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WW II needs some serious improvements


ouky1991
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I have purchased the K4 yesterday and I'm very disapointed in the AI oponents. They keep doing imposible manouvers and accelerating/decelerating like UFO. Are there any plans on improving the AI flight models?

 

 

 

Also, the mk 108 connon seems extremely weak compared to the test video here: https://imgur.com/gallery/HkGqW.

 

Is this going to be fixed in the new damage model? Does the AI even share the same DM as the players?

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I have purchased the K4 yesterday and I'm very disapointed in the AI oponents. They keep doing imposible manouvers and accelerating/decelerating like UFO. Are there any plans on improving the AI flight models?

 

 

 

Also, the mk 108 connon seems extremely weak compared to the test video here: https://imgur.com/gallery/HkGqW.

 

Is this going to be fixed in the new damage model? Does the AI even share the same DM as the players?

 

I think one of main goals is to improve AI.

New DM will certainly improve 30 mm cannon.New DM is aiming to improve AI DM as well.

No, AI don't share player's FM and DM. The level which planes are modeled in DCS, makes virtually impossible to simulate multiple AI planes FM/DM at hosting PC. CPU/GPU would burst in to fire.

AI FM is aimed for improvement too iirc.


Edited by grafspee

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Ai always use the same Aircraft module FM, has not diferent on players vs IA. The problem has the AI alwais use the AI aircrafts FM and engine at limit, and have not G-lock, acelerations and others desorientation problems over AI pilots. Some time ago ED talk about get "more human" to the AI. but yet we have not improvements.

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Ai always use the same Aircraft module FM, has not diferent on players vs IA. The problem has the AI alwais use the AI aircrafts FM and engine at limit, and have not G-lock, acelerations and others desorientation problems over AI pilots. Some time ago ED talk about get "more human" to the AI. but yet we have not improvements.

 

No, the AI is using the SFM version, along with no system limitations - no overheating and overreving of the engine. You cannot do the same maneuvers like the AI. Especially when they are stalling, you can see the typical SFM reactions.

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I think one of main goals is to improve AI.

New DM will certainly improve 30 mm cannon.New DM is aiming to improve AI DM as well.

No, AI don't share player's FM and DM. The level which planes are modeled in DCS, makes virtually impossible to simulate multiple AI planes FM/DM at hosting PC. CPU/GPU would burst in to fire.

AI FM is aimed for improvement too iirc.

 

 

Tkanks for reply, any ETA on those improvements? I remember some talk on reddit about DM coming sometime this year but haven't seen anything about FM.

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Their goal is this year to improve that stuff. I don't know if I'd expect it though. I love the 109, it's what I've spent majority of my Il2 time flying and I love the dcs version, but as OP says the AI is just horrendous and I don't play multiplayer.

 

If Ed can get the Ai to stop being UFOs, slightly improve vid, and get a campaign, then I could just uninstall il2

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Their goal is this year to improve that stuff. I don't know if I'd expect it though. I love the 109, it's what I've spent majority of my Il2 time flying and I love the dcs version, but as OP says the AI is just horrendous and I don't play multiplayer.

 

If Ed can get the Ai to stop being UFOs, slightly improve vid, and get a campaign, then I could just uninstall il2

 

I have uninstalled IL-2 yesterday, I just couldn't play it since I started DCS few months ago and their updated DM was the last drop.

 

 

On the other hand, while the DCS K4 is great, the AI is absolutely unaccaptable here. This would be a joke even in an arcade game

https://giphy.com/gifs/XDMAd3meUDcAztsBLg/html5

 

 

Please ED, can you do something about this?

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I think that the legends of incredible AI fave their source in simple misunderstanding of energy management. I heard that F-18 can not kill MiG-15 with guns... Yes, it is not a simple task, especially as you are trying to play at MiG's field - it has the best turn at 350-450 kph where F-18 (and Su-27 and MiG-29, too) is not more than a flying joke. Or a sitting duck staring at MiG "in incredible climbs". But as you fly 800-900 kph you can feel yourself in god mode. But the only way to win is deflection shooting (quite easy) . But forget about sticking to its tail.

 

The same is for WWII AI. Anyone can use Tacview and compare two plots - yours and your AI opponent. As far as I remember, it can plot full energy and g-loads in one plot.

I am sure that the graph will show that AI does not use "incredible G's" - usually it uses lower G's than you all the way building its energy where human pilot pull G's trying to shoot as soon as possible.

 

I can not say that AI is intelligent and smart like a dogfight championship winners, but it can do two things as a master - energy management and shooting.

 

The best sign of a master is a Tacview record where he won energy against his opponent without giving him a chance to shoot.

 

 

And I just recalled a story: as first 109F and G appearred in Russia, Soviet pilots experienced "Messerfear" reporting that 109s climb as rockets after attacks. But actually the problem was that Soviet pilots had no energy management theory and practice that time.


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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AI retains energy just a little but better than the human counterpart plane, due to the FM it uses. And that's on Excellent difficulty. But it's beatable using the correct tactics.

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Settings:

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I can not say that AI is intelligent and smart like a dogfight championship winners, but it can do two things as a master - energy management and shooting.

 

 

Yes, Shooting. Sniping your pilot from 1000m :P

Yo-Yo, I know that AI planes uses separate DM, what about FM?

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Was yo-yo answer an official statement that DCS AI is fine and players should just use better energy management? oO

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

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AI retains energy just a little but better than the human counterpart plane, due to the FM it uses. And that's on Excellent difficulty. But it's beatable using the correct tactics.

 

No. They have just the same drag FM parameters, the same prop and engine. But they never pull too much thinking that they catch the opponent right now. They can wait. And they never forget you any of your mistake.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Was yo-yo answer an official statement that DCS AI is fine and players should just use better energy management? oO

 

I think that the tracks, Tacview records and/or video of the players who have no trouble with AI would be the best answer.

 

And these materials would be a good training means.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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I had some encounters with AI on LFDM server and it seemed very docile since I last tested it a few years ago. I prefer PvP as with PvE you can't learn too much from it. Have something changed since the last AI update or it was always like that and what was change was only the behavior?

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Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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I had some encounters with AI on LFDM server and it seemed very docile since I last tested it a few years ago. I prefer PvP as with PvE you can't learn too much from it. Have something changed since the last AI update or it was always like that and what was change was only the behavior?

 

 

I am of similar opinion. I don't see what people are complaining about.

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We're just sharing ideas and opinions. Nothing to complain about.

I've just tested Bf vs Spit on excellent difficulty and I can re-confirm what Yo-Yo said. People WERE complaining about the UFO behavior of AI, especially the Spit's, but the AI update only changed the behavior, I reckon..

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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The AI was never doing any fancy things that Player doesnt can't do...

You have to watch Angels and Energy, thats 90% of People are struggling, because when you have no Energy you can not Engage or Turn, the Turn rate is also depending on your Airspeed...

 

 

Turning hard as possible doesnt help by any Means music_whistling.gif

 

 

Was recorded this morning, this it is not K4 but is the same thing,

 

P-51 vs k4 on Exellent..Video Quility sucks was done only for Training Purpose...Video is 12 mins long..

 

 

 

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

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I apologize for shitposting, but I would like to congratulate you on your post title. It is definitely true that WW II in general kind of sucked and could use lots of improvements. I think that is something we can all agree on.

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No. They have just the same drag FM parameters, the same prop and engine. But they never pull too much thinking that they catch the opponent right now. They can wait. And they never forget you any of your mistake.

 

 

Hello there. Can you tell us obout the new damage model? Specificaly, is the AI included or is it just for player controled planes? I haven't found any solid confirmation on this.

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Thank you to all captains obvious telling us not to pull as hard as we can! :D I learned a lot!

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

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Thank you to all captains obvious telling us not to pull as hard as we can! :D I learned a lot!

 

 

 

 

Can you tell all day long to do not this or this against AI,

 

but you see the AI is not something that is not beatable...

 

 

 

But soccer player doenst get good from staring a stratgey Board, only from Training..


Edited by MAD-MM

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

9./JG27

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I never said AI was unbeatable. I was just seeking confirmation ED sees AI in DCS as "fine". I got confirmation

Whisper of old OFP & C6 forums, now Kalbuth.

Specs : i7 6700K / MSI 1070 / 32G RAM / SSD / Rift S / Virpil MongooseT50 / Virpil T50 CM2 Throttle / MFG Crosswind.

All but Viggen, Yak52 & F16

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