New Reverb VR user with questions

[BMGZ06]

I just got the Reverbs today and tried them out. First setup was fast and easy. DCS started up fine and was in the f18 and seemed ok. Then i started getting jitters and looking to the side buildings and cars looked like thy were vibrating. I went back into Steam VR settings and turned on smoothing and reprojection and then because the in cockpit view seemed a bit out of center I re-centered in WMR first. I went back in and then the view was like I was standing on the seat. I saw how to recenter in game but now no matter what I do the position is just too far back from the dash and I have to lean in to read stuff so it is clearer. How can I set these up

for the proper seating distance and height in cockpit? Every time I go to WMR to recalibrate things just get worse in DCS.

 

I saw that the Frametimes are in the 19+ range and even with my system I am only getting 45 fps or so with no in game MSAA or Super sampling on. I have MSAA turned on in nvidia control panel.

 

I can also see the screen door effect rather easily so I am not sure why so many reviewers said they really can not see it anymore.

 

To boot I am also getting motion sickness which sucks. How are people dealing with that?

 

I did also get a brand new pair of Reverbs that came out of the box with one of the earphones already broken off. The little stud in the earpiece is just gone. Amazon doesn't have another pair to replace them with if I return them right now. I would be forced to pay more from a third party and wait a week to get them. I am using my own headphones though.

 

I searched for settings on these and there are different opinions on how to go about it.

 

I have IPD set at what it came defaulted to in windows at 63.5 and also left it at the same value in DCS. Everything is blurry off center for sure. Only what is dead center is clear.

[zafgev]

I just got the Reverbs today and tried them out. First setup was fast and easy. DCS started up fine and was in the f18 and seemed ok. Then i started getting jitters and looking to the side buildings and cars looked like thy were vibrating. I went back into Steam VR settings and turned on smoothing and reprojection and then because the in cockpit view seemed a bit out of center I re-centered in WMR first. I went back in and then the view was like I was standing on the seat. I saw how to recenter in game but now no matter what I do the position is just too far back from the dash and I have to lean in to read stuff so it is clearer. How can I set these up

for the proper seating distance and height in cockpit? Every time I go to WMR to recalibrate things just get worse in DCS.

 

I saw that the Frametimes are in the 19+ range and even with my system I am only getting 45 fps or so with no in game MSAA or Super sampling on. I have MSAA turned on in nvidia control panel.

 

I can also see the screen door effect rather easily so I am not sure why so many reviewers said they really can not see it anymore.

 

To boot I am also getting motion sickness which sucks. How are people dealing with that?

 

I did also get a brand new pair of Reverbs that came out of the box with one of the earphones already broken off. The little stud in the earpiece is just gone. Amazon doesn't have another pair to replace them with if I return them right now. I would be forced to pay more from a third party and wait a week to get them. I am using my own headphones though.

 

I searched for settings on these and there are different opinions on how to go about it.

 

I have IPD set at what it came defaulted to in windows at 63.5 and also left it at the same value in DCS. Everything is blurry off center for sure. Only what is dead center is clear.

 

1) Calibrate your room using WMR. Depending on the direction your headset is set to when you start-up the SteamVR plugin, that is what will set the "forward" or direction view for SteamVR - on my setup, this is usually never right in front of me or pointing exactly at my monitor. In cockpit set up a button to recenter your VR view (in DCS there is an option under "general controls". Pressing this should recenter the cockpit in the direction of whichever way you are looking with your headset on. If its slightly to far back, forward etc you can fine-tune that using Right ALT + numeric keypad keys and +*- to move the head position as you need it. To lock that position press Right ALT + numeric keypad 0.

 

2) Cant help you with framerate - many posts online for tuning that.

 

3) The Reverb screendoor is 100 times better than older headsets so most comments of seeing "nothing" come from people who used to see chicken wire on older units. Yeah it still there but hardly noticeable compared to the Vive or DK1/2.

 

4) You will most likely get motion sickness at first - fly a lot and you will get used to it - happens to the best of us

 

5) Yeah Reverb has a very very small sweet spot where things are clear and get blurry quickly outside of that sweet spot

[BMGZ06]

1) Calibrate your room using WMR. Depending on the direction your headset is set to when you start-up the SteamVR plugin, that is what will set the "forward" or direction view for SteamVR - on my setup, this is usually never right in front of me or pointing exactly at my monitor. In cockpit set up a button to recenter your VR view (in DCS there is an option under "general controls". Pressing this should recenter the cockpit in the direction of whichever way you are looking with your headset on. If its slightly to far back, forward etc you can fine-tune that using Right ALT + numeric keypad keys and +*- to move the head position as you need it. To lock that position press Right ALT + numeric keypad 0.

 

2) Cant help you with framerate - many posts online for tuning that.

 

3) The Reverb screendoor is 100 times better than older headsets so most comments of seeing "nothing" come from people who used to see chicken wire on older units. Yeah it still there but hardly noticeable compared to the Vive or DK1/2.

 

4) You will most likely get motion sickness at first - fly a lot and you will get used to it - happens to the best of us

 

5) Yeah Reverb has a very very small sweet spot where things are clear and get blurry quickly outside of that sweet spot

 

 

Awesome thanks for the info. I will try your suggestions. I have also messed around with the resolution scale in Steam VR and moved it up to 180% and it doesn't seem to much of anything. DCS has to be running in order to change the resolution or motion smoothing for it for some reason. Not sure if doing it in Steam VR default applications will extend to DCS at all.

 

One other thing I noticed is that the image flickers if I lean too far forward to better read dashboard. Not sure if this is the cord moving and it loosing good connection to the headset

 

Ya as far as the SDE goes it is not horrible but I am having issues with the shimmer and jittery nature of scenery messing with my eyes.

Edited March 4, 2020 by BMGZ06

[eaglecash867]

Awesome thanks for the info. I will try your suggestions. I have also messed around with the resolution scale in Steam VR and moved it up to 180% and it doesn't seem to much of anything. DCS has to be running in order to change the resolution or motion smoothing for it for some reason. Not sure if doing it in Steam VR default applications will extend to DCS at all.

 

One other thing I noticed is that the image flickers if I lean too far forward to better read dashboard. Not sure if this is the cord moving and it loosing good connection to the headset

 

Ya as far as the SDE goes it is not horrible but I am having issues with the shimmer and jittery nature of scenery messing with my eyes.

 

Motion smoothing in the SteamVR menu doesn't work with WMR headsets like the Reverb. In order to enable the WMR equivalent, which is known as Motion Reprojection, take a look at this link from Microsoft.

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/enthusiast-guide/using-steamvr-with-windows-mixed-reality

[BMGZ06]

Motion smoothing in the SteamVR menu doesn't work with WMR headsets like the Reverb. In order to enable the WMR equivalent, which is known as Motion Reprojection, take a look at this link from Microsoft.

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/enthusiast-guide/using-steamvr-with-windows-mixed-reality

 

Have you had any issues with your reverbs and head movement causing screen flicker or quick freezes? I am likely going to send mine back for the busted earpiece and this screen flickering issues when moving my head at random times. seems to be from the cable since if I move it with my hand it will do the same thing. I know from reddit posts a lot of others are still ahving these issues. It looks like HP is just a terrible company at QC.

[Dunx]

Have you had any issues with your reverbs and head movement causing screen flicker or quick freezes? I am likely going to send mine back for the busted earpiece and this screen flickering issues when moving my head at random times. seems to be from the cable since if I move it with my hand it will do the same thing. I know from reddit posts a lot of others are still ahving these issues. It looks like HP is just a terrible company at QC.

 

I have similar problems during flight and especially when switching from F10 to cockpit view.

 

I think it is a tracking issue because I can simulate the same kind of flicker by covering both cameras with my hands. I don't think the camera sensors on the Reverb are suitable.

[rrohde]

Need some lights on and decent contrast for cameras to track well. Other than that, I have no issues with my Reverb.

[Harlikwin]

The primary mode of "tracking" for the WMR headsets is actually gyro's/accelerometers like you have on your cell phone. The cameras are there calibrate the reference and help with things like lateral movement. You can cover the cameras entirely and it will still work (not as well though).

 

What will help are Bright lights, and a high contrast environment. If the wall in front of you or to the side is featureless, put up some sticky notes or something for the cameras to "track".

[BMGZ06]

The primary mode of "tracking" for the WMR headsets is actually gyro's/accelerometers like you have on your cell phone. The cameras are there calibrate the reference and help with things like lateral movement. You can cover the cameras entirely and it will still work (not as well though).

 

What will help are Bright lights, and a high contrast environment. If the wall in front of you or to the side is featureless, put up some sticky notes or something for the cameras to "track".

 

Thanks for the info on the contrast environment. Yes my walls a re whiter and more bland than Bernie Sanders

[Harlikwin]

Thanks for the info on the contrast environment. Yes my walls a re whiter and more bland than Bernie Sanders

 

LOL...

 

Yeah put up some "art" or sticky notes at least for the headset to find something to track.

[M1Combat]

What happens if your monitor is right in front of where you sit? Will the tracking be freaked out by the movement of the image on screen?

[BMGZ06]

LOL...

 

Yeah put up some "art" or sticky notes at least for the headset to find something to track.

 

No idea what happened but I went to edit the settings file for WMR to turn on reprojection and then adjusted the resolution in steam to the native res of the headset per Thuds instruction and now my frametimes are jumping well into the red into the high 20 and 30's. last night they were in the low teens to mid teens. I tried to set everything back and reduce and increase res in steam vr along with turning off reprojection again and noting helps. Still high frametimes. I even turned off MSAA Super sampling in game.

[BMGZ06]

I have been at this for awhile and I can not get my fps back even uninstalling steam vr and WMR and all the subfolders. Turning reprojection off in the in the settings folder and my FPS is still capped below 50fps where as last night it was getting 90+ in most circumstances with low frametimes. I also had the resolution scale in steam turned up to 180%. I am lost with this now. There are a lot of areas where the frame times jump wildly up near an airfield or over densely populated areas with cars and building etc. It can stay int eh mid to high teens frame times at higher altitudes. The reprojection indicator was light blue and dark blue the entire time but I fail to see how my system is both gpu and cpu bound now.

 

My PC should have no issues running this HMD. It had no issues with FPS last night for some reason.

Edited March 5, 2020 by BMGZ06

[Notso]

I have been at this for awhile and I can not get my fps back even uninstalling steam vr and WMR and all the subfolders. Turning reprojection off in the in the settings folder and my FPS is still capped below 50fps where as last night it was getting 90+ in most circumstances with low frametimes. I also had the resolution scale in steam turned up to 180%. I am lost with this now. There are a lot of areas where the frame times jump wildly up near an airfield or over densely populated areas with cars and building etc. It can stay int eh mid to high teens frame times at higher altitudes. The reprojection indicator was light blue and dark blue the entire time but I fail to see how my system is both gpu and cpu bound now.

 

My PC should have no issues running this HMD. It had no issues with FPS last night for some reason.

 

I'm not sure what's going on. I am running a similar system to yours AND I just upgraded to 2.5.6 and my reverb seems to be fine. 2.5.6 is certainly not as smooth as the 2.5.5 stable I was running before, but its not bad. I'm running everything High on the DCS settings, shadows flat, MSAA off, etc. I have the PD set to 1.0 and the native resolution in WMR and Steam set to 100%. I don't have the ability to get any screenshots of my settings at the moment, but I can later on if required.

 

I followed Thud's VR4DCS tutorial pretty closely, including the youtube on speeding up the general system. This one really seemed to help my overall system performance:

 

Also the discussion in another thread from @Stuartaston was enlightening on system settings.

[CaptainX]

I have been at this for awhile and I can not get my fps back even uninstalling steam vr and WMR and all the subfolders. Turning reprojection off in the in the settings folder and my FPS is still capped below 50fps where as last night it was getting 90+ in most circumstances with low frametimes. I also had the resolution scale in steam turned up to 180%. I am lost with this now. There are a lot of areas where the frame times jump wildly up near an airfield or over densely populated areas with cars and building etc. It can stay int eh mid to high teens frame times at higher altitudes. The reprojection indicator was light blue and dark blue the entire time but I fail to see how my system is both gpu and cpu bound now.

 

My PC should have no issues running this HMD. It had no issues with FPS last night for some reason.

Did you clear DC's cache/fxo files?

[BMGZ06]

I'm not sure what's going on. I am running a similar system to yours AND I just upgraded to 2.5.6 and my reverb seems to be fine. 2.5.6 is certainly not as smooth as the 2.5.5 stable I was running before, but its not bad. I'm running everything High on the DCS settings, shadows flat, MSAA off, etc. I have the PD set to 1.0 and the native resolution in WMR and Steam set to 100%. I don't have the ability to get any screenshots of my settings at the moment, but I can later on if required.

 

I followed Thud's VR4DCS tutorial pretty closely, including the youtube on speeding up the general system. This one really seemed to help my overall system performance:

 

Also the discussion in another thread from @Stuartaston was enlightening on system settings.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. Ya I messed with the settings today again. I made another thread in this forum where I have screenshots of FPSvr and how my reported resolution was really high by default. Now it has gotten better since I adjusted it with FPSvr but i still do get random frametime spikes in certain instances over trees or dense building areas. My fps went back up to over 60 to 70 with resolution scale to normal native resolution level. There was some funky things going on where steamvr reported 100% res scale to be 2708 x 2668 or so. Everyone elses I saw was 2208 x2166 I think. Now mine reports that same level as 100%.

 

Did you clear DC's cache/fxo files?

 

I did go in and clear out FXO and Metashaders folders yes. Didnt seem to do anything. The scaling was all off in settings for some reason as I state above. Things are still not 100% smooth.

 

 

I may try to turn on reprojection again to see how it goes.

 

If any of you fly in multiplayer servers that may be able to give me more info let me know. I need some help learning the F18 and F14 also. I am struggling. My landings are about as ugly as they come. I couldn't get aboard a carrier even if Megan Fox was waiting there with her legs spread.

[speed-of-heat]

Reprojection will lock your frame rates at either 90 or 45 or below 45, but it should be pretty smooth 45 on your hardware.

Edited March 7, 2020 by speed-of-heat

[Notso]

Reprojection will lock your frame rates at either 90 or 45 or below 45, but it should be pretty smooth 45 on your hardware.

 

So is reprojection ON or OFF recommended for VR with the Reverb? What does it actually do?

 

And just to be clear since I'm not tech savvy.... there is no on or off button for reprojection, right? It can only be changed by editing the settings code? I cringe whenever I have to go in and edit stuff like that because I don't want to screw something up in the rest of the code.

[Baldrick33]

So is reprojection ON or OFF recommended for VR with the Reverb? What does it actually do?

 

And just to be clear since I'm not tech savvy.... there is no on or off button for reprojection, right? It can only be changed by editing the settings code? I cringe whenever I have to go in and edit stuff like that because I don't want to screw something up in the rest of the code.

For me reprojection is essential in DCS. Anything that regularly drops below 90fps becomes very jerky without it and DCS is regularly below 90fps for me.

[speed-of-heat]

So is reprojection ON or OFF recommended for VR with the Reverb? What does it actually do?

 

And just to be clear since I'm not tech savvy.... there is no on or off button for reprojection, right? It can only be changed by editing the settings code? I cringe whenever I have to go in and edit stuff like that because I don't want to screw something up in the rest of the code.

 

Unless you are running a magic super computer; i would recommend it be left on.

 

There is no magic switch you have to edit default.vrsettings with notepad ++

 

{
   "driver_Holographic" : {
   },
   "driver_Holographic_Experimental": {
       // Motion reprojection doubles framerate through motion vector extrapolation 
       //     motionvector = force application to always run at half framerate with motion vector reprojection
       //     auto         = automatically use motion reprojection when the application can not maintain native framerate
       [color="Magenta"]"motionReprojectionMode" : "auto",[/color]

       // Automatic motion reprojection indicator to display the mode currently selected
       //     green      = off because application can render at full framerate
       //     light blue = on because application is cpu bound
       //     dark blue  = on because application is gpu bound
       //     red        = off because application running at less than half framerate
       // "motionReprojectionIndicatorEnabled" : true,

       // Motion indicator size and position in 0-1 space
       "motionReprojectionIndicatorSize": 0.015,
       "motionReprojectionIndicatorXPosition": 0.3125,
       "motionReprojectionIndicatorYPosition": 0.3125,

       // Some people may experience increased discomfort such as nausea, motion sickness, dizziness,
       // disorientation, headache, fatigue, or eye strain when using thumbstick controls in Windows Mixed Reality.
       //
       // Setting thumbstickControlsMoveEnabled to true may cause application compatibility issues
       "thumbstickControlsTurnEnabled": false, // true = use thumbsticks for artificial turn, false = default application thumbstick behavior
       "thumbstickControlsMoveEnabled": false, // true = use thumbsticks for artificial move, false = default application thumbstick behavior
       "thumbstickControlsReversed": false,
       "thumbstickTurnSmooth": false,
       "thumbstickDeadzone": 0.25,
       "thumbstickUseForSystemMenu": true,

       // During some transitions (typically entering Home), controller events start accumulate and the system has difficulties to catch up
       // Settings a mximum age for a contoller input allows ensuring that the events queue does not grow indefinitely
       "obsoleteStateMaxTimeInSeconds": 1.0,

       // Disable DX12 support
       "forceDisableDX12": false,

       // Feature still in development
       "enableSkeletalInput":  true
   },
   "NoInterEyeRotation" : {
       "battlezone_dx11.exe" : true,
       "battlezone_dx12.exe" : true,
       "DOOMVFRx64.exe" : true,
       "Fallout4VR.exe" : true
   }
}

 

simply it helps your computer when you can't quite make 90FPS, by "guessing" every other frame, so you generate 45 fps, but it will be very smooth at 45fps, sometimes you will get some graphical artifacts, like a blurring or flickering of an object as a result.

[Gunnars Driver]

So is reprojection ON or OFF recommended for VR with the Reverb? What does it actually do?

 

It might be a question of how your system works but I would say defenetive "yes, recommended".

 

Reprojection for windows mixed reality (and Reverb) uses 45 frames per second. Each frame is used twice and the second of each frame is extrapolated by motionvectors. Ie, the system reuses the frame but changes the position of the frame depending on the Pictures movement( movng ground+ head movement).

 

When motion reprojection is enabled, all Steam VR games will render nominally at ½ frame rate (45 fps instead of 90 FPS) while Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR uses motion vectors generated by the GPU to extrapolate the next frame. For SteamVR games that reliably hit 60 FPS+ on a given PC, this should result in a solid 90 FPS experience with occasional artifacts while maintaining a comfortable experience.

When motionReprojectionMode is set to "auto", motion reprojection will turn on automatically when a game is rendering too slowly to maintain 90 FPS. When a game begins to maintain 90 FPS or starts rendering at less than 45 FPS, motion reprojection will turn off. Asynchronous rotational reprojection is enabled at all times.

 

I also have the Oculus Rift since more than 3 years. My experience from the Oculus and reprojection (called ASW by oculus) is that is is quite prone to double pictures(Ghosting where the reprojected Picture isnt in the right Place).

With the Reverb, for me this is not an issue. I have seen ghosting but it has been very rare.

 

I use reprojection in auto and for me its very good. If I play with it off, the gaming isnt smooth and I experience stuttering when below 90fps.

First DCS flight with reverb was a chocking expericence due to the stutter. After 3 minutes of flight I enabled reprojection in auto and this fixed the issue, again in chock(positive) due to the very smooth gaming, without any ghosting seen.

[GunSlingerAUS]

Sorry mate, but performance sucks on the Reverb, despite what others may claim on here. Bummer to see you're the latest one to listen to them.

[sirrah]

Sorry mate, but performance sucks on the Reverb, despite what others may claim on here. Bummer to see you're the latest one to listen to them.

 

Still here GunSlingerAUS? You just can't resist, can you? :dontgetit:

 

@BMGZ06; Don't pay too much attention to this negativity.. Of course performance could always be better, but saying "performance on the Reverb sucks" is just plain nonsens. All HMD users are trying to find the best balance between performance and graphics, from those with a CV1 to those with an XTAL. It's part of the fun to find that balance and help each other find it.

[=37.Sqn= Mjugen]

Sorry mate, but performance sucks on the Reverb, despite what others may claim on here. Bummer to see you're the latest one to listen to them.

shut up already

[BMGZ06]

Still here GunSlingerAUS? You just can't resist, can you? :dontgetit:

 

@BMGZ06; Don't pay too much attention to this negativity.. Of course performance could always be better, but saying "performance on the Reverb sucks" is just plain nonsens. All HMD users are trying to find the best balance between performance and graphics, from those with a CV1 to those with an XTAL. It's part of the fun to find that balance and help each other find it.

 

I don't no worries. I have been been able to get the Reverbs running pretty well now with a few simple tweaks. Most of the time it is solid 45fps with reporjection unless there are more than 3 or so planes flying in a dogfight around me. That has do with optimization since others with Rifts and Index's say it happens to them as well. I will take the higher fidelity with a lower average FPS over higher FPS low fidelity headsets any day.