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[NO BUG] F-16C shuts down on 'hot start'


Harry.R

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  • ED Team
I join a hot start jet on single or multiplayer and the HUD/MFDs switch off, then the jet shuts down. Is this a bug?

 

Hi please add a short track replay showing the issue and we will check.

 

Seems ok for me, if you use hotas sync in settings check your keybinds for anything that maybe activating when you start.

 

thanks

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  • ED Team
Do you have a battery such bound to your hotas? I had that problem when I had sync hotas on startup in the options enabled.

 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

good point, the default keybinds uses the flap switch on a thrustmaster warthog for the battery switch.

 

Could it be that?

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FYI, Battery should not be causing the aircraft to shutdown.

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  • ED Team
FYI, Battery should not be causing the aircraft to shutdown.

 

Correct, we would need to see a track replay to investigate more.

 

I've not been able to reproduce

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I had the same isure with my TMWH. Had to unbind the battery from the flaps switch. I think it is correct that the plane shut down when you put the battery switch to "off". If not then it is a bug.

 

As mention previously, please provide a track. To create a track, create a simple mission, recreate the bug. After exiting the mission, you should see the option to save track.

 

Battery switch to off should not turn off the engine in the F-16

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

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I join a hot start jet on single or multiplayer and the HUD/MFDs switch off, then the jet shuts down. Is this a bug?

 

 

Is your throttle in the Off Position when you start?

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I'll have a look and see if that's the issue, otherwise I'll up a track file as requested. Cheers.

 

Thanks for the suggestion on the Warthog throttle flap setting, the Viper works fine now. :thumbup:


Edited by Harry.R
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As mention previously, please provide a track. To create a track, create a simple mission, recreate the bug. After exiting the mission, you should see the option to save track.

 

Battery switch to off should not turn off the engine in the F-16

 

 

I've tested it. And you are right. Manual seting of battery switch to off doesn't shut down the engine. But I had in the past the same isure as the OP. Took me some time and googeling to fix it.

I don't know where i have read it but the fix was to unbind the flaps switch of the TMWH. So my impresion was that set battery switch to off shuts down also the engine.

 

It it must have something to do with that binding because for the OP it was also the fix.

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  • 2 months later...

Turning the Main Power to Off certainly doesn't stop the engine. So did we find out why a keybinding to soemething that cannot shut the engine down does so, or was it just finger trouble after all, and a throttle left in the closed position?

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Turning the Main Power to Off certainly doesn't stop the engine. So did we find out why a keybinding to soemething that cannot shut the engine down does so, or was it just finger trouble after all, and a throttle left in the closed position?

 

But IRL would start the EPU

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Yes, but the EPU would use bleed-air from the still running engine LP compressor rather than sparking up the Hydrazine motor... Hydrazine bad!

 

 

Either way, and somewhat OT, the engine does not shut off, nor does the epu start properly - in the current release. I assume it is still WIP.

 

 

 

The green run light illuminates when you move to battery power or turn it off, and both the Hydrazine AND Air lights illuminate.

 

Only the Air light should come on.

 

 

 

The HUD should be powered by the EPU in the F16C. It isn't in this build if the power is switched to battery. That may be wrong - but I'm not 100% sure. It does power the HUD if the power switch is left alone but the engine shut down.

 

 

 

So I'm unsure whether this is the case if there is only battery power - but that is sort of the point of the EPU - that and Hyd power, but in the event of no engine, you would fire up the JFS to keep the engine spinning at 20% to make sure that the life of the emergency power is extended.

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Yes, but the EPU would use bleed-air from the still running engine LP compressor rather than sparking up the Hydrazine motor... Hydrazine bad!

 

 

Either way, and somewhat OT, the engine does not shut off, nor does the epu start properly - in the current release. I assume it is still WIP.

 

 

 

The green run light illuminates when you move to battery power or turn it off, and both the Hydrazine AND Air lights illuminate.

 

Only the Air light should come on.

 

 

 

The HUD should be powered by the EPU in the F16C. It isn't in this build if the power is switched to battery. That may be wrong - but I'm not 100% sure. It does power the HUD if the power switch is left alone but the engine shut down.

 

 

 

So I'm unsure whether this is the case if there is only battery power - but that is sort of the point of the EPU - that and Hyd power, but in the event of no engine, you would fire up the JFS to keep the engine spinning at 20% to make sure that the life of the emergency power is extended.

 

What was the engine RPM when you got the HYDRAZN & AIR lights? With the engine at idle, there is not enough bleed air to allow the EPU to run in bleed air mode. The engine needs to be at a RPM of 82-90 depending on pressure altitude.

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Yes, but the EPU would use bleed-air from the still running engine LP compressor rather than sparking up the Hydrazine motor... Hydrazine bad!

 

 

Either way, and somewhat OT, the engine does not shut off, nor does the epu start properly - in the current release. I assume it is still WIP.

 

 

 

The green run light illuminates when you move to battery power or turn it off, and both the Hydrazine AND Air lights illuminate.

 

Only the Air light should come on.

 

 

 

The HUD should be powered by the EPU in the F16C. It isn't in this build if the power is switched to battery. That may be wrong - but I'm not 100% sure. It does power the HUD if the power switch is left alone but the engine shut down.

 

 

 

So I'm unsure whether this is the case if there is only battery power - but that is sort of the point of the EPU - that and Hyd power, but in the event of no engine, you would fire up the JFS to keep the engine spinning at 20% to make sure that the life of the emergency power is extended.

 

Not true..also on ground when there is a multiple grn fail or dual hydraulic fail OR the pilot selects EPU sw ON the epu will start always with Hydrazin and when bleed air is available will try to run on bleed air when available...

 

Engine OFF is no bleedair so the EPU will run in socalled monoptopellant mode ergo on Hydrazine only.

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This is not what I'm seeing in the documentation available.

Hydrazine is used for all EPU starts, under all conditions, except when commanded by the EPU TEST switch. That is the sole exception.

 

Totally right!

 

The EPU will always start on hydzn and take over with bleed air if possible. When using the TEST switch the EPU only runs on bleed air.

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Yes, but the EPU would use bleed-air from the still running engine LP compressor rather than sparking up the Hydrazine motor... Hydrazine bad!

 

Either way, and somewhat OT, the engine does not shut off, nor does the epu start properly - in the current release. I assume it is still WIP.

 

The green run light illuminates when you move to battery power or turn it off, and both the Hydrazine AND Air lights illuminate.

 

Only the Air light should come on.

 

The HUD should be powered by the EPU in the F16C. It isn't in this build if the power is switched to battery. That may be wrong - but I'm not 100% sure. It does power the HUD if the power switch is left alone but the engine shut down.

 

So I'm unsure whether this is the case if there is only battery power - but that is sort of the point of the EPU - that and Hyd power, but in the event of no engine, you would fire up the JFS to keep the engine spinning at 20% to make sure that the life of the emergency power is extended.

 

Sorry mate you made some misinterpretations here:

 

1st: the EPU contains of only one turrbine..either run by Hydrazin, air or both...So there is no seperate 'hydrazin motor' and with a windmilling engine there is no bleed air available/at all to run the EPU.

 

2nd: the LP compressor does not supply bleed air for the EPU...actually none at all. It is (for the EPU) 13th stage bleed air coming from the High pressure compressor

 

3rd: the EPU will always start on Hydrazin! Except for the ground test. That means that it will always use some hydrazin. Whenthere is enough bleed air it will take over with that. If not it will keep on running on hydrazin

 

4th: the hydrazin and air lights illuminate when the systems demands that medium. Air is always demanded so that light is always on when operating. The HYDZN light only illuminates when the system demand hydrazin

 

5th: When the engine is not operating and you are gliding the jet. The JFS may be started to relieve the EPU a little bit by running the hydraulic A pump, it is not started to run the engine.

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I may be wrong. I haven't been near an F-16 since the late 80s. However, I think you are also misinterpreting what I wrote.

1st: I don't recall saying anywhere that there was a separate "Hydrazin motor".

 

2nd: OK I hands up I misstyped LP Bleed air & forgot to edit it to say HP.

 

3rd: I bow to your greater knowledge, although, being a petty individual I must point out that it is Hydrazine with an e - the light caption is abbreviated. ;)

4th: Isn't that what I said?

 

5th: I did say more than once that the engine was running normally, not shut down or windmilling & I don't recall saying that there was a separate "Hydrazine motor".

 

 

I'll give you a win because I'm really not that concerned, although it would be interesting to hear from someone who has used the EPU in the air with a running engine.

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I may be wrong. I haven't been near an F-16 since the late 80s. However, I think you are also misinterpreting what I wrote.

1st: I don't recall saying anywhere that there was a separate "Hydrazin motor".

 

2nd: OK I hands up I misstyped LP Bleed air & forgot to edit it to say HP.

 

3rd: I bow to your greater knowledge, although, being a petty individual I must point out that it is Hydrazine with an e - the light caption is abbreviated. ;)

4th: Isn't that what I said?

 

5th: I did say more than once that the engine was running normally, not shut down or windmilling & I don't recall saying that there was a separate "Hydrazine motor".

 

I'll give you a win because I'm really not that concerned, although it would be interesting to hear from someone who has used the EPU in the air with a running engine.

 

1st:'rather than sparking up the Hydrazine motor'

 

2nd: copy

 

3rd: copy and copy

 

4th: no, you said only air light should come on..

 

5th: 'but in the event of no engine, you would fire up the JFS to keep the engine spinning at 20% to make sure that the life of the emergency power is extended.'

 

It is not about a win but about correct information. I have flown lots of backseats as I am an F-16MLU flight sim instructor. I know the systems quite well and spoke lots of pilots who have flown with a running EPU. The F-16MLU does not have a stby gen, so when the main gen fails the EPU will start directly

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Yes, but the EPU would use bleed-air from the still running engine LP compressor rather than sparking up the Hydrazine motor... Hydrazine bad!

...Only the Air light should come on.

4TH: If the engine is running normally.

Quoting the manual excerpt you yourself posted.

Hydrazine is always used when the EPU is commanded to start except when activated during ground test using the EPU/GEN test switch.
My understanding of what the manual says: even if you have a running engine putting out good air,, commanding EPU start (other than TEST) results in Hydrazine usage for at least the startup thus the Hydrazine light should come on.

The only time you should not see the hydrazine light illuminate during an EPU start.. regardless of aircraft condition... is when performing an EPU test on the ground.

 

 

That's what I'm reading from the manual quote.

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Quoting the manual excerpt you yourself posted.

My understanding of what the manual says: even if you have a running engine putting out good air,, commanding EPU start (other than TEST) results in Hydrazine usage for at least the startup thus the Hydrazine light should come on.

The only time you should not see the hydrazine light illuminate during an EPU start.. regardless of aircraft condition... is when performing an EPU test on the ground.

 

 

That's what I'm reading from the manual quote.

 

The Hydrazine light will come on when the system demands Hydrazine. So momentarely at startup of the EPU (pilot will most probably not notice this) together with the AIR light. When there is enough bleedair only the AIR light should be seen. Then when the pilot throttles back for example and bleed air is insufficient to run on bleed air the Hydrazine light will illuminate indicating the system demands Hydrazine to stay on the correct RPM. So with an engine flameout the AIR & Hydrazine lights illuminate...

 

Once again: the AIR light is always on when the system is triggered and functioning properly


Edited by Bouli306
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