Dropping LGBs in CCIP?

[Gianky]

Hey guys!

 

Is it possible at the moment to drop LGBs in CCIP? When I select it, the TGP is slaved to the pipper and I didn't find any way to "un-slave" it...

 

So, is it possible, or CCRP is the only way to drop LGBs?

[timber29]

Hey guys!

 

Is it possible at the moment to drop LGBs in CCIP? When I select it, the TGP is slaved to the pipper and I didn't find any way to "un-slave" it...

 

So, is it possible, or CCRP is the only way to drop LGBs?

 

 

The short answer is no. You should be dropping LGB in CCRP mode.

[Tholozor]

The long answer is yes, but you'd have to increase workload in order to make it feasible. First you'd have to find the target in CCRP mode, switch to CCIP, drop the bomb, switch back to CCRP to get the TGP back on target, then lase (which hopefully there's enough time to do so given the reduced TOF/TTI).

[Emmy]

How about if a wingman, JTAC or FAC(A) is lasing?

 

You can drop LGBs just like normal dumb bombs. They will still go Boom!

[Mars Exulte]

How about if a wingman, JTAC or FAC(A) is lasing?

 

You can drop LGBs just like normal dumb bombs. They will still go Boom!

 

I'm pretty sure this is what he's asking. Trying to drop then laze or blah blah would just be stupidly unnecessary. More reasonable he's asking if possible to just do a straight drop with them. In principle, it should be possible, but you'd probably need to manually select hardpoints or use a backup bombsight mode.

 

Afterall, besides the possibility of wanting to bomb conventionally due to perhaps no time for a proper lase, what if conditions are not conducive, or perhaps your TGP is damaged/failed? It would be stupid NOT to have a plan B method to put warheads on foreheads somehow.

 

Now, that's not to say the feature is ingame yet, considering the dev status of the Viper. The Harrier has some backup modes, but I never tried to use them to dumb drop a LGB yet, though now I'm curious enough to try =)

Edited March 4, 2020 by zhukov032186

[Creature_1stVFW]

Yes, you can drop a LGB, in CCIP. You don’t have to lase the target if you know where it is. Put the pipper on the target and drop just like a dumb bomb.

[Deano87]

Yes, you can drop a LGB, in CCIP. You don’t have to lase the target if you know where it is. Put the pipper on the target and drop just like a dumb bomb.

 

Kinda defeats the point of a precision guided munition...

 

I'm not actually sure why you'd want to drop a LGB in CCIP mode. CCRP mode allows you to fly the exact same flight profile and it will release at the perfect moment to hit the target.

[Robin885]

Because it's a faster delivery method in case things really suck on the ground. It is totally feasible, and I've witnessed in video spanish Hornets doing it. So why not

[Deano87]

Because it's a faster delivery method in case things really suck on the ground. It is totally feasible, and I've witnessed in video spanish Hornets doing it. So why not

 

Yeah but we’re they self lasing? If you’re self lasing then by definition you already have a target track before you release then bomb. So in that situation CCIP is no faster. If you’re buddy lasing or JTAC then CCIP makes sense, and you can already do that with the viper in DCS.

[Frederf]

Kinda defeats the point of a precision guided munition.

The question is "is it possible to do this?" Your reply is "that's not a good idea ."

I hope you can see how unrelated those are.

 

 

 

What I am not entirely sure of is if it's possible to have TGP tracking independently while attempting CCIP in the real airplane. I think it is but often the TGP is used slaved to the CCIP LOS for ranging purposes.

[Deano87]

The question is "is it possible to do this?" Your reply is "that's not a good idea ."

I hope you can see how unrelated those are.

 

 

 

What I am not entirely sure of is if it's possible to have TGP tracking independently while attempting CCIP in the real airplane. I think it is but often the TGP is used slaved to the CCIP LOS for ranging purposes.

 

Its obvious from the OP that he's talking about dropping LGBs in CCIP while self lasing... Not dropping them as dumb bombs as Creature_1stVFW is suggesting.

[Creature_1stVFW]

I’m just saying that you can drop them using CCIP. If your TGP goes tango, that’s the method ur going to use.

[doedkoett]

I have used CCIP when being assisted by a buddy who does the lasing. My team mate finds a target, gives me the location, I put the pipper on the target/general area and pickle. It is even possible to do it in level flight at altitude using whatever it´s called, where the pipper is visible when it should really be far below the HUD, and you hold the pickle button until the bomb is released automatically.

So yes, CCIP is possible and a valid way to use LGB´s. :-)

[Eddie]

CCIP dive delivery of LGBs is a valid technique and depending on the desired weapon effects is performed in reality, although usually with designation done by a supporting aircraft/JTAC. Depending on the desired weapon impact angle/airspeed CCIP (or CCRP, the aiming method and delivery method are not linked as closely as many simmers assume) dive may be the optimum delivery so it’s certainly something that is/should be possible.

[Fri13]

You have team lasing the target, you come fast and low, quick pop being the hill and drop bombs on the general target at high speed, quickly away from area.

 

For a self lazing, that is possible when TGP put to coordinates and ready to fire when you pop up.

 

So it would be easy (if would work) that you pop up, fire laser, put CCIP on TGP diamond on HUD, bombs away, keep strafing over.

 

But then again, CCRP does already that.... So no point.

[Deano87]

For a self lazing, that is possible when TGP put to coordinates and ready to fire when you pop up.

 

So it would be easy (if would work) that you pop up, fire laser, put CCIP on TGP diamond on HUD, bombs away, keep strafing over.

 

But then again, CCRP does already that.... So no point.

 

Buuuut, you can't currently point the TGP when in CCIP mode. Its slaved to the CCIP pipper.

[RPY Variable]

In my case, I wanted to drop the bomb before the ccrp, so I tried to use the "manual" mode but it seems that it is not working at the moment. But maybee that is what you are looking for.

[Cupra]

Does the question mean to drop a Mk82/84 with GBU parts without using laser guideance or not? So, just use it as a normal Mk82... should be possibile without any problem. If your TGP fails, you still should be able to use the weapon as dumb bomb... maybe a litte expensive one.. but it still should work.

[Gianky]

Hey guys!

 

First of all, thank you all for your replies, and sorry if I didn't show up sooner, it's been a busy week.

 

As for the topic of this thread, as Deano correctly said, I wanted to know if I can deliver LGBs in CCIP while self-lasing, as I'm used to do in the Hornet.

 

I prefer to drop in CCIP because I can do it further away from the target and avoid getting close to it at all, while on CCRP/AUTO you have to fly straight to the target and the system allows you to release the ordnance only close to the target, so that most of the time you fly nearby or have to overfly it. Also, dropping in CCIP, with the Bug, I can "save" some bad pass, diving in on the target and lasing while I climb out and away.

 

With the Viper, all of the above seems to be impossible, since, as said, when in CCIP the Litening is slaved to the pipper and there seems to be no way to decouple it.

 

Of course, I could just release the bombs in CCRP, but it forces me to get closer to the target and lately after I overfly the target or pass by it, when the Litening camera rolls to track the target, it begins bouncing around and loses contact and the bombs go awry.

 

I noticed it in the third mission of the Arab Spring campaign, dropped 6 GBUs, only 2 hit the target, the rest of them fell away because the Litening would lose the target after swivelling back. If I could drop in CCIP, I could keep the target in front of me and painting it with the laser till impact.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, maybe it's just a bug of the Litening, maybe you guys can tell me how to work around it.

[Notso]

Kinda defeats the point of a precision guided munition...

 

I'm not actually sure why you'd want to drop a LGB in CCIP mode. CCRP mode allows you to fly the exact same flight profile and it will release at the perfect moment to hit the target.

 

Yes it can be done and is a viable method of LGB delivery IRL. Its not often used but aircrew do practice the technique. Here's a scenario where it would likely be used: You're flying a wheel above a target area and you see something down on the ground that meets the ROE. But you have no coordinates to get the TGP onto it. Rather than slewing the pod around hoping to find it, you roll in in CCIP with the Pod slaved to the pipper with the laser already firing, pickle on the target, execute a safe escape maneuver while keeping the crosshairs on the target and KABOOM. Target is now pink mist. It's a much faster way of delivering LGBs on fleeting targets of opportunity if time is a factor. It's absolutely doable, but it's a varsity move.

 

Having said that, in the current iteration of how the F-16 and Hornet are mechanized in DCS, this is a really difficult task and the DCS systems are not working correctly as they would be in the real aircraft. IRL, as soon as you pickle in CCIP with the TGP slaved to the Pipper - the TGP crosshair would then "stick" to the point on the ground where the pipper designated the target and would stay there during the jets post release maneuvering. The pilot would then hopefully only need to make small corrections of the crosshair during the TOF. I don't know exactly how the Hornet really works, but I assume this would also be the case. However, in DCS as someone said above - you would have to trick f*$k the HOTAS to switch back to CCRP or something after release to get TGP onto the target. So in DCS, I would say not to bother unless you just want to play around with it for shiggles.

[Gianky]

Having said that, in the current iteration of how the F-16 and Hornet are mechanized in DCS, this is a really difficult task and the DCS systems are not working correctly as they would be in the real aircraft. IRL, as soon as you pickle in CCIP with the TGP slaved to the Pipper - the TGP crosshair would then "stick" to the point on the ground where the pipper designated the target and would stay there during the jets post release maneuvering. The pilot would then hopefully only need to make small corrections of the crosshair during the TOF. I don't know exactly how the Hornet really works, but I assume this would also be the case. However, in DCS as someone said above - you would have to trick f*$k the HOTAS to switch back to CCRP or something after release to get TGP onto the target. So in DCS, I would say not to bother unless you just want to play around with it for shiggles.

 

Thanks Notso, let's hope ED will implement what you describe as soon as they can.

[Deano87]

I prefer to drop in CCIP because I can do it further away from the target and avoid getting close to it at all, while on CCRP/AUTO you have to fly straight to the target and the system allows you to release the ordnance only close to the target, so that most of the time you fly nearby or have to overfly it. Also, dropping in CCIP, with the Bug, I can "save" some bad pass, diving in on the target and lasing while I climb out and away.

 

Just because it’s CCRP doesn’t mean you have to just fly level towards the target. You can use CCRP in a dive and also for tossing bombs at targets from distance, in fact you can fly the exact same profile as you would with CCIP, only difference is that you need to know your impact point with the TGP before release. Keep an eye on seconds to release in the bottom right of the HUD to get an idea how close you are to the release window.

[Gianky]

Hey guys,

 

I keep having trouble with the Litening not tracking targets... not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or if there's something wrong with the pod after the last updates.

 

Basically, I go in CCRP mode, I find the target on the tgp, go to point track, lock the target, fly level at it, waiting for the cue to drop down to the flightpath marker, hold the weapon release button until the bomb drops, then fire the laser (the code is correct).

At that point, I turn left to keep the target into the pod field of view, then back onto a course parallel to the one I was on before; unavoidably, everytime the target reach my 3 o'clock and goes past, the Litening head swivel back and loses track of it.

 

So, am I doing something wrong, or is there something wrong with the pod?

[Xavven]

@Gianky, assuming the Litening II pod is on your right hip, you should try flying straight and level or in a slight right turn after you drop your LGB. Turning left makes the angle worse for your TGP. If you are still having trouble, try flying at a higher altitude. 15,000 ft usually gives me plenty of time at quarter to half throttle for the bomb to hit its target before the TGP gets masked.

[Gianky]

Hey Xavven!

 

Yeah, the pod is on the right HP. Honestly, I think I already tried every possible flight path, but I'll try again and do what you said.

 

If I keep having problems, I'll set up a quick mission so that I can record a short track you guys can see, Arab Spring n. 3 is too long to record a track of it.