Flyby Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 With the release of Black Shark due any time now, I look forward to learning, and becoming a proficient killer with it. I also look forward to the online play. In fact, flying a gunship online will be a really exciting thing for me. I wonder what the future holds for a proper human opfor to the Black Shark. Being a ground attack weapon it's not expected to dominate the A2A scene, and I'm not sure the helo-v-helo fight is where I'm at as it seems a bit unrealistic (in a sim of such realism). So I ask you the question: what would be a fitting human opfor to play against the Black Shark online? Is it even feasible to think of such a thing for a gunship simulation? I as used to participation against human opfor in the IL2 series, and to a lesser extent LOMAC, and I must say that performing online against fellow humans really cranks up my interest in any sim. I guess I think that's the ultimate experince in simming. Flyby out The U.S. Congress is the best governing body that BIG money can buy. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner.pl Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Czechoslovakia-Germany border 1989 :music_whistling: For helo vs helo a2a combat, go to the Iran-Iraq war, between 1980, and 1987, 10 Cobras, and 6 Hinds were shot down - mainly using antitank wire-guided missiles [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyby Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 OK, it could happen. Czechoslovakia-Germany border 1989 :music_whistling: For helo vs helo a2a combat, go to the Iran-Iraq war, between 1980, and 1987, 10 Cobras, and 6 Hinds were shot down - mainly using antitank wire-guided missiles point taken, but given the time span were those rare events? Nice photo of a Cobra and a Hind Flyby The U.S. Congress is the best governing body that BIG money can buy. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellonet Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 In the first itteration of DCS you can pretty much forget about PvP combat, unless you want som less then realistic Ka-50 vs. Ka-50 action. Even after the A-10 is introduced (which seems to be the next flyable) and then the AH-64 realistic PvP combat seems unlikely as none of these aircraft would meet each other on the battlefield. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner.pl Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Well the whole Iran-Iraq war was actually a series of clashes, so it wasn't too dense, actually every time two flights of attack helo's meet - they fought. Kusch should have more info about those fights, but if I remember correctly, it was then for the first time a chopper (Mi-24) fired a2a missile (R-60) at another helicopter (AH-1S), probably that was the last thing Cobra crew expected as it crash landed. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-akyla- Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 it was then for the first time a chopper (Mi-24) fired a2a missile (R-60) at another helicopter (AH-1S), probably that was the last thing Cobra crew expected as it crash landed. :blink: i didnt know that one ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner.pl Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Well it is terrible documented war, so take everything with a grain of salt, this is something I read some time ago, and I'm not sure if that story is true. Just like it is with the F-14 kill ratio, some say it is 161:1, others say its 65:0 (55 confirmed), and the confusing part is the Iran-Iraq war. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jascha Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Yeah... nothing is sure about this conflict. Just like the myth (or fact, depends how you see it) that Hind shot down F-4 Phantom II. Some good reading: http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_214.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyby Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 seems a bit barren for online play In the first itteration of DCS you can pretty much forget about PvP combat, unless you want som less then realistic Ka-50 vs. Ka-50 action. Even after the A-10 is introduced (which seems to be the next flyable) and then the AH-64 realistic PvP combat seems unlikely as none of these aircraft would meet each other on the battlefield. So with Black Shark there is no real hope for online opfor until well into the series, possibly a LOMAC-like presentation of aircraft. That will probably take many years. Too bad. I hope the series has the legs to last that long. But why reproduce a/c that are already reresented in LOMAC? I ask this from the online perspective. I think aside from BS being a study simulation, I'm missing the point. I hope the AI opfor is nearly unbeatable. Those of us who also fly IL2 eventually come to regularly defeat the enemy ai fighter when it's set on "ACE". But that's life. BS is what it is, and still highly anticipated. Flyby The U.S. Congress is the best governing body that BIG money can buy. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squid_DK Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I think there will be plenty of challenge in stalking enemy armour and setting up for a Vikhr attack without being clobbered by AD units. Cheers Staffan http://www.ipms.dk i7 9700K, Asus Z390 Prime A, Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti STRIX ROG, Fractal Design Define R6, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind, Oculus Rift S. 32 GB 3200 MHz RAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Actually it was an anti-tank missile. The A2A was done with cannon and ATGMs. So yes, that means TOW, etc. Well the whole Iran-Iraq war was actually a series of clashes, so it wasn't too dense, actually every time two flights of attack helo's meet - they fought. Kusch should have more info about those fights, but if I remember correctly, it was then for the first time a chopper (Mi-24) fired a2a missile (R-60) at another helicopter (AH-1S), probably that was the last thing Cobra crew expected as it crash landed. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 As for reasonable human OPFOR - obviously, it can only be another Ka-50 at first. The A-10 is another story and I can tell you right now that 'it's not even competition' ... that's how bad helis have it against fixed wing aircraft, ASSUMING the A-10 pilot has half a clue and knows that you attack a heli by DIVING at it, shooting it, then pulling out and climbing hard. The Heli effectively doesn't get to put any weapons on target, at all. It is simply devastating. If the A-10 guy flies around low (like it seems, most virtual A-10 jocks seem to like doing) then the Ka-50 has a goo chance of putting a Vikhr on it if the aspect is right, and the Ka-50 sees the target first. If the A-10 sees the launch, so long as he's not dragging along at less than 250kts, he can evade it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 In real life you would see everything from time to time (including infantry vs. jet and helo vs. helo). Wasn't there a Hs-129 that came back with an AP round from a tanks main gun wedged in the fuselage. What about the artillery crew that took down a Bf-109? Just think, NATO observers were convinced that the Ka-50 was an anti-helicopter helicopter (that doesn't mean it isn't ludicrous but it also doesn't mean that a lot of people can't half believe that it might be a feasible role). Still, what about one of those American cavalry vehicles (M2 with stingers)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Exceptions don't make a plethora of interesting scenarios though :) The M6 (linebacker) is in Black Shark, IIRC. That is reasonable OPFOR, but not human-playable. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundowner.pl Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 The interesting thing is how much did Americans spend time and effort during the LHX program for a2a combat. They thrown into air everything they had to fight each other, to see what works, and what do not in helo vs helo dogfight. They've seen it as very serious threat. And they still do, just take a look at the AH-1Z - very rigid main rotor, high power engines, and additional pylons specially for Sidewinders missiles. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 The AH-1Z has a very special operational requirement for those AAMs. We've already covered this! :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geier Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 In real life you would see everything from time to time (including infantry vs. jet and helo vs. helo). Wasn't there a Hs-129 that came back with an AP round from a tanks main gun wedged in the fuselage. What about the artillery crew that took down a Bf-109? ...and Ju53 shot down by tank cannon of T34 in '44:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Exceptions don't make a plethora of interesting scenarios though The M6 (linebacker) is in Black Shark, IIRC. That is reasonable OPFOR, but not human-playable. Why not? ;) :) ...and Ju53 shot down by tank cannon of T34 in '44:) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyby Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 As usual... I get very interesting replies to my questions. I learn so much this way, and am very appreciative of all your feedback. Black Shark is one of two major sims, I look forward to (the other being Oleg's Storm of War/Battle of Britain). This site is great. Even Wags weighs in from time to time, and I bet he's a very busy guy.:thumbup: But I think you all are busy guys who take the time to help sort through a great up-coming sim. In your own way I suppose you help to maintain brand loyalty, and there's nothing wrong with that. Flyby:pilotfly: The U.S. Congress is the best governing body that BIG money can buy. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Wags Posted October 21, 2007 ED Team Share Posted October 21, 2007 On my outlook calender, I have time put away to create a new producer video with commentary every three or four weeks. There may be times when this gets deplayed due to other matters, but I hope this will provide more feedback to you all. Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt Twitch: wagmatt System: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3729544#post3729544 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyby Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 see what I mean? ;)On my outlook calender, I have time put away to create a new producer video with commentary every three or four weeks. There may be times when this gets deplayed due to other matters, but I hope this will provide more feedback to you all. Life is good. :D Flyby out The U.S. Congress is the best governing body that BIG money can buy. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Another example of field conditions: http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/1980s-OpPawan-article01.html A Mi-17 in Sri Lanka accidentally lifts 7000kgs (I believe its official capacity is less then half that). Wasn't there a bomber in Malta that was repaired using the wing from another aircraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 In the first itteration of DCS you can pretty much forget about PvP combat, unless you want som less then realistic Ka-50 vs. Ka-50 action. Well it could be pretty fun anyway. I'd like to see a dogfight server up, hehe E8600 Asus P5E Radeon 4870x2 Corsair 4gb Velociraptor 300gb Neopower 650 NZXT Tempest Vista64 Samsung 30" 2560x1600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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