DCS WWI

[CHSubZero]

+1 for a WW1 flyer

 

[Zius]

+1 for a WW1 flyer

 

 

Patrouille Dewoitine - Swiss Air Force 1931. (I had to look it up)

 

 

Hardly WW1 but still very cool! :thumbup:

 

 

Btw, the wing looks really a lot like that of the Fokker D.VIII:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_D.VIII#/media/File:Fokker_D.VIII_3-view.svg

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewoitine_D.27#/media/File:Dewoitine_D.27_3-view_Aero_Digest_July,1930.png

Edited March 15, 2020 by Zius

[Bozon]

I think it's the other way around.

 

DCS's strength is the simulation. In a complex plane, especially one with computers doing a lot for you, you tend to not notice it. But in a small, light, simple plane, everything you do has consequences. Lean your body to the left, centre of gravity goes to the left, aircraft banks. Fuel too lean, engine problems. Fuel too rich, engine problems. Etc. In a WW1 plane, there were no electronic aids or anything like that. And solving a gun jam may involve something else than just hitting some key repeatedly.

 

...

WWI planes are difficult to simulate because too much relies on “seat of your pants” feeling rather than instruments. DCS is good for simulating instruments. Sure it can probably model a WWI plane as well as any other current sim, but that is the point - “as well”. It will not play to DCS advantages.

 

Not that I mind WWI planes, I will probably buy a few, but this will scatter the DCS planes roster even more.

[Tom Kazansky]

WWI planes are difficult to simulate because too much relies on “seat of your pants” feeling rather than instruments. DCS is good for simulating instruments. Sure it can probably model a WWI plane as well as any other current sim, but that is the point - “as well”. It will not play to DCS advantages.

 

Not that I mind WWI planes, I will probably buy a few, but this will scatter the DCS planes roster even more.

 

maybe VR would change this to the better. I have only little (but overwhelming) VR experience yet but as I read the following post I could almost feel the wind around my nose just by anticipation ;)

 

Yeah, I recently started flying the "other" WW1 sim in VR and its a hoot. Plus for VR its great because you get up close an personal and it really shines there.

[Zius]

WWI planes are difficult to simulate because too much relies on “seat of your pants” feeling rather than instruments. DCS is good for simulating instruments. Sure it can probably model a WWI plane as well as any other current sim, but that is the point - “as well”. It will not play to DCS advantages.

I beg to differ. In my opinion, the flight modelling that DCS offers is the best available in commercial PC simulation.

 

Not to mention real-time flow modelling of wing warping etc., I think DCS is the only commercial simulation which could possibly handle that.

 

Yes, it's different from flying the real thing, and the difference between the simulation and reality is bigger in a WW1 aircraft than it is in the Hornet. But it's the best that is possible, and, let's face it, PC simulation can never simulate flying in an open cockpit (unless you put a strong ventilator next to your screen ;))

 

this will scatter the DCS planes roster even more.

This depends as well. Personally I see DCS as a sandbox. So a lack of suitable opponents wouldn't bother me at all. If we get only a Fokker D.VIIF and nothing else, we could:

- dogfight other D.VIIF's (why not?)

- dogfight WW2 aircraft (you may get lucky and it's not even that far-fetched, Dutch airforce flew the D.VII until 1931, Swiss airforce still ordered new ones in 1928 )

- Do reconaissance or light bombing missions against WW2 infantry, trucks and other more or less appropriate targets

All in a more or less appropriate map.

 

 

In my opinion it would be unfeasable and stupid for DCS to try and model WW1 in it's entirety, but like I said, this is not necessary at all.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Zius

[Pikey]

I beg to differ. In my opinion, the flight modelling that DCS offers is the best available in commercial PC simulation.

 

Not to mention real-time flow modelling of wing warping etc., I think DCS is the only commercial simulation which could possibly handle that.

 

Yes, it's different from flying the real thing, and the difference between the simulation and reality is bigger in a WW1 aircraft than it is in the Hornet.

 

 

This depends as well. Personally I see DCS as a sandbox. So a lack of suitable opponents wouldn't bother me at all. If we get only a Fokker D.VIIF and nothing else, we could:

- dogfight other D.VIIF's (why not?)

- dogfight WW2 aircraft (you may get lucky and it's not even that far-fetched, Dutch airforce flew the D.VII until 1931, Swiss airforce still ordered new ones in 1928)

- Do reconaissance or light bombing missions against WW2 infantry, trucks and other more or less appropriate targets

All in a more or less appropriate map.

 

 

In my opinion it would be unfeasable and stupid for DCS to try and model WW1 in it's entirety, but like I said, this is not necessary at all.

 

 

Yes, I agree also. A strong point of DCS is it's FM's. Flying without instruments cuts everything down to comparitive FM's. DCS still needs to catch up on weather.

However, it's also strong in what made A-10C famous, so, there's no real argument for having one or the other, except integration of multiple modules in multiplayer. On that point, it is definitely ahead of anything. The first time you do CAS with real players or buddy lase or team up with multple flights over datalink, you see what DCS really has.

[Ercoupe]

WW1 would not be taking advantage of the real potential of this engine. It would be a waste, in my opinion. We have IL-2 GB doing that.

[Eldur]

A full DCS: Zeppelin module would roll however...

[reece146]

WWI aircraft would great. I'd buy them.

[Zius]

A full DCS: Zeppelin module would roll however...

 

 

I'd buy that as well.

 

 

But I think it can be difficult to model correctly...

[Svsmokey]

A full DCS: Zeppelin module would roll however...

 

My favorite mission in Red Baron was shooting those down . Not as easy as one might think !

[Northstar98]

Totally agree here. Imho it is way ahead of any other competitors in every aspect but content. The flight models and the feeling of the airframes are incredible. The visuals are stunning. And the assets we have (could be more) are first class quality. But if it wasn't for your excellent campaigns, there wouldn't be any ww2 content at all.

 

 

Which is a pity, because like you said, it has great potential. The Normandy map is pretty good since the latest upgrades. We could even use the current Caucasus like the Kuban DLC in that other game if we only had some more AI assets.

 

Only things in which the other one is ahead are the dynamic campaign. If we got something like that in DCS, it would be a dream come true. And maybe the hangar, I really like that.

 

Agreed, though I'd add that damage modelling (particularly structural damage modelling) is pretty far ahead of current DCS in that other game too. Mind you for us at least it's WIP, not sure what it'll entail though...

[Snappy]

Plus unfortunately, DCS lags badly behind in A.I. behavior too. Really hope this area gets a huge improvement soon , as it‘s really in a decrepit state.

 

Most of the competition is way ahead in that regard.

 

 

Snappy

[Northstar98]

Plus unfortunately, DCS lags badly behind in A.I. behavior too. Really hope this area gets a huge improvement soon , as it‘s really in a decrepit state.

 

Most of the competition is way ahead in that regard.

 

 

Snappy

 

Agreed, though personally I could live with the poor tactics if the FMs weren't alien.

[Pizzicato]

The absolute last thing that ED needs at the moment is yet another distracting thread of work to spread them even thinner and take them away from improving the core of the sim and finishing their existing modules.:doh:

[wizav]

WWI should stay AWAY from DCS

 

DCS should Focus on WWII, Cold War and 2005 Era...

 

EVEN THAT IS A STRETCH.

[CHSubZero]

+1 for at least one or two WWI planes

[Tom Kazansky]

+1 for at least one or two WWI planes

 

 

I see it that way, too. It would not mean ED has to focus on WW I like they don't focus on Corean or Vietnam wars and we already have more than 2 planes of that areas.

 

 

It should take way less effort to do a WW I module compared to a later one. Income per hours wouldn't be bad.

 

 

But if there are no SMEs it certainly will not be ED's way of doing things. Which is a good thing. But maybe some 3rd party has the passion and SMEs for WW I modules?

[Zius]

It should take way less effort to do a WW I module compared to a later one.

 

 

That's something I wonder about. You need to simulate wood flexing, wing warping, airframe overstressing, fabric ripping, guns jamming, leaking coolant fluid hitting the pilot, etc. I *think* these are all things that aren't in DCS at the moment. I don't know how hard it would be to implement it because I'm not familiar enough with DCS physics modelling.

[Coxy_99]

With new damage model why not but cant see it happening would be cool tho.

[Zius]

WWI should stay AWAY from DCS

 

DCS should Focus on WWII, Cold War and 2005 Era...

 

EVEN THAT IS A STRETCH.

 

 

That's why I'd advocate not trying to simulate WWI but instead just modelling a few aircraft which can be used in e.g. Normandy map in a sandbox manner.

[Svsmokey]

The camel's nose...then users would be demanding a map , ground assets , balloons , dirigibles , and so on and so on ad infinitum .

I have to say that flying WW1 aircraft in VR in that other sim is awesome though !

[Tom Kazansky]

That's something I wonder about. You need to simulate wood flexing, wing warping, airframe overstressing, fabric ripping, guns jamming, leaking coolant fluid hitting the pilot, etc. I *think* these are all things that aren't in DCS at the moment. I don't know how hard it would be to implement it because I'm not familiar enough with DCS physics modelling.

 

 

That's a valid point. Are there any WWI sims that have all those? I don't know. I'm just asking.

 

 

If WWI modules have to have all of that to have fun with em then I would agree that DCS should get to it in the far future.

[reece146]

You can see the wings on jets flex in DCS now so the basics may be there.

 

I don't know if this current functionality in DCS is just visual or if it models the change of angle of attack and wash out of the wing and control surfaces.

 

How does one go about getting access to the ED SDK to create modules?

[Zius]

That's a valid point. Are there any WWI sims that have all those? I don't know. I'm just asking.

 

If WWI modules have to have all of that to have fun with em then I would agree that DCS should get to it in the far future.

 

 

As far as I know, "the other sim" (let alone older sims) is based on parameters and not on actual physics modelling like DCS.

 

 

I think DCS is the only simulation platform that could theoretically do justice to WWI and other early aircraft.

 

 

Maybe some things what I mentioned are more important and/or easier to model than others. I think wing warping is a very important aspect that was already introduced to DCS (but I'm not sure how DCS handles it from a computational fluid dynamics perspective). The physics of rotary engines is another very important aspect that is already modelled in DCS. Damage modelling of wood and fabric is also important for some WW2 aircraft (Mosquito) so it is definately coming to DCS.