Help with F18 and TGP/JDAMs in TOO Mode

[Hoirtel]

Not sure if it is a change or a bug/break but I can't store multiple co-ordinates onto JDAMs using the TGP. If JDAM in TOO mode, the TGP slaves to designated waypoint, TDC depress adds coordinates to the JDAM TOO page, then when I press PP mode to save coordinates, the TGP recages (loses target) and no coordinates are carried across. TGP does not slave to target waypoint when JDAMs are in PP mode and if I find it the hard way I cannot get the co-ordinates to save. Instead I have to designate each bomb and pickle individually. I can't see how this is real as for multiple targets close together you have to spend lots of time over the target area rather than grabbing all the details and dropping quickly in a single pass. Am I doing it wrong? Tried several times. Really can't figure it out.

[Tholozor]

Transferring coordinates from TOO to PP was discovered to be unrealistic behavior and removed. IIRC there is also a known bug with the TGP not slaving when a JDAM is selected in PP mode.

[Pike]

It works, and easier than with PP.

 

 

From TOO(1), TDC depress/designate target using the pod, then select TOO2, designate target, STEP, and repeat. When finished, undesignate target.

 

 

If you go to a previously programmed station prior to undesignating, it will replace the programmed target with the current selection.

 

 

Once you undesignate, you can freely bounce among the stations and see the saved coordinates.

 

 

 

This worked as of 2 days ago, which is the last time I tried.

[Voodooflies]

It works, and easier than with PP.

 

 

From TOO(1), TDC depress/designate target using the pod, then select TOO2, designate target, STEP, and repeat. When finished, undesignate target.

 

 

If you go to a previously programmed station prior to undesignating, it will replace the programmed target with the current selection.

 

 

Once you undesignate, you can freely bounce among the stations and see the saved coordinates.

 

 

 

This worked as of 2 days ago, which is the last time I tried.

 

Undesignating with a TGP makes the TGP uncage for some reason hence not allowing any TOO coordinates injections between stations. I'm not refering to the proper uncage/cage button, it's something different.

[Pike]

Did they do an update since Friday? If not, while you are correct that it cages the pod, you dont undesignate between stations and stepping has no negative impact. (At least not as of 2 days ago, I cant get on to verify myself, but you havent said anything that is "news" to me, it tracks as I expect.) You only undesignate after you have programmed the very last jdam, that way you dont write over a previous coordinate.

 

 

 

The only hickup "might" be if you stepped to a station that was PP. Just set them all to TOO first.

 

 

 

Once programmed and undesignated, pull up your HSI and it will give you the direction to the target coords of the current selected programmed target.

 

 

Follow as I lined out above. Progress linear, dont revisit stations until you undesignate. You will find that each TOO retained the programmed coords. I've done this over a dozen times in the last week eith 8 targets. Again, unless they updated since Friday. Also, speaking to Open Beta. Im new here, so that may be pertinent if its not "standard."

Edited April 14, 2020 by Pike

[Hoirtel]

Did they do an update since Friday? If not, while you are correct that it cages the pod, you dont undesignate between stations and stepping has no negative impact. (At least not as of 2 days ago, I cant get on to verify myself, but you havent said anything that is "news" to me, it tracks as I expect.) You only undesignate after you have programmed the very last jdam, that way you dont write over a previous coordinate.

 

 

 

The only hickup "might" be if you stepped to a station that was PP. Just set them all to TOO first.

 

 

 

Once programmed and undesignated, pull up your HSI and it will give you the direction to the target coords of the current selected programmed target.

 

 

Follow as I lined out above. Progress linear, dont revisit stations until you undesignate. You will find that each TOO retained the programmed coords. I've done this over a dozen times in the last week eith 8 targets. Again, unless they updated since Friday. Also, speaking to Open Beta. Im new here, so that may be pertinent if its not "standard."

 

Great, I will try that. My mistake may have been returning to check on the co-ordinates, finding that they were all the same, but actually over writing them. Did wonder if the pulling into PP mode was realistic or not. Seems like good way of doing it though, and easier than this. Maybe the real hornet is due an update!! :lol: I guess that care is needed when dropping them all (using double racks) to ensure both from the same rack are not dropped on same targets, as with PP's. Probably dropping all TOO1s before cycling back through for all TOO2s.

 

Thanks for all the help.

[Pike]

Good luck! It's fun. Once you get in the groove its pretty efficient, and with the capacity to see the target from 35-40 nm away, it's awesome locking it in under the protection of a friendly airspace if available.

[Notso]

Did they do an update since Friday? If not, while you are correct that it cages the pod, you dont undesignate between stations and stepping has no negative impact. (At least not as of 2 days ago, I cant get on to verify myself, but you havent said anything that is "news" to me, it tracks as I expect.) You only undesignate after you have programmed the very last jdam, that way you dont write over a previous coordinate.

 

 

 

The only hickup "might" be if you stepped to a station that was PP. Just set them all to TOO first.

 

 

 

Once programmed and undesignated, pull up your HSI and it will give you the direction to the target coords of the current selected programmed target.

 

 

Follow as I lined out above. Progress linear, dont revisit stations until you undesignate. You will find that each TOO retained the programmed coords. I've done this over a dozen times in the last week eith 8 targets. Again, unless they updated since Friday. Also, speaking to Open Beta. Im new here, so that may be pertinent if its not "standard."

 

Thanks, I've been wondering how to do that as well. I'll try this technique later today. I need to get some more practice on the JDAM/JSOW mission flow.

 

So if I understand you correctly - you can use the TGP to put in different coords for each weapons station by using the STEP function and TDC designate and then stepping to the next station and designating a new TGT and so on? And then once that is done, you undesignate with the pod before stepping back to any previous station? Is that correct?

 

And finally after doing the steps above - once you undesignate, is there anyway to get the TGP back on the target area so you can see the hits without screwing up the previous stored TOO coordinates?

[Pike]

Thats correct, can program all 8 JDAMs that way. Just be sure to do both TOOs before stepping if you are dropping two bombs from the station.

 

 

To get the TGP back on target without interfering with targets you have two main options. 1) Manually slew the pod back on target and do not press TDC depress/designate. 2) If using WPDSG, drop all bombs using HSI to get on target, then once all bombs are away, you can activate WPDSG to get the pod back on target. At that point it wont matter since you are no longer feeding information to the jdams.

 

 

I recommend option 2.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Pike

[Notso]

Thats correct, can program all 8 JDAMs that way. Just be sure to do both TOOs before stepping if you are dropping two bombs from the station.

 

 

To get the TGP back on target without interfering with targets you have two main options. 1) Manually slew the pod back on target and do not press TDC depress/designate. 2) If using WPDSG, drop all bombs using HSI to get on target, then once all bombs are away, you can activate WPDSG to get the pod back on target. At that point it wont matter since you are no longer feeding information to the jdams.

 

 

I recommend option 2.

 

Cool thanks!

[MisterKnife]

so is it wanted behavior that the TGP cages when you press undesignated?

[sAs 202]

Hello, I'm having a problem with dropping more than 2 jdams. It seems like all jdams go on TOO1 and TOO2 after following the instructions you mentioned.

[Tholozor]

Sounds like you used QTY. That should only be used for attacking the same target with multiple weapons.

[Notso]

Hello, I'm having a problem with dropping more than 2 jdams. It seems like all jdams go on TOO1 and TOO2 after following the instructions you mentioned.

 

I'm struggling at the moment with multiple TOO release on different DPIs on the same pass using the TGT pod. Been 50/50 so far. However, I set up a mission where the waypoints were precisely placed over 4 different bunkers using ME and using GBU-31(V)2s - I was able to pickle all four off in quick succession using WPDESG in TOO mode. Pickle, cycle waypoint, WPDSG, Pickle, cycle waypoint, etc...... Worked like a champ. 4x shacks in quick succession.

 

I am assuming it should work the same way with the TGP. Any tips from you aces out there on how to do multiple passes using the TGP in TOO mode?

[sAs 202]

Sounds like you used QTY. That should only be used for attacking the same target with multiple weapons.

 

Thank you very much, that's the issue. Really appreciated

[sAs 202]

It works, and easier than with PP.

 

 

From TOO(1), TDC depress/designate target using the pod, then select TOO2, designate target, STEP, and repeat. When finished, undesignate target.

 

 

If you go to a previously programmed station prior to undesignating, it will replace the programmed target with the current selection.

 

 

Once you undesignate, you can freely bounce among the stations and see the saved coordinates.

 

 

 

This worked as of 2 days ago, which is the last time I tried.

 

Follow this steps, it works perfectly. My problem was that I selected QTY as it was to be set before some update. Now you have STEP inside MSN page without selecting QTY.

[Notso]

It works, and easier than with PP.

 

 

From TOO(1), TDC depress/designate target using the pod, then select TOO2, designate target, STEP, and repeat. When finished, undesignate target.

 

 

If you go to a previously programmed station prior to undesignating, it will replace the programmed target with the current selection.

 

 

Once you undesignate, you can freely bounce among the stations and see the saved coordinates.

 

 

 

This worked as of 2 days ago, which is the last time I tried.

 

OK I feel like an idiot - but I'm just not understanding something about how the stores JDAM page works to TOO multiple targets into the weapons before release.

 

Here's the scenario - I've got 4 different JDAMs and 4 targets. I want to input a single set of target coords into each weapon and then pickle all 4 off in rapid succession once IN RANGE. How do I do this? I've tried following the advice above, but still not working. I definitely do not have quantity and multiple stations selected. I start on one station and designate with the TGP and it takes those coords no problem. But then when I step to the next station, it already has the other bomb's coordinates. If I then designate on the next target, that bomb and all the other stations then has the 2nd tgt coords. I can't seem to figure out how do get discrete coords into each weapon.

 

The only way I've been able to make this work is to designate the first target and then pickle, move the pod to the 2nd target, designate, pickle. Then move the TGP to the 3rd tgt, designate, pickle and so on. It's doable but you have to be quick before you min range the last bombs.

 

Maybe I'm just not understanding what TOO2 does??? Help please!

[AstonMartinDBS]

Maybe I'm just not understanding what TOO2 does??? Help please!

You need TOO2 only if you carry two bombs on one station (example: TOO1 @station 8 is for bomb #1 @station 8, TOO2 @station 8 is for bomb #2 @station 8 ).

 

If there is only one bomb on each station, just STEP from one to the next one.

 

But don't forget to press UNDESIGNATE after you've transferred the coordinates (by TDC DEPRESS) to the last station, otherwise the coordinates will be overwritten by stepping (manually or due to bomb release) through the stations.

Edited April 19, 2020 by AstonMartinDBS

[Notso]

You need TOO2 only if you carry two bombs on one station (example: TOO1 @station 8 is for bomb #1 @station 8, TOO2 @station 8 is for bomb #2 @station 8).

 

If there is only one bomb on each station, just STEP from one to the next one.

 

But don't forget to press UNDESIGNATE after you've transferred the coordinates (by TDC DEPRESS) to the last station, otherwise the coordinates will be overwritten by stepping (manually or due to bomb release) through the stations.

 

Ok, I understand the TOO2 now. But then that isn't what is causing the issue. I had 4xGBU-31s - all on individual stations obviously. In TOO mode, it lets me designate the first weapon with no problem, but as soon as I step to the next weapon on a different station, it already has that 1st weapons coordinates set. If I then designate on TGT#2, weapon #2 has that new info, but if I step to the next one, weapon #3 already has weapon #2s coords and so on. After I get done with weapon #4, I've undesignated the TGP and stepped back to weapon #1 and it has #4's coordinates in the MSN page. I'm pulling my hair out. I'll go back and try to experiment with it again. I'm sure it's user error but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

 

So if I understand correctly - you guys are saying I can load 4 different coordinates into 4 different bombs using the TGP in TOO mode while orbiting away from the target and then run in and release all 4 in rapid sequence without having to do anything else, correct?

[Tholozor]

While a TGT designation point exists, the active weapon station will update its TOO coordinates to the TGT position. So if you designate a point on Station 8 TOO1, and STEP to Station 2 TOO1, they will both match until you designate a new position. At that time, Station 8 TOO1 will still be on its original TGT position, and Station 2 TOO1 will be on the new TGT position. Repeat until you reach the last station, but do not switch back to the first station, else your coordinates will be overwritten (unless you undesignate to remove the TGT designation entirely). Conduct as-needed until all 4 stations are designated with individual coordinates, then run in and pickle each one individually.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Tholozor

[Pike]

Ok, I understand the TOO2 now. But then that isn't what is causing the issue. I had 4xGBU-31s - all on individual stations obviously. In TOO mode, it lets me designate the first weapon with no problem, but as soon as I step to the next weapon on a different station, it already has that 1st weapons coordinates set. If I then designate on TGT#2, weapon #2 has that new info, but if I step to the next one, weapon #3 already has weapon #2s coords and so on. After I get done with weapon #4, I've undesignated the TGP and stepped back to weapon #1 and it has #4's coordinates in the MSN page. I'm pulling my hair out. I'll go back and try to experiment with it again. I'm sure it's user error but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

 

So if I understand correctly - you guys are saying I can load 4 different coordinates into 4 different bombs using the TGP in TOO mode while orbiting away from the target and then run in and release all 4 in rapid sequence without having to do anything else, correct?

 

 

When you say you undesignate, are you pressing the correct button? What does the tpod do? Does it cage itself and leave the target area, or does it stay on target? It should leave and reset to its default position.

 

 

You may have to post a track file or a video so we can see what you are doing.

[Phantom453]

I too can not get this to work with two JDAMs on the same station in TOO mode, no matter what I try.

 

I can get four JDAM (one on each station) to hit four different targets, but every time I try with 8 JDAM I end up putting two JDAM on the same target and only hitting a total of four targets with 8 JDAM. the process I'm using is:

 

Allign JDAM

Ensure all stations in TOO mode

designate TGT 1 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 2

Step

designate TGT 3 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 4

step

designate TGT 5 in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 6

step

designate TGT 7 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 8

Undesignate

pickle JDAMS when in range.

 

Even if I just use four JDAM on two stations I still end up hitting only two targets.

 

I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Any help would be appreciated.

[Hoirtel]

I too can not get this to work with two JDAMs on the same station in TOO mode, no matter what I try.

 

I can get four JDAM (one on each station) to hit four different targets, but every time I try with 8 JDAM I end up putting two JDAM on the same target and only hitting a total of four targets with 8 JDAM. the process I'm using is:

 

Allign JDAM

Ensure all stations in TOO mode

designate TGT 1 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 2

Step

designate TGT 3 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 4

step

designate TGT 5 in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 6

step

designate TGT 7 one in TOO 1

switch to TOO 2 designate target 8

Undesignate

pickle JDAMS when in range.

 

Even if I just use four JDAM on two stations I still end up hitting only two targets.

 

I just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Any help would be appreciated.

 

I have now tried this and got it working. Your issue probably is pickling too quickly, you have to pickle one off the dual rack, then switch to the other TOO target (1 or 2) then pickle. This is the same in TOO and PP with dual racks for me. If you don't change between TOO1 and TOO2 it will drop both weapons (from the dual rack) on one set of co-ordinates. I have done this so many times, even when trying not to as I think it auto steps through the stations which confused me. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't fully realistic yet as it seems the margin for error is a bit high. My method now is to make sure all stations are set to TOO1 (after un-designating!) Pickle all double rack station's TOO1 then work through TOO2s by manually changing on the DDI. Keep a note of the station numbers as you work through them. This also has the benefit of keeping the aircraft more balanced as all that weight falls off.

 

Thanks to Pike and others for helping me out with this originally

Edited April 20, 2020 by Hoirtel

[Phantom453]

I have now tried this and got it working. Your issue probably is pickling too quickly, you have to pickle one off the dual rack, then switch to the other TOO target (1 or 2) then pickle. This is the same in TOO and PP with dual racks for me. If you don't change between TOO1 and TOO2 it will drop both weapons (from the dual rack) on one set of co-ordinates. I have done this so many times, even when trying not to as I think it auto steps through the stations which confused me. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't fully realistic yet as it seems the margin for error is a bit high. My method now is to make sure all stations are set to TOO1 (after un-designating!) Pickle all double rack station's TOO1 then work through TOO2s by manually changing on the DDI. Keep a note of the station numbers as you work through them. This also has the benefit of keeping the aircraft more balanced as all that weight falls off.

 

Thanks to Pike and others for helping me out with this originally

 

Thanks for your reply. I'll give this a try. I'm just surprised it hasn't been mentioned by others who seem to have it working. Hence why I felt I was still doing something wrong with the process.

 

Thanks again for your suggestion. :thumbup:

[DucS2r]

Thanks for your reply. I'll give this a try. I'm just surprised it hasn't been mentioned by others who seem to have it working. Hence why I felt I was still doing something wrong with the process.

 

Thanks again for your suggestion. :thumbup:

 

Thanks for bringing it up again. I have struggled with it for weeks and had exactly the same experience. Looking forward to trying it out tonight.

 

Edit: it worked! Thanks to the brain trust that figured this out. It is not the most realistic mission to drop 8 bombs on 8 targets, but it is fun and that is what this is about for me. Plus if I am stumped by something I keep at it till I get it right, so on to the next challenge.

Edited April 21, 2020 by DucS2r