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NDB presets gone?


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Hi, i've been years without flying the 15 and now i've tried to edit a mission in the editor and found out i don't have the option to set the 3 NDB presets anymore, they are gone from the mission editor options when you select the plane. Is this OK or just a bug?

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AFAIK the 3 NDB preset functionality has been removed (source Chuck's Guide).


Edited by Ramsay
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  • 4 weeks later...
AFAIK the 3 NDB preset functionality has been removed (source Chuck's Guide).

 

Chuck's guide is incorrect. The 3 NDB buttons act as the range selectors (low, mid, high) when the Far/Near switch is in the near position. The official Mig-15 manual has not been updated to reflect this.

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Chuck's guide is incorrect.

Chuck's guide is correct, the ability to pre-configure 3 NDB frequencies in the ME was removed several versions ago i.e. the ME radio page.

 

Old Preset functionality (now removed)

abU6D7T.jpg

The 3 NDB buttons act as the range selectors (low, mid, high) when the Far/Near switch is in the near position. The official Mig-15 manual has not been updated to reflect this.

 

While the 3 switches may have been give a new undocumented function, this was not what the OP asked about.

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  • 2 months later...

Still no NDB presets for "Near" Beacon

 

Hallo

 

I truly hope it's a proper channel to request repair in NDB 1/2/3 presets. Currently MiG15bis works only on "Far" NDB. One cannot set a proper frequencies for "Near" NDB in Mission Editor. As a result switching Near/Far makes no sense.

 

If (by any other possibility) it's a new feature - can I ask for explanation what are NDB -1/2/3 now for? I found them useless, but I may go wrong...


Edited by 303_Kermit
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Currently MiG15bis works only on "Far" NDB. One cannot set a proper frequencies for "Near" NDB in Mission Editor. As a result switching Near/Far makes no sense.

 

If (by any other possibility) it's a new feature - can I ask for explanation what are NDB -1/2/3 now for?

 

TL;DR:

 

The switches set the frequency range for the "Near" NDB.

 

Detail:

 

The ARC-5 has a frequency range of 150 - 1300 kHz, divided into three sub-ranges:

 

1. 150 - 310 kHz

2. 310 - 640 kHz

3. 640 - 1300 kHz.

 

Note that receiving the second Senaki NDB (f = 129 kHz) with the ARC-5 is impossible, because 129 kHz is outside of the ARC-5 receiving range of 150-1300 kHz.

 

The ARC-5 contains an electrical motor for switching between the three frequency sub-ranges.

Electrical motor control depends on the setting of the NEAR-FAR NDB switch:

 

1. When the NEAR-FAR NDB switch is set to FAR, sub-ranges can be switched by rotating the three-position frequency band switch on the ARC-5 panel.

 

2. When the NEAR-FAR NDB switch is set to NEAR, sub-ranges can be switched by the three NDB switches 1-3 on the near NDB frequency range control panel (and not by the three-position frequency band switch).

 

The flight manual has to be edited to reflect this change.


Edited by Ramsay

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Hello

 

Thanks for an answer, but It's not helping. It doesn't explain how exactly shall I use ARK 5 in flight. I red posts placed in topic and I red all the manual. Repeating it here creates no added value. Also it doesn't explain how the hell can I set Near and Far beacon in ARK 5.

 

Previously it worked just fine. One set everything in editor - done. Currently "Near-Far" switch makes no sense (nor has it NDB 1 - 3 switch) since it's quicker to set proper range on ARK 5 panel. Precise frequency one has to adjust anyway... being on final approach ...

 

 

 

Current working of ARK 5 isn't close to the real one (previous was just fine - one set three presets in editor - NDB 1 = Near Beacon for primary AF, NDB=2 Near beacon for backup AF, NDB 3 = left usually free).

 

How do you actually imagine to use NDB in flight right now? Can you please revert to the previous state? Or is there any other way to have preset for Near and Far beacon but i somehow didn't figured it out yet. So far there is no logic in current solution.

 

I bought a working module, and someone broke it down. It's highly unexpected.

 

With my best regards

303_Kermit


Edited by 303_Kermit
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Currently the ARK-5 works as the real one.

 

Basically you turn the frequnecy for the "FAR". This is the "main NDB" for navigation purpouses.

 

To make an NDB apoproach, you dial the "FAR" frequency and the NEAR is set automaticaly when yopu select the appropiate "Sub-Sector".

The 150-1060 general frequency range is divided in 3 "Sub-Sectors":

1. 150 - 310 kHz

2. 310 - 640 kHz

3. 640 - 1300 kHz.

 

For exemple, if you turn the ARK-5 to 150, for the "NEAR", if you select the Sub-Sector II: you get the 310khz freq, if you select the Sub-Sector III you get the 640 freq.

 

In this example, 150 is in the 1st Sub-Sector, so you can´t get the 1st sub-sector freq. for the 150-310 FAR freq.

 

So for an airodrome with 150-310 (outer-Inner) beacons, you dial 150 in the ARK-5 and select the Sub-sector II.

 

Note: if you select more than 1 Sub-Sector, the ARK-5 will broke, because the antenna will try to find 2 freq at the same time.

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Current working of ARK 5 isn't close to the real one (previous was just fine - one set three presets in editor - NDB 1 = Near Beacon for primary AF, NDB=2 Near beacon for backup AF, NDB 3 = left usually free).

 

It's been said the previous system model was unrealistic.

 

The ARC-5 doesn't have the ability to save preset frequencies.

 

How do you actually imagine to use NDB in flight right now? ... is there any other way to have preset for Near and Far beacon but i somehow didn't figured it out yet.

The ARC-5 "FAR" NDB Frequency range and frequency is set on the main control box i.e.

 

Senaki-Kolkhi Outer NDB = 335 kHz

Frequency Range = 310-640

Dial/Kneeboard = 334 kHz

 

The ARC-5 "NEAR" NDB Frequency range is set on the NDB 1/2/3 Switches and frequency is set on the main control box (it should need little if any adjustment) i.e.

 

Senaki-Kolkhi Inner NDB = 688 kHz

NDB frequency range switch "NDB 3" = 640-1300

Dial/Kneeboard = 689 kHz

 

UtzSkD7.jpg

 

So far there is no logic in current solution.

 

The two frequencies are on different sub-ranges and can be tuned with the same position of the tuning crank by switching between near/far using the near/far switch.

 

AFAIK in DCS and RL the Near/Far sub-ranges don't always align, in part because it's DCS and in part because the Caucasus navigation aids aren't contemporary with the MiG-15.

 

I bought a working module, and someone broke it down. It's highly unexpected.

When information/SME feedback is provided, ED adjusts DCS when practicable.

 

The module hasn't been broken, the change in ARC-5 behaviour was deliberate to make operation of the ARC-5 radio set more accurate.

 

Tested using a MiG-15 at Senaki, DCS 2.5.6.50979

 

Note, there is a DCS issue where ADF stops working after a while, AFAIK it effects multiple modules and is not specific to the MiG-15.


Edited by Ramsay
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Krymsk:

 

Outer NDB 408 kHz, Inner NDB 803kHz

 

AF1QipNyAIvlbClTKQZ_1626S98NdZewBcHQtTYSvP3J?key=YnpUdDJIWW43Tk1GWFFERzlIdXdZNzhsMlBZWU93

 

I set Outer NDB into ARK 5:

 

AF1QipNJpeaosbGyjit7t4sYI4jEkoV876KiMQYr7-Hd

 

I also set NDB 3 swich "ON"

 

AF1QipPc2DvQ_P_83-J_B6XUNUDrJkpooOl7onF50PxS

 

Now let's check: I shall find Outer NDB behind my back ~180°:

 

AF1QipPJEExWBUoVpeI09hIcIUxjXFyrbpkhdu2Pzkln

 

Right! Now... lets check Inner NDB....

 

AF1QipMFZZpIgiZRm7sb8l6HGQ7akXEpq_mScC4K4DbS

 

Hmmmm ..... Nothing seems to work. needle turns around without much sense. How is that possible? It is simple

 

On Senaki - Kolchi the two frequencies are overlaping. Also at Anapa, but Krymsk is anywhere near. Also whats the point in all system - Swich near / far - Swich NDB 1 - switch NDB 2 - swich NDB 3 since i can do the same what you described, much simpler - just by turning "range dial":

 

AF1QipNqY3eKigX1sW9MgiO9ZKp8_iBK1OFm7qkqRmmp

 

As I wrote... I understood what you wrote, it just makes no sense. Can you somehow confirm by any source that ARK 5 was working the way you described? I can contact with "Muzeum Lotnictwa" in Krakow. They have plenty of Lim 1 / 2 / Lim 5 / MiG 15 / MiG 15 bis... Also finding old ARK 5 shouldn't be much a problem. I can make a travel, do a fotos and check what's the truth...

 

With my best regards

Kermit

 

Somehow i expirienced problems with sharing my fotos. I'll check later.... Bloody google :-)


Edited by 303_Kermit
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Can you somehow confirm by any source that ARK 5 was working the way you described?

Unfortunately not, for the ARC-5's operation I'm reliant on ED and info. from forum users who are more knowledgeable / read Russian, etc.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2518431#post2518431

 

 

Krymsk:

 

Outer NDB 408 kHz, Inner NDB 803kHz

 

I set Outer NDB into ARK 5:

 

I also set NDB 3 swich "ON"

 

Now let's check: I shall find Outer NDB behind my back ~180°:

 

Right! Now... lets check Inner NDB....

 

Hmmmm ..... Nothing seems to work. needle turns around without much sense. How is that possible?

 

The frequency spacing at Krymsk is incorrect for the MiG-15

 

• OM = 408 kHz

• IM = OM*2 + 13 kHz = (408*2) +13 = 829 kHz

 

In DCS 1.2.16 the Inner Marker is 830 kHz i.e. correct for the ARC-5's bands.

 

sfsamom.jpg

 

I don't recall why ED changed it (perhaps there was a conflict with another NDB or there was a typo and the 3 and 0 were transposed 830 --> 803 ? ).


Edited by Ramsay

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The "problem" is that the NDB frequencies in DCS are from late 90-early 00.

So , the far-near not match exactly with the math equation that the ARK-5: uses (Far*2)+20.

One solution maybe is "to adjust the Near frequency" of the AB only to match the maths that work in the ARK-5 in the db.

 

The ARK-10 was one of the first (the first I think) with presets and with the particularity that "NEAR" only worked with the 2-4-6-8 presets, 1-3-5-7-9 were used for navigation only.

The Selector defined two zones I/II to selct if the Near was below (I) ot above (II) the preset, to avoid possible problems with the 3 independent selectors.

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Previous ARK implementation was similar to RSBN and ARK in MiG-21 module - working on all airbases and NDBs and thus useful for current map, but not realistic.

 

Current implementation is more like RSBN in L-39 module - more realistic, but beacuse of that, usable only for a few airbases.

 

There's nothing to "fix" here, except for creating a Caucasus map with '50s-'60s airbases and NDB frequencies on it ;)

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'50s-'60s airbases and NDB frequencies on it

 

You can actually make your own beacons. Open the ME, plonk down a jeep, add an optional Morse soundfile for aural ID, make it transmit AM on the KHz range and that's your NDB up and working.

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  • 2 months later...

I managed to find an original ARK-5 instruction. Unfortunately it is all in Russian language which I (sadly) do not poses. A friend of mine does translate it for me, and he insist that he found a chapter about our problem. I try to post exactly what he found (with the quote of course from original).

From that what he describes "there was a possibility to set up on the ground three frequencies for ndb beacon in MiG15bis. Also it seems that those 3 swiches NDB-1 / NDB-2 / NDB-3 aren't standard part of ARK-5 instalation. It seems that they are added extra for MiG 15bis. Please be patient untill i find precise chapter about it.

 

With my best regards

Kermit

 

Below a couple photos from original instruction:

 

Screenshot-2020-10-09-053218.png

Screenshot-2020-10-09-054333.png

Screenshot-2020-10-09-054655.png


Edited by 303_Kermit
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