that sweetspot AoA plus the watch the sink rate and keep it low as possible, gliding down, with marginal engine power.

 

 

But...still, its the most difficult of ALL DCS planes barring the F-18 on full flaps landing and clean load.

 

 

 

I wonder how those RL pilots land with wingtanks and 2X Heaters and stilll manage to aerobrake. There are airshow vids of Mig 21 with wing tanks doing aerobraking landing.

[Hiromachi]

For one they have actual control column longer than your joystick and with greater deflection range which combined with actual stick forces allows for much finer control than any PC joystick.

[Airhunter]

I find the 21 very draggy during approach now in land.config I need almost 100% RPM, compered to 83-87% RPM as it was before & per 21bis manual.

 

I second that, that was the first thing I noticed as well at moderate landing weights. The usual pitch and power values from the flight manuals can't really be applied currently.

[Hiromachi]

I cant confirm that. I've made 3 consecutive trials landing that thing at Batumi (landing weight as specified 7200 kg (Manual indicates landing weight between 6800 kg to 7300 kg) which corresponds to 38 % of the fuel.

 

I started some 10 km from the runway with initial speed around 550 km/h. Dropped to 450 km/h and started lowering my gear. I could keep 5 m/s descend at 350 -360 km/h (RPM at 85 - 88 %, did a bit play with it) with UUA indicating 9 - 10 deg (which is as in the manual). I overshot the runway entry a bit, might've started decelerating too late but landed at 1/3 of it and prior to touchdown flared it just a bit to touch at some 300 km/h.

[jojyrocks]

For one they have actual control column longer than your joystick and with greater deflection range which combined with actual stick forces allows for much finer control than any PC joystick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Still, the main gear feels gummy as hell...and needs tuning. It wobbles down the runway bobbing up and down (even in near empty fuel) even when all the gear touched making some strange noise, as if I belly landed. Its like the gear is going to breakdown any moment.

 

 

 

I was able to land the plane on medium load and managed a very short lucky aerobrake. The only diff is, you come in a bit faster.

 

 

Out of all the planes, this planes landing physics and behavior needs re-tuning.

 

 

 

 

 

The current build seems to have messed up the suspensions and made it even worse.

[rossmum]

even when all the gear touched making some strange noise, as if I belly landed.

 

That would probably have been the nosewheel rim scraping on the runway. The nosewheel currently clips through the ground a bit, it's a known issue, and it will cause scraping sounds and shimmy at certain speeds.

 

As for landing behaviour - I do everything by the seat of my pants so I can't confirm changes against the numbers in the manual, but I haven't noticed a change in feel at all. It's still pretty much exactly as it has been for me, the only time I need to run the throttle past about 85% is if I come in way too flat and need a little extra juice to get over the threshold.

Edited June 10, 2020 by rossmum

[Argo Navis]

I really like the new FM. Great work Hiromachi! Congrats!

Flying this aircraft around is becoming a sexual experience.

[Kvasok]

Hi everyone, I did not fly for a moment 21 long. I really like the changes. Tell me, is such a sharp reaction of the trimmer normal?

[Dr_Arrow]

Thanks M3 for the new flight model, for me it feels normal during landing, it is a bit easier to aerobrake than in the past (but it is still quite hard).

[Lovcar]

aerobrake? What do you mean by this word?

[Hiromachi]

He means using the aircrafts body as huge brake.

[Lovcar]

Potipu figures of the cobra Pugachev? Why duck? MiG21 does not fulfill this element. And then, there are air brakes)