[FIXED] Notch filter on AG radar: Lock drops moments after, and other AG radar issues

[J20Stronk]

Hi. it appear that the notch filter is affecting the AG radar. Locking up a target, whether mobile or stationary will unlock a few moments later.

 

I understand that MAP and SEA1 modes can now pick up Stationary targets, and this phenomenon is prevalent in these modes the most, since the targeta don't move and I'm assuming the notch filter implementation checks for movement.

 

Moving targets also have a chance to be unlocked if they move adjacent or away from you. I believe the notch filter is the culprit.

 

 

 

On a side note, there is another issue and "oversight" with the AG radar. There is an issue where the radar will sometimes switch to another random mode when pressing target unlock, ie. It'll go from MAP to GMTT or SEA2 to MAP etc.

 

Also, the radar always resets back to 40 nm range which can be a pain when you are trying to find the target area again after unlocking a target. Having it remember the range would be less disorienting, unless the real aircraft resets it detection range to 40 nm.

Edited May 12, 2020 by uboats

[foxwxl]

Will check, thanks.

[foxwxl]

Target filter problem has been confirmed & reported.

 

Unlock and random mode change can not be reproduced on my side, check if is your joystick's problem(ie. warthog with target software)

[Rudel_chw]

Unlock and random mode change can not be reproduced on my side, check if is your joystick's problem(ie. warthog with target software)

 

It is not a joystick issue, I lock the target and the radar unlocks by itself a few seconds later, note also how it keeps returning to 40nm range by itself:

 

SiEOZmLMx60

 

I'm attaching the mission used on this video.

JF17 - Training - M10b Air-Sea Anti Shipping (by Rudel_chw).miz

[J20Stronk]

Unlock and random mode change can not be reproduced on my side, check if is your joystick's problem(ie. warthog with target software)

 

I guess I kinda worded it wrong. I've checked my bindings many times; whenever I press S2 to unlock it seems to reset the radar to the second-to-last used mode.

 

It doesn't remember what mode I'm in, and what range I set. When I switch to another mode, press S2 to unlock, it will return to the previous mode. Even if I don't have a target it will switch back and reset range to 40NM.

 

For example: switch to GMTI from MAP, set range to 20NM, press S2 (with or without locking anything), it'll return to MAP and set range to 40.

 

Or switch to GMTI from MAP, then to SEA1, set range to 80NM, press S2 (with or without lock), it'll go back to either GMTI or MAP (when it should be SEA1) and set 40 nm (should be 80NM).

[J20Stronk]

After some more testing, I have found a lot more quirks with the AG radar. I'm unsure if these are simply behaviours of the real KLJ-7, but to me they feel like bugs.

 

 

First:

Like mentioned previously, hitting S2 to unlock, regardless if you have a target locked or not, will always return the radar to a previously used mode and resets the detection distance to 40. You'd think it would simply unlock from the target or point and retain the selected mode and distance, but that is not the case.

 

Second:

Scan zones and detection. The AG radar appears to have 2 scan zones.

 

One is the RBM mapping zone that scans +/- 45 degree vertical and +/- 15, 30, and 60 horizontal. It is what gives us the fuzzy green returns which are not "lockable", and can be anything from ships at sea, buildings, trees or even aircraft.

 

The second is a "detection" cone. This one appears to scan +/-5 to 10 degrees vertical within the longitudinal center of the RBM Mapping scan. This is what allows the radar to actually "see" lockable targets as green "bricks", such as ships in SEA1/2, convoys in GMTI, and even stationary targets like tanks and radar stations in MAP (they appear as tiny gray boxes FYI).

 

You'd thing the "Detection" scan would have the same +/-45 vertical volume as the RBM mapping Scan zone, unless radar Gain is actually modeled, which would make targets near the center of the RBM scan zone much easier to detect that those along the edge.

 

Third:

Ground stabilization. I'm not sure if the real one is ground stabbed when in AG mode, but it would definitely help in keeping a consistent scan when banking. Also, the same "pitch equals inverse antenna elevation" bug is present here as in the AA radar, where pitching up say, 5 degress means the atenna will look 5 degrees below where it says it's scanning.

 

Fourth and final thing of note

Elevation no longer seems to work since last patch. Neither axis, buttons, or even slave to SPI seem to make the antenna move up or down. On the RDR page, the elevation number changes when using said methods of moving the antenna, but the scan indicator next to the number will stay in the center.

 

As stated earlier, the "detection" zone is dependent on the longitudinal center of the scan area, which makes it hard to use GMTI, SEA, and even MAP to find lockable targets.

 

 

 

In conclusion, the AG radar we have is extremely useful for navigation and strike missions, especially now with the ability for it to detect and lock up stationary targets in MAP and SEA1 modes. Please consider addresing or clarifying these points. Thanks!

Edited April 1, 2020 by J20Stronk

[foxwxl]

I guess I kinda worded it wrong. I've checked my bindings many times; whenever I press S2 to unlock it seems to reset the radar to the second-to-last used mode.

 

It doesn't remember what mode I'm in, and what range I set. When I switch to another mode, press S2 to unlock, it will return to the previous mode. Even if I don't have a target it will switch back and reset range to 40NM.

 

For example: switch to GMTI from MAP, set range to 20NM, press S2 (with or without locking anything), it'll return to MAP and set range to 40.

 

Or switch to GMTI from MAP, then to SEA1, set range to 80NM, press S2 (with or without lock), it'll go back to either GMTI or MAP (when it should be SEA1) and set 40 nm (should be 80NM).

 

Not happened on my side.

 

I've tried lock and unlock, lock and unlock, lock and unlock, serval times. The radar stay at the mode I entered, no mode changes at my side.

[foxwxl]

After some more testing, I have found a lot more quirks with the AG radar. I'm unsure if these are simply behaviours of the real KLJ-7, but to me they feel like bugs.

 

 

First:

Like mentioned previously, hitting S2 to unlock, regardless if you have a target locked or not, will always return the radar to a previously used mode and resets the detection distance to 40. You'd think it would simply unlock from the target or point and retain the selected mode and distance, but that is not the case.

 

Second:

Scan zones and detection. The AG radar appears to have 2 scan zones.

 

One is the RBM mapping zone that scans +/- 45 degree vertical and +/- 15, 30, and 60 horizontal. It is what gives us the fuzzy green returns which are not "lockable", and can be anything from ships at sea, buildings, trees or even aircraft.

 

The second is a "detection" cone. This one appears to scan +/-5 to 10 degrees vertical within the longitudinal center of the RBM Mapping scan. This is what allows the radar to actually "see" lockable targets as green "bricks", such as ships in SEA1/2, convoys in GMTI, and even stationary targets like tanks and radar stations in MAP (they appear as tiny gray boxes FYI).

 

You'd thing the "Detection" scan would have the same +/-45 vertical volume as the RBM mapping Scan zone, unless radar Gain is actually modeled, which would make targets near the center of the RBM scan zone much easier to detect that those along the edge.

 

Third:

Ground stabilization. I'm not sure if the real one is ground stabbed when in AG mode, but it would definitely help in keeping a consistent scan when banking. Also, the same "pitch equals inverse antenna elevation" bug is present here as in the AA radar, where pitching up say, 5 degress means the atenna will look 5 degrees below where it says it's scanning.

 

Fourth and final thing of note

Elevation no longer seems to work since last patch. Neither axis, buttons, or even slave to SPI seem to make the antenna move up or down. On the RDR page, the elevation number changes when using said methods of moving the antenna, but the scan indicator next to the number will stay in the center.

 

As stated earlier, the "detection" zone is dependent on the longitudinal center of the scan area, which makes it hard to use GMTI, SEA, and even MAP to find lockable targets.

 

 

 

In conclusion, the AG radar we have is extremely useful for navigation and strike missions, especially now with the ability for it to detect and lock up stationary targets in MAP and SEA1 modes. Please consider addresing or clarifying these points. Thanks!

1.Not happened on my side. Radar stay at the mode I selected, unless SP/SLV is commanded(these two command the AG radar to reset to default mode,MAP-RBM).

 

2. RBM is using ED's AG radar API, at current stage,it's not able to show U the exact place where the real scan zone is, the whole map inside AZ limiter will be updated, no matter where the real scan zone is pointed.

 

3.Elevation stabilzer is fixed internally and waiting for the update/hotfix to release.

 

4.My elevation indicator do move up and down with the number, not centered in the middle.

[J20Stronk]

1.Not happened on my side. Radar stay at the mode I selected, unless SP/SLV is commanded(these two command the AG radar to reset to default mode,MAP-RBM).

 

2. RBM is using ED's AG radar API, at current stage,it's not able to show U the exact place where the real scan zone is, the whole map inside AZ limiter will be updated, no matter where the real scan zone is pointed.

 

3.Elevation stabilzer is fixed internally and waiting for the update/hotfix to release.

 

4.My elevation indicator do move up and down with the number, not centered in the middle.

 

May I ask, are you using a development build where these issues were addressed, because points 1 and 4 are definitely present on the latest live OB build.

 

Eduardo demonstrated point 1 in his video, and the same is present on my end plus the S2 reset issue.

[foxwxl]

May I ask, are you using a development build where these issues were addressed, because points 1 and 4 are definitely present on the latest live OB build.

 

Eduardo demonstrated point 1 in his video, and the same is present on my end plus the S2 reset issue.

 

OB build is based on internal testing build, if there is no problem(or already fixed) on testing build, U should be fine when the next update is rolling out.

[GIGA_HORSE]

Did happen to me while in MP. First with ground unit, I locked it, lock would drop on it's own in seconds. Same thing happened later when I was trying to lock ships in Sea mode. It would lock, then unlock on it's own within seconds.

[foxwxl]

Did happen to me while in MP. First with ground unit, I locked it, lock would drop on it's own in seconds. Same thing happened later when I was trying to lock ships in Sea mode. It would lock, then unlock on it's own within seconds.

 

AG notch filter problem has been confirmed and fixed internally.

[Matchstick]

AG notch filter problem has been confirmed and fixed internally.

 

Did the notch filter fix go into today's patch release as I'm still seeing AG SEA 1 & 2 mode designations being dropped immediately (and the radar basically seizing up once they are dropped - this may be because the radar is remaining in SMTT despite the fact that target lock has been dropped and you need to use undesignate to get it working again)

Edited April 16, 2020 by Matchstick

[J20Stronk]

Yep, SEA1/2 and GMTI still drop locks.

[tees]

Yep, SEA1/2 and GMTI still drop locks.

Same here AG SEA1 SEA2 drop locks almost instantly sometimes last for few sec.

[foxwxl]

Fixed internally and waiting the testing build to update to verify.

[tees]

Fixed internally and waiting the testing build to update to verify.

still after today small patch

Edited April 22, 2020 by tees