[REPORTED]VR Performance OB 2.5.6

[hanab]

The last update to stable (2.5.5) was Dec 24 which in the scheme of software development is nothing especially when you factor in Xmas holidays and the recent disruptions.

 

I could cite a zillion examples of software where live business critical production systems have been seriously impacted and it take a lot longer to fix. We are talking about a beta version here.

 

I too have invested significantly in DCS running on VR but I want to see the product grow as an overall package and I am prepared to show some patience, I would rather the team spend the time making 2.5.6 work better in VR than abandon it at this relatively early stage. Creating additional branches for VR vs monitors would only seem to over complicate and slow down development IMHO.

 

This thread is great in terms of giving feedback which may help identify the performance issues but endlessly demanding roll backs when the stable 2.5.5 version is still available and will be for the foreseeable future is, in my opinion, far less helpful.

 

Hopefuly…..

 

But when CM said " remember we had a massive lighting change with 2.5.6 so you may need to tweak your settings. " i think it's an answer for VR issue : tweak settings or upgrade your PC

[Speacy]

Hi BIGNEWY!

 

Please try to understand the VR community:

 

Since 2.5.6 the OB is simply unplayable - since 5 weeks! To fix this should have TOP priority.

 

In the mean time I fly on the stable branch, that is ok. But how long will the stable be playable?!?

This is what every VR Pilot here fears: that the stable goes 2.5.6

 

It's cool that there are Special offers, but to be honest: I am not willed to spend a single penny, as long as the problem is not fixed! I don't want to be unpolite, but I only fear, that if you roll out 2.5.6 on stable DCS is not playable for me anymore; so I don't want to waste my money!

And my hardware is not the best, but also not the worst!

 

It simply can't be a deal: Nice lightening vs. really bad FPS

So please: If you can not fix the FPS ASAP, remove the lightening and put your efforts in finishing the modules!

 

I think most of the users can live without the nice lights!!!!!!!

 

You seem to have summed up the situation perfectly, thanks

[AnarchyZG]

what is most puzzleing is that GPU is practicaly idle at <20% and even CPU rarely goes over 60% ancient i5-3570K and GTX1080. My framerate is basicaly unplayable barely hitting 40fps in empty single player mission and 17fps in multiplayer

[Gryzor]

Hi BIGNEWY!

 

Please try to understand the VR community:

 

Since 2.5.6 the OB is simply unplayable - since 5 weeks! To fix this should have TOP priority.

 

In the mean time I fly on the stable branch, that is ok. But how long will the stable be playable?!?

This is what every VR Pilot here fears: that the stable goes 2.5.6

 

It's cool that there are Special offers, but to be honest: I am not willed to spend a single penny, as long as the problem is not fixed! I don't want to be unpolite, but I only fear, that if you roll out 2.5.6 on stable DCS is not playable for me anymore; so I don't want to waste my money!

And my hardware is not the best, but also not the worst!

 

It simply can't be a deal: Nice lightening vs. really bad FPS

So please: If you can not fix the FPS ASAP, remove the lightening and put your efforts in finishing the modules!

 

I think most of the users can live without the nice lights!!!!!!!

 

Totally agree

[Baldrick33]

Hi BIGNEWY!

 

Please try to understand the VR community:

 

Since 2.5.6 the OB is simply unplayable - since 5 weeks! To fix this should have TOP priority.

 

In the mean time I fly on the stable branch, that is ok. But how long will the stable be playable?!?

This is what every VR Pilot here fears: that the stable goes 2.5.6

 

It's cool that there are Special offers, but to be honest: I am not willed to spend a single penny, as long as the problem is not fixed! I don't want to be unpolite, but I only fear, that if you roll out 2.5.6 on stable DCS is not playable for me anymore; so I don't want to waste my money!

And my hardware is not the best, but also not the worst!

 

It simply can't be a deal: Nice lightening vs. really bad FPS

So please: If you can not fix the FPS ASAP, remove the lightening and put your efforts in finishing the modules!

 

I think most of the users can live without the nice lights!!!!!!!

So you want 2.5.5 stable not to be updated given the experience with 2.5.6 OB. That makes sense and surely is the purpose of the OB to get feedback and identify issues so they can be sorted before promoting OB to stable.

 

So I totally agree, OB is not ready to promote to stable. I think we (VR users) have made that pretty clear.

 

Then you want OB to be fixed asap so you can play it in VR?

 

Then if it can't be fixed asap to remove features that people have been asking for and many seem very happy with?

 

As long as stable remains at 2.5.5 then I do believe we need to give ED time to investigate the performance issues for VR users in OB. Of course what is deemed an acceptable time frame will vary from user to user but 2.5.6 is a significant change (and no doubt the result of a lot of time and effort) and working through it in OB will take longer than many updates we have seen more recently.

[BIGNEWY]

We know people are upset, but please remember open beta is our public test build, we use it to find the issues before we update stable version.

 

The team are investigating as mentioned, the lighting may not be the problem, I only mentioned it as it was a significant change from 2.5.5

 

We have some great posts in this thread that have been helpful for the team.

 

Please if you have data and logs to share or short tracks showing the issue please add them here so we can try and get to the bottom of it.

 

thanks

[speed-of-heat]

We know people are upset, but please remember open beta is our public test build, we use it to find the issues before we update stable version.

 

The team are investigating as mentioned, the lighting may not be the problem, I only mentioned it as it was a significant change from 2.5.5

 

We have some great posts in this thread that have been helpful for the team.

 

Please if you have data and logs to share or short tracks showing the issue please add them here so we can try and get to the bottom of it.

 

thanks

 

Thanks BIGNEWY!

[Gripen 4-1]

So you want 2.5.5 stable not to be updated given the experience with 2.5.6 OB. That makes sense and surely is the purpose of the OB to get feedback and identify issues so they can be sorted before promoting OB to stable.

 

So I totally agree, OB is not ready to promote to stable. I think we (VR users) have made that pretty clear.

 

Then you want OB to be fixed asap so you can play it in VR?

 

Then if it can't be fixed asap to remove features that people have been asking for and many seem very happy with?

 

As long as stable remains at 2.5.5 then I do believe we need to give ED time to investigate the performance issues for VR users in OB. Of course what is deemed an acceptable time frame will vary from user to user but 2.5.6 is a significant change (and no doubt the result of a lot of time and effort) and working through it in OB will take longer than many updates we have seen more recently.

 

I have both branches installed. Currently only the stable is able to give me the FPS I Need for VR. Sure I want the OB fixed cause I've purchased the SUPERCARRIER :smilewink:

[Hippo]

Hi all

 

the team are working on FPS issues, this patch had memory leak fixes which helped some.

As we progress with 2.5.6 hopefully you will see performance increase, but please remember we had a massive lighting change with 2.5.6 so you may need to tweak your settings.

 

I will be highlighting the VR FPS issues to the team again on Monday in my weekly report to the team.

 

thanks

 

I hate to be critical, especially as you personally always make so much of an effort responding on here, with almost superhuman patience.

 

However, the above statement is concerning.

 

The frame rate issues that have been repeatedly reported are so severe that it seems that nothing should need to be highlighted. The team should be seeing this as the top issue and devoting all their efforts to fix it. The above statement, unfortunately, can lead to the impression that the issue is being underestimated or even ignored.

 

On top of that the issue remains after two updates, which points to it being serious and possibly not fixable without considerable effort.

 

I'm sorry to be skeptical, but there's a strong echo here of the deferred shading (but many times worse) performance debacle.

 

Speaking for myself, if this goes through to stable, I'll stay on 2.5.5 and will not purchase anything until this issue is fixed.

 

Obviously, how ED choose to communicate is up to them, but in an ideal world I think the following should be communicated clearly:

 

- an acknowledgment that they are fully aware of a very serious performance impact ("they are working of fps issues" doesn't really cut it).

- what they think is causing the issue

- what they are doing about it

- approximate ETA for fix

- confirmation that this issue will not go on to stable

 

My own report is below. Flying the 1st mission from a campaign I bought, I get 5fps, where previously on 2.5.5 I was getting 40 fps, with dips to 25. This makes it unusable. My own settings are already low. If I go any lower, the visual quality will make it so that the game is not worth bothering with. I see no need for logs, tracks, etc. One of your testers just has to fly the mission and they will instantly see the issue.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4237111&postcount=2

 

 

EDIT: By 1st mission above, I mean the mission that follows the one in the link, where you start parked at Nellis, in the cockpit, and there are lots of parked aircraft nearby.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Hippo

[Hippo]

I had not tried the above mission with the latest version, and I can now see that the issue is no longer there. Apologies for jumping the gun. And thank you to all responsible for making the mission (FA-18C - FAM Flight.miz) now usable.

 

But...

 

F/A-18C Aggressors BFM Campaign by Maple Flag:

 

Updated some units to current models

Removed unused units and replaced them with static models

Corrected parking positions to match 2.5.6 changes

I strongly suspect that the underlying issue remains unresolved, and has something to do with multiple AI objects. I tried loading the old version of the mission from a backup to test this, but this didn't work (copy protection, I expect). Perhaps your testers are able to check this, though?
Edited March 21, 2020 by Hippo

[Fisu_MAD]

Nice, Bignewy, we wait the better for DCS, i wish ED find these problems in the short time

[Guppy]

Hopefuly…..

 

But when CM said " remember we had a massive lighting change with 2.5.6 so you may need to tweak your settings. " i think it's an answer for VR issue : tweak settings or upgrade your PC

 

Here's the issue. I'm running every setting on the lowest in 2.5.6. and still my FPS is messed up.

 

This is on a 2080 TI, dedicated SSD, 32 GB RAM, 8700k @ 5.2ghz. Everything overclocked and water cooled. For many of us we have close to the best PC for this application that money can buy.

 

I do not have this issue in any other game but DCS. This is a DCS issue and quite frankly, DCS has had significant performance issues in the VR space for some time. I appreciate ED adding new lighting features and things to enhance how the game works, but it cannot be at a cost of serious performance issues in a game that already has performance issues.

 

Further, I cannot even use my SimPit any more because exporting to separate monitors causes massive stuttering for me. As of now I have not logged onto DCS since 2.5.6. I check each patch, play with settings for two hours and then give up.

 

The only setup, which mind you works flawlessly, is if I just use my 34" monitor with nothing else.

[Baldrick33]

I hate to be critical, especially as you personally always make so much of an effort responding on here, with almost superhuman patience.

 

However, the above statement is concerning.

 

The frame rate issues that have been repeatedly reported are so severe that it seems that nothing should need to be highlighted. The team should be seeing this as the top issue and devoting all their efforts to fix it. The above statement, unfortunately, can lead to the impression that the issue is being underestimated or even ignored.

I think we are getting into semantics here, the statement said "I will be highlighting the VR FPS issues to the team again on Monday in my weekly report to the team."

 

We are pushing Bignewy for updates and he is stating he will be pushing the ED team for the same. I don't think we need to read more into it than that.

[Lange_666]

As we progress with 2.5.6 hopefully you will see performance increase, but please remember we had a massive lighting change with 2.5.6 so you may need to tweak your settings.

 

 

The frame rate issues that have been repeatedly reported are so severe that it seems that nothing should need to be highlighted. The team should be seeing this as the top issue and devoting all their efforts to fix it.

 

 

In my entire sim career i came across this issue more then once. Sims like FSX and IL-2 Clifs Of Dover where simply almost unplayable at anything then low setting when they were released. And now 2.5.6 takes such a hugh drop in performance that i always wondered how developers can develop a sim that doesn't even runs decently? How in the world can an update be released, even on an Open Beta channel, were it seems that even developers were not aware that they released something with such an negative impact on performance. Either they have hardware that we can't buy (yet) or they must have seen it before release.

And then i come to the tweaking... if it's solved by tweaking it a little (!!!), i really want to know the developers tweaks. No secret in that, or is there?

[Hippo]

In my entire sim career

 

:)

 

May I humbly suggest, Sir, that you might be taking things a bit too seriously?

[Lange_666]

LOL, just how you interpret it.

[speed-of-heat]

@BIGNEWY have the devs made any changes to the "mirror's code" , in my very simple instant action free flight f-18, tests, i get similar perf between the 2.5.6 and 2.5.5 if i disable mirrors

[BIGNEWY]

@BIGNEWY have the devs made any changes to the "mirror's code" , in my very simple instant action free flight f-18, tests, i get similar perf between the 2.5.6 and 2.5.5 if i disable mirrors

 

Not sure about any change, but I will take a look to see if I notice a difference.

 

I know MSAA and SSLR have had a impact for many in VR

[speed-of-heat]

Not sure about any change, but I will take a look to see if I notice a difference.

 

I know MSAA and SSLR have had a impact for many in VR

 

understood , i have them both set to off

[Elnocho3]

Mirrors off, MSAA off, SSLR off here

 

Unplayable performance in 2.5.6.45317 in comparison to the last 2.5.5 build. FPS in the low teens on the ground in NTTR MP servers, ~20 in the air

[Fang333333]

Hi BIGNEWY!

 

Please try to understand the VR community:

 

Since 2.5.6 the OB is simply unplayable - since 5 weeks! To fix this should have TOP priority.

 

 

No

This should have been the ONLY priority.

 

I keep wondering whats gonna happen when they realize all these "fixes" are on a core thats broken.

[Sniper175]

Vr is running great for me other than an occasional drop to 20 fps for a couple seconds as something loads or something with Ai happens, its on the cpu side so im sure it will fix.

 

As i posted in another thread i get way better performance under Oculus then i do WMR.:thumbup:

[wilbur81]

No

This should have been the ONLY priority.

 

I keep wondering whats gonna happen when they realize all these "fixes" are on a core thats broken.

 

This is not simply a VR problem either. Performance is worse for us 2D players as well.

[Svsmokey]

No

This should have been the ONLY priority

 

Absolutely .

[hazzer]

I just went on a flight for the first time in a few weeks. I had to give up halfway through, that is horrendous. In VR it was stuttering every few seconds, the fps was much lower even with me reducing the settings. It was no fun at all. I am concerned that ED think this is okay as they had the lighting 'upgrade'. Usually when a game upgrades performance increased, yet in the case of DCS it has been on a rather rapid decline. Performance should be of the highest priority, at this point in time there is 0 reason for me to fly in DCS.