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Logbook -- a tool to record SP & MP progress


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Il 3/1/2021 at 16:25, Pikey ha scritto:

Hi, lovely setup.
I'm an MP only player, I tested it out and I thought I'd pass my early observations. I do this from what I found personally missing, but without mentioning all the existing features you implemented, so it will sound like that entitled rubboish you see a lot, but the idea is that it's just feedback without emotion. It's just an opinion 🙂. Your work is outstanding and I know the level of effort involved and how these projects are all encompassing 🙂 Great stuff, I love it.

That said, for MP, here's my observations.
The debrief.log we dont actually use much in scripting or anything really in MP. Items like 'what pilot we were' (we were... "me") are irrelevant and even a bit confusing. Having multiple pilots, is also a confusing concept, I get you can have multiple pilots and they have nationalities and awards in single player but in MP, this is largely irrelevant and adds nothing, we have a playername. Also, "what side we are fighting". What!? 🙂. When filling out my first online flight I stopped at the log uploader and wonder.. well who was I really fighting and why does it matter at all? Most of the time we have to make it up like Westeros, Easterbly and Southeria. Simply isnt interesting (in Player vs Player), but what is missed is the mission name, the server name and that sort of thing. Maybe picking the answer... humans or AI makes more sense to MP players!

Then the debrief.log deficiencies came into the light. Why did we have to enter our aircraft type? This should be autodetected, its definitely available to mission based logging events.

We have three checkboxes which are utterly alien to me. "Set as training, show in the timeline, ignore undisclosed targets". Well we are dealing with data here and presenting it. You did such an amazing job with the presentation (i'm a DBA by trade) but have no idea how this impacts the presentation and data itself. For some, this is a serious matter. I would say when dealing with personal statistics, that this entire thing can be quite a critical thing 🙂
Then another obvious and critical difference between SP offline and MP online statistics in step two. "In game flight date". What?! 🙂 Oh right, we can create a historic pilot story with this... right, there are loads of people who will love this, but for logging for MP, nope, not in the slightest bit interesting, we want the timestamps of when we flew and inventing dates for the flights is absolutley strange for statistics, even to the point that its lying, it goes against what a flight log book actually is. So having two dates to track... that is confusing yes and even a little concerning.

I didn''t have any expectations. I did have a wish I could make this useful for my virtual squadron, but no expectations. In order for this to be useful without grossly deviating from it's intended design, I'd have these goals in mind for Multiplayer with perhaps these design choices. Read that - this isn't entitled requests, this is explaining the different concepts and needs of two different userbases (and potentially more)
. It might help, I don't know, generally I'd be interested in the feedback if I were new to MP in DCS.

- I'd scratch a lot of the fluff around the system that MP doesn't use. I'd use different designs. Out would go multiple pilots, multiple dates of flight, selectable aircraft, training/timeline toggles. In would come the data from the server, the playername, the birth events and aircraft types, mission data and automation.
- The data would be set as a custom file to export, it would be a rolling log extract of what happened, what server, mission and events detected and it would upload to the pilots database online with one click, not 3 steps (thats the goal anyway ;))
- The representation online could remain very similar and show pilots by playername, hours in airframes, weapons and hit recorded, ejections, landings and such, however with very little customised changing of the data - it simply shows what happened without the story or pilot names/alleigances/fluffy stuff.
- An optional empty segment to attach the data that can be added after (and I think in both SP and MP they have the same meaning) which is the After Action Report. An AAR usually consists of the "story element" to the log data explaining any notable things that happened. It's missing in the UI for SP and for MP. For MP it can hold data per flight and existing of commentary on weather, exceptional difficulties, damage, things that went right/wrong, lessons learned etc. Depending on the mission, you might add recon details and it is still relevant. For SP, it's almost identical, but you can add some more roleplay elements.
- This might take the form of a Lua plugin, with options and UI in game, that have dialogues. Using the plugin could bypass the requirmeent to write and format your own log export and also protect the data with some obfuscation to make data poisoning less attractive.

I undertand the usecase isnt the same and it's fundamentally hard to incorpporate these ideas, but it might be worth mentioning in case you wanted to embark on a branch of your work that deals with Multiplayer. If not, then to have the differences explained. 🙂 I hope it's taken in the right way. I think what you did is incredible!

 

 

 

Hi Pikey,

I must thank you for your precious suggestions, on my side as mainly SP player, I tried to do an effort to improve this tool to be share with the whole community. As you intended original design is string SP oriented.

 

I will try to explain my point of view about the points you listed and how I tried to extend the use case for MP and virtual squadrons:

 

Multiple pilots are a direct heritage of the SP concept, personally I have 26 characters from various nations and various simulations I played from the first years of 2000s; I slavishly logged any event and a couple of years ago I finally created a tool to have all my "history" in one place, also as real military awards and medal collector you also see the care I spent on ranks and awards. Well I understand this can be a little confusing for a MP player and, belive me, I thought a lot to find an acceptable trade off between two aspects.

 

To accomplish this I decided to create an allegiance called "Undefined" where no ranks or awards are present and inteded for MP; in this way and in my idea, multiple pilots would be still useful to:

- Arrange "dead is dead" characters once joined a virtual squadron; Once you created a squadron you can join this as user and create inside it many pilots.

- Divide experiences from different sims;

 

Following your suggestions, mission name is present, even if only in the narrative and I must say server name could be a very interesting add, especially for the statistics.

 

"Set as training" is a check created upon request to log practice mission where you may shot down dozens of planes ruining statistics, checking this box those mission are clearly hightlighted and kills are not calculated in cumulative statistics numbers.

 

"Ignore undisclosed targets", also realized on request, is to avoid the registration of the kills of the scenery objects with are logged as empty strings and are not significant for the gameplay.

 

Well, the date is an absolute crititical thing... Or I must say "double date". To limit this, the log application prefill the date of the log file and let you change the date to one of your preference maintaining the log file date as timestamp. Not perfect but I also use "present date" for DCS and this is in order to make double date transparent for this use case.

 

I'm really interested in your and other players suggestions, especially if this can help to make this tool useful for squadron management (thing you can try with "Create a virtual squadron" option).

 

When you say to get data from server and "The data would be set as a custom file to export...", what do you intend exactly? At moment I find only the poor debrief.log I agree is very very limited.

 

AAR section is already present, "Event notes" has this purpose and can be edited in the log parser too before sending them to the logbook.

 

Are Lua plugins intented to be integrated in DCS? Can you explain me how do you intend this? How this work? Are there some examples? Sorry but I play DCS only in the last year and all I done for this project is on my spare time.

 

I thank you again for sharing your considerations and I hope you can help me with some other advice to improve this tool. At the moment, for instance, I'm projecting a greenie board for virtual squadrons and/or users; one of the most complex thing is an accurate integration in the UI in order to avoid a jumble of functions without sense.

 

 

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I would like to share a little project I developed in my spare time. I was always be tired because I lose my career progress time to time.   For an offline player like me is very fun to

Hi everybody, I think it is the moment to develop a greenie board both for single pilots (not user) and for squadron.   May I ask some suggestions? Especially because I would like it will be

Hi Jbertin, Have you created a pilot inside Logbook? This dropdown list pilots from Logbook to add mission to.   Bye

Hi there again. So you dont need to explain your design, it is what it is and it is SP centric 🙂. What I was outlining is just possibilities. I see you have technical skills, don't be afraid of Lua, it's fairly easy to copy pasta learn.

What you could do is look at Simple radio mod https://github.com/ciribob/DCS-SimpleRadioStandalone/releases to see a Lua plugin and options. The difference between ED core plugins and 3rd party mod plugins is their location. The latter is in your saved games. A plugin is a format designed to be used to allow a UI in game on the games options page. It then configures global variables.

There are two sides to looking at additional scripting - from the mission, a locked down environment, designed for limited scripting api to the simulator scripting engine https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/Simulator_Scripting_Engine_Documentation mainly used to enhance the mission by allowing direct lua to be run rather than the mission editor conditionals, and the server side API which plugins only can access (but can also access the mission environment) )look in your install\API\DCS_ControlAPI.html for the extra API functions.

The kills, takeoffs, landings etc are realtime simulator events. You can attach handlers to them and do what you want with them. The Sim takes these and creates that debrief log you use. However, you can do all this yourself. So, one such approach would be to run a plugin that captures exactly what you want, in a format you want and writes it to your own file, or indeed as others have done, export to json or other mediums and sent directly (or entered into a local sqllite). Because these are realtime, you can even have the game crash and save the statistics for MP and be better than the game.

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There are lots of examples over the years of people creating statistics. SLMOD was fairly defacto at one point. The last one I saw is still WIP but you get the idea:

Hope this broadens your experience anyway. I dont know if its entirely what you want or need but feel free to PM me or find me on the MOOSE scripting Discord.

___________________________________________________________________________

SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *

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Il 24/2/2021 at 12:23, Nealius ha scritto:

Are there any plans to add the WW2 assets ground units to the logbook? It appears ground unit kills are not automatically synced with the website.

 

Hi Nealius, asset are manually syncronized by me, in the application is present a system that record the association. Periodically I check the info and I add missing assets basing on all users input.

 

Bye

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Hi everybody, I think it is the moment to develop a greenie board both for single pilots (not user) and for squadron.

 

May I ask some suggestions? Especially because I would like it will be suitable for all the users. 

I checked online and I see many standards, many legends, do you have any suggestion or reliable example to follow?

 

For instance I found for myself this:

  • Green -> Ok -> 4 points
  • Yellow -> Fair -> 3 points
  • Orange -> Bolter -> 2,5 points
  • Orange -> No grade -> 2 points
  • Red -> Cut -> 1 point

 

Then I will create a row with average and the sequence of landing outcomes.

 

Soon the app will be enabled to record grades in order to have a good base for the tests. 

Thanks in advance for the help, bye


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