[REPORTED]VR Performance OB 2.5.6

[Eldur]

The team are investigating as mentioned, the lighting may not be the problem, I only mentioned it as it was a significant change from 2.5.5

 

I don't think that the lighting causes the issue as seemingly only the VR performance went to the drink. I haven't actually flown in pancake mode, but sitting at the airfield I've seen no significant fps differences between 2.5.5 and 2.5.6 there. But in VR, the rates are cut in half at least as opposed to 2.5.5.

 

But I keep my hopes up and patiently wait until the team gets things running smooth again.

 

 

 

Sims like FSX and IL-2 Clifs Of Dover where simply almost unplayable at anything then low setting when they were released.

 

I can't speak for CoD since I wouldn't touch that one again until they finally manage to make it FFB-compatible (so that thing simply is out of the race to this very day), but FSX still doesn't run on other than the lowest settings on top notch systems of today, almost 15 years after the release. And it never will. You can run it on a rig from 100 years in the future and still have under 20fps max. It's just some piece of software with only a single use: disregard.

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Eldur

[Shuenix]

This is not simply a VR problem either. Performance is worse for us 2D players as well.

 

Yes :thumbup:

[Gryzor]

Seriously ED: look VR implementation from other IIWW sim from "the other company", and take it as a example or a point of reference (in VR, I´m referring, not other things); The VR implementation/improvements was not abandoned..., just the opposite: huge improvement in clarity of terrain and planes - sharpness tweaks that allows VR users to have great detail, not a blurry mess -, visibility of other planes (and sun reflections from distance, that helps awareness and dogfighting without "hacking labels" or mod label parameters, just we have to hack in DCS...), the improved lighting, the deferred texturing ALSO, even parallax occlusion.... those were SIGNIFICANT changes. All of them, with many types of shadows that doesn´t cut performance (even shadows that covers even individual trees, in VR).

 

That SIM improved a lot the past year. Even the helix-disc from 2WW planes is implement now without graphical glitches (they made a fix specific to VR, when ASW or motion smoothing quicks in). In DCS, IIGM planes like SPITFIRE due ASW in VR is nearly unplayable due the helix graphical glitches (and yes, it is the responsability of third parties, but is your base product, and you´re selling it). Those graphical improvements "from the other sim" are SIGNIFICANT changes... and most times, mantaining 90 fps during battles, without single digit less in performance. Not just a shader tweaking with incresed bloom and pallet colours, like in DCS, that bring many many glitches in 3D graphics. I´m sure that most of us are aware of those changes from "the other sim".

 

The only VR improvement in the past year: just a shader MOD by a forum user, a single persom did much more that a complete team of programmers and coders. Simply, that is not acceptable.

 

Summarizing the situation, in my historical simming experience: One yer ago, in 2018, the % of my SIM time were 90%DCS and only 10% the other sim / Now, in 2020, its just the opposite. Due gliches and fps, I only fly DCS just to test new beta and not much more. Take into account that in this community, many of us fly in VR, just because, like me, I´m sure that combat flight simulation is our PASSION since we were kids, and we want the best experience that could be achievable.

 

ED interest in VR community seems to me completely abandoned, I hope some inflexion point in the near future, please take this as a the only PRIORITY. If not, I´m sure I won´t buy no other modules from ED, saying in reddit that most fixes are delayed due the "spagetti code" is not a excuse. Its your product that you´re selling, its your responsability. This is the last time for me.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Gryzor

[TOViper]

Since I started using 2.5.6. a few days ago, I made some steps forward.

 

What I did:

.) Update to Windows 10 pro (yes ... I know, but it was for free, so I gave it a try).

.) Update Oculus Rift CV1 Software

.) Some little changes to my DCS configuration

 

Now, generally speaking, and this counts for my computer configuration, shadows are the killer.

I have never used ground shadows since I own DCS, but now the object shadows are frame eater like hell. I turned them OFF, and now everything is good again (more or less ...).

During the time I had shadows set to ON, it resulted in having 15 frames. Funny part: the graphics card was working at 50%, and the processors at 40%. So the "lags" are obviously produced by calculating shadows in a - now - very inefficient way.

 

I have now stable 45 during most periods of flying, even on my big MP mission I am playing all the time with a friend. The rest of the feeling for "90 Hz" is done by ASW, that kicks in in Windows 10.

 

All in all, the rendering is not as exact than in W7 with "Oculus small edition", but I will get used to it. Have some wobbling effect sometimes, and some clouds and ground smoke effects are not always rendered in both eyes at the same time when they should.

 

Much work for ED's programmer I see ahead ... :)

Edited March 22, 2020 by TOViper

[wilbur81]

So here's the point: in 2.5.5, one did not have to turn the shadows off, but now one does to get equal performance? This is not progress. Keep bug squashing...:thumbup:

[imacken]

Since I started using 2.5.6. a few days ago, I made some steps forward.

 

What I did:

.) Update to Windows 10 pro (yes ... I know, but it was for free, so I gave it a try).

.) Update Oculus Rift CV1 Software

.) Some little changes to my DCS configuration

 

Now, generally speaking, and this counts for my computer configuration, shadows are the killer.

I never ground shadows used since I own DCS, but now the object shadows are frame eater like hell. I turned them OFF, and now everything is good again (more or less ...).

During the time I had shadows set to ON, it resulted in having 15 frames. Funny part: the graphics card was working at 50%, and the processors at 40%. So the "lags" are obviously produced by calculating shadows in a - now - very inefficient way.

 

I have now stable 45 during most periods of flying, even on my big MP mission I am playing all the time with a friend. The rest of the feeling for "90 Hz" is done by ASW, that kicks in in Windows 10.

 

All in all, the rendering is not as exact than in W7 with "Oculus small edition", but I will get used to it. Have some wobbling effect sometimes, and some clouds and ground smoke effects are not always rendered in both eyes at the same time when they should.

 

Much work for ED's programmer I see ahead ... :)

 

After a whole bunch of testing, I came to the same conclusion. Turning shadows off solves the problem. Hopefully, ED will work it out and we can get back to being able to switch them back on.

[fab.13]

Hello,

 

We should create a separate thread about shadows

 

Imacken has a powerful machine , but shadows performance problem ever exist on his machine

[imacken]

May be we should, or maybe this thread is enough if ED are monitoring it.

 

We need shadows to work, as they change everything, especially in VR. They affect instrument lighting (especially when flying into the sun), general lighting in the cockpit (especially in the footwells and stopping bogus light that shouldn't be there, sun rendering, immersion etc. etc.

[fab.13]

I was thinking about getting the "REPORTED" status of such a thread...

[imacken]

Fair enough. I don't quite undestand why this thread is still [iNVESTIGATING]. It has been that way ever since 2.5.6 beta was launched.

 

Surely BN etc. must see how many users are suffering, and although we know ED are working on the FPS issue, it would be nice to see this thread change to [REPORTED].

[JumpinK]

Hopefuly…..

 

But when CM said " remember we had a massive lighting change with 2.5.6 so you may need to tweak your settings. " i think it's an answer for VR issue : tweak settings or upgrade your PC

 

Upgrade to what? A nuclear powered PC?

DCS 2.5.6 is unplayable at the moment - it's crap IMHO.

It doesn't even look nice.

 

I'm wondering about the systems of the developers, because they don't seem to have any issues and never care about any fps-loss after an update. :huh:

[Gryzor]

May be we should, or maybe this thread is enough if ED are monitoring it.

 

We need shadows to work, as they change everything, especially in VR. They affect instrument lighting (especially when flying into the sun), general lighting in the cockpit (especially in the footwells and stopping bogus light that shouldn't be there, sun rendering, immersion etc. etc.

 

I use a moded shadow.lue file by me, that works quite well (in 2.5.5), which reduce distance drawing of shadows in objects to 100 meters, keeping the cockpit shadows. At least, its playable in VR with objects shadowing.

 

You only have to replace this file, and selecting in options the shadow object detail to "low". I used since one year ago. The only problem is that doesn´t pass online file checking.

 

One time more, a optimization that could have been done by ED many time ago, in core sim, not by me.

 

I attach it

shadows.lua

Edited March 22, 2020 by Gryzor

[Gryzor]

Upgrade to what? A nuclear powered PC?

DCS 2.5.6 is unplayable at the moment - it's crap IMHO.

It doesn't even look nice.

 

I'm wondering about the systems of the developers, because they don't seem to have any issues and never care about any fps-loss after an update. :huh:

 

Its quite simple: they don´t test in VR, nowadays is not consider even a priority. Simply. Because there is no PC or configuration in this world that could move this. Mine is high end PC 7700K (a bit old, but with 4 cores at 5.1 Ghz water cooled), 32 MB at 3200 mhz, 2080ti at 2.100 Mhz (AOURUS EXTREME), two SSD 2 TB / 2 TB (in one DCS, in the other W19), Valve index HMD, W10 optized with the less startup applications, etc. Consider I have many sims in VR, this is the worst software, in terms of performance and optimizations.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Gryzor

[fab.13]

Anyway, the "how to report a bug" thread in this forum says : "one thread per suspected bug".

 

This is a rule.

 

Now that "shadows performance" problem is existing and isolated in this OpenBeta. We should have to provide a good method to show this performance problem ( FPS counter, track, ...)

 

And we'll see the status that ED will put on in.

 

Let's be constructive...

[Shuenix]

Its quite simple: they don´t test in VR, nowadays is not consider even a priority. Simply.

 

Thereis also a lot of fps loss in 2D. Take it easy VR guys, you are not alone.

[Shuenix]

Upgrade to what? A nuclear powered PC?

 

Exactly, see all the highpowered PC's with problems. No way to upgrade out this mess. The GPU's and CPU's is not even allowed to run on max. Something serious is wrong.

[speed-of-heat]

I would not expect the cpu to run at max, the gpu is another matter...

[Gryzor]

I know, however at least in 2D could be playable with high specs PC. In VR cannot.

[Fang333333]

Thereis also a lot of fps loss in 2D. Take it easy VR guys, you are not alone.

 

The VR guys have been waiting patiently for months and its not an fps loss.

 

Its been unplayable.

 

Most of us reported this in good faith. Months ago. We waited. Never heard any DETAILED info. Alot of us are Early Access. Alot of us are Youtube or other form of online streamers. This has effected other DCS projects. Probably affected small streaming channels and the small income they get. Virtual Squadrons I have seen complain about server having low traffic. We appreciate the works of members like BigNewy, we are glad this is said to be REreported monday, but frankly enough is enough.

 

STOP the stupid fixes and graphic tweaks immediatly!

Give us detailed info and tell us whats going on.

Forget about Super Carrier (Alot of us cannot play it if its released)

Rollback this if necessary and stop kicking the can farther down the road.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Fang333333

[Shuenix]

Give us detailed info and tell us whats going on.

 

 

:thumbup:

I have been waiting for some real info too.

[BIGNEWY]

The VR guys have been waiting patiently for months and its not an fps loss.

 

Its been unplayable.

 

Most of us reported this in good faith. Months ago. We waited. Never heard any DETAILED info. Alot of us are Early Access. Alot of us are Youtube or other form of online streamers. This has effected other DCS projects. Probably affected small streaming channels and the small income they get. Virtual Squadrons I have seen complain about server low traffic. We appreciate the works of members like BigNewy but frankly enough is enough.

 

STOP the stupid fixes and graphic tweaks immediately!

GIVE us DETAILED info and tell us whats going on.

FORGET the release of Super Carrier (We can't play it anyway)

ROLLBACK this if necessary and stop kicking the can farther down the road.

 

Sorry, We appreciate your feedback and we know you are upset, but you are not being helpful.

 

Development will not stop,

we will give you details when we know more

we have delayed the super carrier already to mid April

If you want to rollback please use the release version.

 

As soon as I have details about our investigation I will post it.

 

The only useful thing to do now is post tracks, and logs and system specs for the team.

[Fang333333]

If you want to rollback please use the release version.

 

As soon as I have details about our investigation I will post it.

 

The only useful thing to do now is post tracks, and logs and system specs for the team.

 

As always, thank you BigNewy

This has been done a month ago. I am severel release behind and it has its own issues. For example, I no longer have a debrief screen at start, my FA-18 HUD gun overlaps the ladder and AI still somehow effect fps despite me rollong back, its only PASSABLE fps-wise when it performed like FIRE before.

 

Obviously, theres no sense in reporting these as I am not in a current version all I can do is checkback every day. Hoping for a change and funtioning update.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Fang333333

[Gryzor]

The VR guys have been waiting patiently for months and its not an fps loss.

 

Its been unplayable.

 

Most of us reported this in good faith. Months ago. We waited. Never heard any DETAILED info. Alot of us are Early Access. Alot of us are Youtube or other form of online streamers. This has effected other DCS projects. Probably affected small streaming channels and the small income they get. Virtual Squadrons I have seen complain about server having low traffic. We appreciate the works of members like BigNewy, we are glad this is said to be REreported monday, but frankly enough is enough.

 

STOP the stupid fixes and graphic tweaks immediatly!

Give us detailed info and tell us whats going on.

Forget about Super Carrier (Alot of us cannot play it if its released)

Rollback this if necessary and stop kicking the can farther down the road.

 

I agree totally with you. we are waited not only many months, even years, looking at other´s companies products and its advance this situation is completely unacceptable. Personally, after each patch iteration I have to tweak again many parameters like labels, shadows, fps shaders mod from other user... why I have to do this work? Why I have to "fight" with detailed tweaking when I have a top high end PC?? we spend many hours just tweaking, testing, reverting, year after year, just to be on the same situation like 2 years ago. The pity is that a lot of persoms consider normal.

 

No multithread, no clouds, no vulkan... will reach 2025 and ED will get out 20 more modules more, selling all of them in EA, with exponentially 2000 more bugs, just because I feel their cannot control the bug beast they created. As you said, enough is enough.

 

To ED ALL Developers: just an advice (I also appreciated BigNewy work on forums, at least he answers to us): don´t sleep in your beds, and look what is happening with Intel due the AMD growing month after month. The lack of modern sim competence could change... every thing is subject to change :thumbup:

 

No more money invested in DCS from my part, WILL only when I´ll see fixes and improvements in core sim, not just a damm shader lighting tweak.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Gryzor

[Shuenix]

 

...........we will give you details when we know more

 

Hi BIGNEWY

 

Thanx for your answers, I do appreciate your answers very much. But the line above, worries me. Together with you asking for more replays and specs, it seems that ED haven't found the culpritt yet.

 

Am I right to assume that?

[Gunny Highway]

I wouldn't call the game unplayable in my experience. I dont have a top end system (i7-6700k and 2080) it runs just fine. Getting at least 40FPS with the Rift S. Might have to tweak your settings if its dipping below the ASW threshold.

 

The strangest VR bugs are the left eye/right eye differences on clouds and certain lights.