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ILS issues - Al Dhafra AB


breakneckPace
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Hi, I just wanted to check to see if anyone else was having an issue entering the ILS frequency for Al Dhafra air base on the DED? I go to try to enter the data for for the runway and the ILS frequency of 111.20 (I forget which runway number this is at the moment), which SHOULD be within the limits of the f-16. (it goes up to 111.95mHZ I believe, according to the DCS documentation) when I hit enter though, I just get flashing numbers like something was entered incorrectly and the system doesn't let me enter it. Has anyone been able to enter this ILS successfully? or is it a bug that needs to be fixed? or am I just doing something wrong? is it a different type of ILS that isn't compatible with the f-16? thanks for the help

 

 

(currently running the latest Beta version if that helps any too)

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TL;DR:

 

Al Dhafra's ILS frequencies aren't valid and are bugged.

 

Detail:

 

Hi, I just wanted to check to see if anyone else was having an issue entering the ILS frequency for Al Dhafra air base on the DED? I go to try to enter the data for for the runway and the ILS frequency of 111.20, which SHOULD be within the limits of the f-16.

 

RWY 31R 111.20 MHz isn't a valid ILS frequency, the 100kHz part is always an uneven number i.e. .1, .3, .5, etc.

 

when I hit enter though, I just get flashing numbers like something was entered incorrectly and the system doesn't let me enter it.

It looks like the frequency is being rejected as invalid (which it is).

 

Has anyone been able to enter this ILS successfully?

AFAIK it's not working with any module.

... or is it a bug that needs to be fixed?

It looks like a bug, I'm not even sure if Al Dhafra has an ILS in real life and DCS didn't in 2.5.5.

 

... is it a different type of ILS that isn't compatible with the f-16?

Similarly Al Dhafra's RWY 13L 'ILS' frequency @ 114.90 MHz is the same as the VOR beacon and isn't valid as it's outside of the ILS frequency range. I'm not sure about the other ILS frequencies or what ED's intentions are for the PG map but it looks like a WIP beacons.lua was released by mistake.

i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 32GB DDR4, RTX2070 Super 8GB, 1TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 1+1TB SSD, MSFFB2 joystick, X52 Pro Throttle, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080

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  • 5 weeks later...

Accoring to ICAO Annex 10 the ILS localizers "...shall operate in the band of 108MHz to 111.975MHz". And "...frequency separation between the carriers shall not be less than 5 kHz

nor more than 14 kHz".

So alot of the ILS systems on this map are out of the frequency range. I don't have real world airport charts, but I highly doubt, that these frequencies are correct.

 

I can't find anything about the F-16s ILS system allowed frequencies.

 

Sad. I'd love to do some ILS training on the PG map with the Viper.


Edited by MadCat1381
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108-111.975 MHz is the whole band allocated for the localizer. When the ILS standard was first defined in Annex 10, there were just 20 channels, starting at 108.1 and continuing up to 111.9 in odd decimal intervals. Later on, the channel width was made narrower, allowing 20 new channels at f+50kHz.

 

 

The only invalid LOC frequencies in the PG map last time I checked was two runways at Al Dhafra and Bandar Abbas, so there are plenty of other runways where you can pratice ILS landings in the F-16.

 

 

 

The frequency separation between carriers that you quote isn't really relevant. It relates to the spacing between the course (COU) and clearence (CLR) signals for dual frequncy localizers. In a dual frequency LOC, in addition to the main fan-shaped beam (COU, approx ±10° width) radiating from the loc array, you also have a CLR signal (±35° width, with a null at the center), whose only purpose is to give a full right or left deflection in the CDI when you are outside, but near, the coverage area of the COU signal. The frequencies are offset far enough apart to avoid any intermodulation problems between the two carriers, while still still remaining inside the channel width of the receiver.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I hope it would be adressed. Made a mission with a little Sandstorm enviroment tried to land via ILS which was simply impossible. When i used TACAN i was at least able to find a Runway and land....

 

There are ILS Frequencies in the Map which you can actually enter but they are bugged and lead you somewhere between the Runways and stuff....

 

Steps to Reproduce are simple. Enter one of the provided Frequencies from the Map and then try to land via ILS.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Short summary of this issue:

 

1. ILS 13L MMA = incorrect ME frequency (109.10), correct in-game frequency (111.10), appears to be slightly offset (incorrect position/direction?)

 

2. ILS 31R IMA = incorrect ME frequency (111.10), correct in-game frequency (109.10), correct placement.

 

3. ILS 13R RMA 108.70 = correct frequency, never activated in-game.

 

4. ILS 31L LMA 114.90 = incorrect frequency (114.90, but should also be 108.70), not working at all.


Edited by Minsky

- Dmitriy

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  • 5 months later...

@esequiel What was the wind strength and direction, there is a long standing 2.5.x issue with ATC Active and ILS runways desyncing for light headwinds (1-6 kts) ?

i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 32GB DDR4, RTX2070 Super 8GB, 1TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 1+1TB SSD, MSFFB2 joystick, X52 Pro Throttle, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/15/2021 at 5:05 AM, esequiel said:

There is another problem, the frequencies are inverted ! When the 31R is active (IA take off and land from/to the 31R) the 13L ILS is activated...

This issue is still present in 2.7. Is anyone at ED looking at this?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dhafra ILS frequencys are corretly shown in editor. NOT in F10 map info when Dhafra selected!!!

In MSN Editor, there we also missing important info, that ILS 31L is actulay on BACK COURSE of ILS 13R (localizer only, no glideslope).


I checked the uncrypted part of PG map scrypt Beacons.Lua to check this issue. So again, ED hello!,... you didnt reacted to this problem, but somebody must have done it for you, by reading uncrypted LUA file!!!

DHAFRA_ILS.png


Edited by GumidekCZ
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Hello ED & NL and BN,
Very often ED is wondering why the community is more less unhappy (that's the weak word) about DCS bugs and how ED is working on debugging of any modules present in game.
Look here at this Dhafra ILS report, now MORE than a YEAR without any notice by forum Admins or ED devs,
People paid their money (sometimes hard earned) for your product which is still partialy broken, with not a sign of any notice even if reported by the community. Will not discuss here role of ED of using its own paid people to get rid of bugs like this one - which is more and more questionable with every stupid bug appearing in game:
It really feels like NO-body cares about some modules with ED "Low" priority, even if ED say that's not like it is.
Edit: this post is not about spreading toxicity, but about commenting things how they are now. No offence to anyone.


Edited by GumidekCZ
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