Help with F18 and TGP/JDAMs in TOO Mode

[Phantom453]

I have now tried this and got it working. Your issue probably is pickling too quickly, you have to pickle one off the dual rack, then switch to the other TOO target (1 or 2) then pickle. This is the same in TOO and PP with dual racks for me. If you don't change between TOO1 and TOO2 it will drop both weapons (from the dual rack) on one set of co-ordinates. I have done this so many times, even when trying not to as I think it auto steps through the stations which confused me. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't fully realistic yet as it seems the margin for error is a bit high. My method now is to make sure all stations are set to TOO1 (after un-designating!) Pickle all double rack station's TOO1 then work through TOO2s by manually changing on the DDI. Keep a note of the station numbers as you work through them. This also has the benefit of keeping the aircraft more balanced as all that weight falls off.

 

Thanks to Pike and others for helping me out with this originally

 

Finally!! That seems to be it. The last piece in the jigsaw. :thumbup:

 

Thank you Hoirtel and to all the other contributors in this thread who provided advice. Greatly appreciated.

 

I'm not an F/A-18 pilot, but I doubt that level of control or procedure is required IRL to get 8 JDAMs off the racks and onto 8 separate targets (unrealistic scenario I know). I suspect the code still needs a bit of tidy up in this regard to get it working correctly.

 

Once again thanks to all who helped.

[LTRMcrew]

So to clarify as my head is now swirling with numbers; you would have to do TWO passes currently? You can only assign a "rack" to a target? i.e. the rack can only retain one target position.

[Pike]

So to clarify as my head is now swirling with numbers; you would have to do TWO passes currently? You can only assign a "rack" to a target? i.e. the rack can only retain one target position.

 

 

Nope. You can drop all 8 in one pass.

 

 

You program two coordinates per station. When you have multiple stations, the system drops one jdam from each statiom to maintaim balance. So if you have 8 jdams, and drop 4, you will be left with 1 jdam on each station.

 

 

Each one of those dropped jdams referenced either TOO1 or TOO2, depending on which one was selected at time of release. Assume TOO1 was selected.

 

 

That would mean when you drop the next 4, you need to press TOO2 for each station prior to release. Otherwise, you feed the coordinate from TOO1 to the second bomb, resulting in two bombs to one target.

 

 

With practice, this will barely slow you down. So you can drop all 8 in well less than 8 seconds. Probably like 5. Ive never counted, lol.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Pike

[zildac]

This technique works a treat on the latest Open Beta 2.5.6.47404. But as mentioned you have to ensure you switch to TOO2 on all staions for the next drop otherwise you'll drop on the same target. Also the undesignate after the last TGP acquire is key before you use the STEP button. Not sure if it's "real" but it would be great if it was intelligent enough to drop on TOO1 for all stations then switch to TOO2 to avoid having to manually select.

[Topgun505]

I tried this earlier this evening and must be doing something wrong. I got all 8 designated. Then I hit undesignate. No weapons would leave the rails no matter what I did. What would be going on there? Master arm on, AG mode, efuz was set. Had the In RNG message. Pickle .... and nothing.

 

I too can not get this to work with two JDAMs on the same station in TOO mode, no matter what I try.

 

I can get four JDAM (one on each station) to hit four different targets, but every time I try with 8 JDAM I end up putting two JDAM on the same target and only hitting a total of four targets with 8 JDAM. the process I'm using is:

 

Allign JDAM

Ensure all stations in TOO mode

designate TGT 1 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 2

Step

designate TGT 3 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 4

step

designate TGT 5 in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 6

step

designate TGT 7 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 8

Undesignate

pickle JDAMS when in range.

 

Even if I just use four JDAM on two stations I still end up hitting only two targets.

 

I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Any help would be appreciated.

[Phantom453]

I tried this earlier this evening and must be doing something wrong. I got all 8 designated. Then I hit undesignate. No weapons would leave the rails no matter what I did. What would be going on there? Master arm on, AG mode, efuz was set. Had the In RNG message. Pickle .... and nothing.

 

Was this pass after a rearm on the ground? I've had it go a bit "wonky" after rearming on the ground and then not releasing the newly loaded weapons. I think I may have selected the Stores page during the rearm process. Not sure if this cased an error somehow?

 

Other than that, you seem to have all your ducks in a row ready for release.

 

However, before your pickle, ensure you Step to each station and ensure each one is set to TOO 1. Then when in range pickle TOO 1 for each station. Then Step again and make sure all stations are now set for TOO 2. Pickle from each station in turn again (when in range). Otherwise you'll probably drop two JDAMs on the same target.

[Pike]

Did you have auto selected? Was there a vertical lone through your HUD? If you had that selected and was treating it like manual they wont drop happened to me yesterday.

[GumidekCZ]

Hi guys,

does this method works for you even now after latest OB?

• For me, old TGP not overwriting coordinates in JDAM when slewing around, Undesignate button will erase coordinates from JDAM MSN page.
• FLIR is able to overwrite coordinates in JDAM, same as for TGP, Undesignate button will also erase coordinates from JDAM MSN page.

[Recluse]

This is current behavior. Probably a bug.

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

Probably correct and its in preparation for multi target qrm mode

[Limaro]

1 hour ago, IkarusC42B Pilot said:

Probably correct and its in preparation for multi target qrm mode

I am asking myself what kind of "preparation" it sould be to implement a function, that when undesignating target with TGP also erases the coordinates from JDAM. In case this is happening in real, ok - case Else: this is a very annoying an dramatic bad bug. It makes good attacks now impossible, if you cannot orbit and configure the targets.

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

8 hours ago, Limaro said:

I am asking myself what kind of "preparation" it sould be to implement a function, that when undesignating target with TGP also erases the coordinates from JDAM. In case this is happening in real, ok - case Else: this is a very annoying an dramatic bad bug. It makes good attacks now impossible, if you cannot orbit and configure the targets.

What do you think its supposed to happen if you press undesignate? Irl you just press tdc over targets then it shows in zone for all the bombs you want to release

[Recluse]

Previously, right or wrong, you could populate each station. Pressing UNDESIGNATE would remove the current designation, but leave the stations already populated in the JDAM. This seemed to make sense, when a station with 2 GBU's had a TOO1 and TOO2.  If DESIGNATING populates the JDAM coordinates and UNDESIGNATE removes the designation completely from all JDAM, then what possible use is it to have a TOO1 and TOO2???

 

The Workaround is to use MarkPoints to recall the coordinates for each bomb,  but If it is ONE bomb at a time based on Designated target then the TOO1 and TOO2 options are useless.  Maybe they don't exist in real life and it it has been wrong all along? I think we are all just looking for Clarity on whether the change was INTENDED or not.

[Limaro]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:24 PM, Recluse said:

Previously, right or wrong, you could populate each station. Pressing UNDESIGNATE would remove the current designation, but leave the stations already populated in the JDAM. This seemed to make sense, when a station with 2 GBU's had a TOO1 and TOO2.  If DESIGNATING populates the JDAM coordinates and UNDESIGNATE removes the designation completely from all JDAM, then what possible use is it to have a TOO1 and TOO2???

 

The Workaround is to use MarkPoints to recall the coordinates for each bomb,  but If it is ONE bomb at a time based on Designated target then the TOO1 and TOO2 options are useless.  Maybe they don't exist in real life and it it has been wrong all along? I think we are all just looking for Clarity on whether the change was INTENDED or not.

Right, that may work. but I am getting tired to get used to one way, then with the next patch, it changes again. Hard life with pre-release.

However, there was a bug reported, but it hats been locked for further submits and it still on "reported"

 

  

On 6/13/2021 at 4:50 PM, Recluse said:

This is current behavior. Probably a bug.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Limaro

[Hoirtel]

From what I have learned, the undesignated function dropping all co-ords is realistic and to save points from TGP as markpoints is the more realistic way of doing this type of task. Yes it seems a more impractical method of rippling 4 or 8 JDAMs but it would seem that doing this from an F18 is itself pretty unrealistic and if such a task was ever required then another platform would carry this out (B1? B52? etc etc) JDAMs on hornets are mostly used in much lower numbers in either PP or TOO mode. It can do a big ripple, but the system isn't actually designed for it.. 

[Recluse]

9 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

From what I have learned, the undesignated function dropping all co-ords is realistic and to save points from TGP as markpoints is the more realistic way of doing this type of task. Yes it seems a more impractical method of rippling 4 or 8 JDAMs but it would seem that doing this from an F18 is itself pretty unrealistic and if such a task was ever required then another platform would carry this out (B1? B52? etc etc) JDAMs on hornets are mostly used in much lower numbers in either PP or TOO mode. It can do a big ripple, but the system isn't actually designed for it.. 

Then Why on Earth are there TOO1 and TOO2 options when multiple JDAM are carried on a station if you cannot use them as separate targets??  Or is this wrong as well?

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Recluse

[Hoirtel]

43 minutes ago, Recluse said:

Then Why on Earth are there TOO1 and TOO2 options when multiple JDAM are carried on a station if you cannot use them as separate targets??  Or is this wrong as well?

 

 

Yeah you can use them as seperate targets. Just don't undesignate. I haven't tried the too rippling in a while but there have been a couple of YT vids showing this with slewing to the targets then select next TOO, step and so on. The undesignate seems to be a clear all function which I guess for targets of opportunity makes sense I suppose.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Hoirtel

[Recluse]

I don't think you can currently use them for separate targets as the coordinates will be overwritten without the ability to UNDESIGNATE.

 

Select TOO1:  Designate

Select TOO2: Designate

 

Now there are different coordinates for each TOO.

 

If you cycle back to T001 to drop, the TOO2 coordinates will over-write what was there.

 

The videos you have seen are probably OLD.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Recluse

[Foka]

4 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

Yeah you can use them as seperate targets. Just don't undesignate. I haven't tried the too rippling in a while but there have been a couple of YT vids showing this with slewing to the targets then select next TOO, step and so on. The undesignate seems to be a clear all function which I guess for targets of opportunity makes sense I suppose.

 

These are old videos. If you won't undesignate stepping the rack or other TOO programm will automaticly overwrite target with the one currently pointed by TGP.

[Captain Orso]

Is this really what passes as WAD?

How can I SEE that a station/mission has for an assigned target?

Could someone please post a concise, step-for-step list of instructions on how to program each weapon on each station for each mission, using markpoints, so that for example I can select quantity 4/TOO1 pickle to drop the first four bombs on their four unique targets, then switch to TOO2 and drop the next four bombs on their four unique targets.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Captain Orso

[Tholozor]

The problem right now is that TOO missions are bugged. The coordinates are being erased when the TGT designation is removed.

[Recluse]

32 minutes ago, Captain Orso said:

Is this really what passes as WAD?

How can I SEE that a station/mission has for an assigned target?

Could someone please post a concise, step-for-step list of instructions on how to program each weapon on each station for each mission, using markpoints, so that for example I can select quantity 4/TOO1 pickle to drop the first four bombs on their four unique targets, then switch to TOO2 and drop the next four bombs on their four unique targets.

 

Yeah, like Tholozor said, it is BUGGED.  You can't do what you describe now. Only solution is to create multiple markpoints  and feed them to the JDAM ONE BY ONE,  DESIGNATE MARKPOINT, DROP, INCREMENT, DESIGNATE, DROP INCREMENT DESIGNATE..etc..  Might as well keep everything at TOO1 because you can't feed two coordinates at a time or you will over-write.

I don't think any of us believe this is the way it should be, but that's the way it is.

[Captain Orso]

Many thanks for the replies!

I thought I was going insane; I've been trying to figure this out for so many hours. I saw this video DCS DEAD Demonstration - F/A-18C JDAM manual LOFT and was trying to follow his example; but it's a really bad video for learning *ugh* and even though it was from Jan 2021, it's already broken, and I have yet to see a word on it even been acknowledged as being broken. smh

EDIT:

To make the multi-target attack per pickle work, you simply need to use PP mode. You first make all the markpoints you need, Then you go into the J-82 page and program all the PP targets in:

Designate markpoint 1 [so you can read the lat/lon from the TGP page], enter lat/lon/elv into PP1/STA8, dgnt mp2, enter PP1/STA2, dgnt mp3, enter PP1/STA7, dgnt mp4, enter PP1/STA3, Qty: select all 4 stations.

Dgnt mp5, enter PP2/STA8, dgnt mp6, enter PP2/STA2, dgnt mp7, enter PP2/STA7, dgnt mp8, enter PP2/STA3, Qty: select all 4 stations.

Use MSI to coordinate your JDAM attacks, selecting PP1 or PP2 as required.

Caveat: entering the coordinates will take a long time, and is prone to mistakes

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Captain Orso

[IkarusC42B Pilot]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:48 AM, Captain Orso said:

 

To make the multi-target attack per pickle work

 

 

This isnt multi,this is single. Multi isnt implemented yet and by the looks of the last mini updates it might never be

[Captain Orso]

It is multiple targets. You program the JDAMs as if they were pre-planned (all targets must be located so that each JDAM can reach its target from the single launch point). Put 4 targets on TOO1 and set the weapons to release to STA2, STA3, STA7, and STA8, and when in range,  a single pressing of weapon release will release all four, and each of them will guide themselves to their own target.

I've done it multiple times.