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How to fire the GS-23? // RPM drops without firing


frumpy
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Hey there,

 

 

I don't get the rational on firing the internal gun of the ZA.

After takeoff,

 

RCtrl +3 for master arm,

LAlt+1/2 for launch & HUD

LShift + 0 to arm cannon

Explosive charge button

LShift+LCtrl+LAlt+A (Gun+GS, switch is moved even if cover is on)

LCtrl+Space

 

 

Then it does not fire, I think it should. After flying a bit around, suddenly the gun worked. After a bit more playing with the buttons (I don't remember which ones) the gun stopped working, but the RPM dropped when pressing the firebutton. What am I doing wrong?

 

 

p.s. the RPM drop can be replicated by

RCtrl +3

LAlt+1/2

LShift + 0

LCtrl+Space

Fire

l39za_rpm_decrease.trk


Edited by frumpy
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Hello,

 

 

In order to fire the gun you must have right speed (>400kph IAS) and right AOA (dive on a ground target should do). You will notice that AOA advisory lights up when you cannot fire the gun. It is designed that way so fumes are not ingested by the engine. For the same reason RPM drops automatically. It is a safety measure.

 

 

Btw, there is a button on the central piedestal to disable the limitter. It is for ground testing, but you may try to use it in the air to fire the gun under any speed and AOA.


Edited by -Martin-
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That's correct, the RPMs Will drop automatically to avoid ingestions of fumes from the guns.

More RPMs = More possibilities to ingest fumes to the engine.

 

It will drop RPMs all the way down to nothing.

I can't see anything about this in the manual, I've always assumed it was a poorly implemented emulation of gas ingestion.

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Hello,

 

It will drop RPMs all the way down to nothing.

I can't see anything about this in the manual, I've always assumed it was a poorly implemented emulation of gas ingestion.

 

p. 235 of the manual

 

PT-12 engine overheat control system

 

The РТ-12 system for the L-39ZA has an additional function designed for decreasing fuel supply from the main fuel system while firing the gun. This precaution is made to prevent the gunpowder gases from getting into the inlet. The РТ-12 system starts operation when the gun firing mode is selected and the trigger button is pressed. Fuel supply decrease occurs the whole time when the trigger button is pressed; the engine speed can be decreased down to idle. After the trigger button is released, the speed returns to its previous value.

 

By the way, if you do not charge the gun and press the trigger, PT-12 will engage and decrease your RPM without the gun actually firing. This shows that it does not try to emulate gas ingestion; instead it behaves as intended.


Edited by -Martin-
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  • 6 months later...

Btw, there is a button on the central piedestal to disable the limitter. It is for ground testing, but you may try to use it in the air to fire the gun under any speed and AOA.

 

What button?! I read the manual (years ago) and been flying the L-39 for years and never seen that?! I never cared to look it up because I thought it wasn't implemented in the first place. Should read the manual again, I guess.

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What button?! I read the manual (years ago) and been flying the L-39 for years and never seen that?! I never cared to look it up because I thought it wasn't implemented in the first place. Should read the manual again, I guess.

 

Yes, it is hard to notice it behind the stick; a tiny button so easy to overlook. It works, but you need to first turn the gun on. Once you turn it off and on again, you need to press the button again. One issue with it is that you cannot bind it to your hotas so it is bit inpractical if you try to use it during dogfights to get over the AOA limittation. I guess the button is so obscured that ED staff themselves overlooked it when they did the keybinds.

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Yes, it is hard to notice it behind the stick; a tiny button so easy to overlook. It works, but you need to first turn the gun on. Once you turn it off and on again, you need to press the button again. One issue with it is that you cannot bind it to your hotas so it is bit inpractical if you try to use it during dogfights to get over the AOA limittation. I guess the button is so obscured that ED staff themselves overlooked it when they did the keybinds.

 

Good God, I just saw it for the first time ;)

I pressed the button but firing the gun was still not possible. So it is not implemented as I always thought it to be?

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Good God, I just saw it for the first time ;)

I pressed the button but firing the gun was still not possible. So it is not implemented as I always thought it to be?

 

It is implemented. You still need to arm the gun as usually, only thing it does is disabling the limitter. You can even fire the gun on the ground and blow your front wheel away. Just make sure that you have armed evertything; master arm, trigger circuit breaker, trigger safety, and that the gun is on and armed before you press the button.

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It is implemented. You still need to arm the gun as usually, only thing it does is disabling the limitter. You can even fire the gun on the ground and blow your front wheel away. Just make sure that you have armed evertything; master arm, trigger circuit breaker, trigger safety, and that the gun is on and armed before you press the button.

 

Yeah, it works. Switched back to IR missiles during a fight and after going back to guns it wasn't implemented any more. So yeah, one has got to do it every time.

Thanks, mate! Dogfighting F-5's is now even easier :smilewink:

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  • 9 months later...

It looks like your engines only take damage, if your cannon bursts are too long with the gun deblock mode. Very short burst are ok, so there should be no limit there. But I think there is no override button for launching AA-missiles at lower speeds.

There are also machine guns, but they are very weak. Even unguided rockets are better in dogfights than MGs.

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I have found a way to bind the gun deblock button. You can either download my attachment and overwrite your game files with it or edit the files yourself.

If you want to edit it, go to your install directory and open the file ...\DCSWorld\Mods\aircraft\L-39C\Input\L-39ZA\joystick\default.lua with an editor.

There you can find a lot of entries between two curly brackets which looks like this:

join(res.keyCommands,{
...
})

Between the brackets add this line:

{category = {_('Center Pedestal'), _('Armament Control Panel'), _('Only Front Cockpit')}, name = _('Deblock Guns'),						cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPON_SYSTEM, down = 3077, up = 3077, value_down = 1, value_up = 0 },

If you want to add this for keyboard bindings as well, you need to do the same for the file ...\DCSWorld\Mods\aircraft\L-39C\Input\L-39ZA\keyboard\default.lua

 

 

Obviously, this only makes sense for the L-39ZA, because the L-39C has no cannons.

Also note that setting the arms-switch for the cannons back to off and then on again, will automatically re-enable the gunblock limitation.

 

Credits: I have learned this how-to from https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/7wli5i/how_to_add_extra_bindings_for_clickable_cockpit/

 

Input Modifications v1.0.zip


Edited by Tiramisu
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/28/2021 at 4:51 PM, Tiramisu said:

I have found a way to bind the gun deblock button. You can either download my attachment and overwrite your game files with it or edit the files yourself.

 

Just a heads up I've got the deblock and a few other binds for the L-39 in the keybinds project:

https://github.com/Munkwolf/dcs-community-keybinds/blob/main/InputCommands/L-39C/Input/L-39ZA/joystick/default.lua

 

That file is formatted for use with Quaggles mod: https://github.com/Quaggles/dcs-input-command-injector

 

Using Quaggles mod lets you put your custom binds in your Saved Games\DCS folder, where they won't get wiped out by updates

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On 8/22/2021 at 2:25 AM, Tiramisu said:

It looks like your engines only take damage, if your cannon bursts are too long with the gun deblock mode. Very short burst are ok, so there should be no limit there. But I think there is no override button for launching AA-missiles at lower speeds.

There are also machine guns, but they are very weak. Even unguided rockets are better in dogfights than MGs.

 

De-block button probably should not have been implemented. Its use during flight is strictly forbidden (IRL career ending). The button is used exclusively on the ground for maintenance/testing of the gun's mechanisms. 

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Thanks, that is interesting to know. But if it means win or death during dogfights, then I rather choose this button to win a dogfight. Probably those situations never occur in real life, but DCS is a sandbox simulator in the end.

 

@Munkwolf: Thanks for the link. I will take a look at that.

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