F4 PHANTOM

[Rick50]

LOL!!

 

It's nice to see people having fun joking and in good spirits about this!

 

 

It's nice to "feature creep" an imagined module into the most amazing product ever in all history... but it's sometimes good also to manage your expectations. You and I may want every Phantom variant out there, but the EXTRA time and effort required for the devs to do that, would be monumental. At this point it's NOT certain that: Boeing would award licencing rights to depict the Phantom (since Boeing bought McDonald Douglas). It's NOT certain that there is enough legally ok documents, available for purchase, to cover the most popular Phantom variant that a dev might want to module. It's also not certain if any dev teams would actually decide to green-light it, even with the Phantom's history and significance. 

 

I'm not wanting to project doom, but if this doesn't happen, please see that life goes on! By then there will be other amazing modules to fly!

 

That said, an E and a J would do very nicely on the Syria map, as USN and IDF, Turkish AF, USAF, and even pretend Iranians figured out air to air refueling to make a long distance visit!  A Vietnam map would be amazing though IMO!

[BreakerHUN]

Well, out of joke there is a free mod being developed by 2 guys. They are bringing two versions of the F4 to dcs:

 

DCS - F-4 project new announcement - YouTube

 

Cockpit looks impressive and they work on custom flight model, and it will be free. Its better than nothing I guess.

[upyr1]

9 hours ago, BreakerHUN said:

Well, out of joke there is a free mod being developed by 2 guys. They are bringing two versions of the F4 to dcs:

 

DCS - F-4 project new announcement - YouTube

 

Cockpit looks impressive and they work on custom flight model, and it will be free. Its better than nothing I guess.

I hope these guys can get something released and are willing to go pro with the module.

[ebabil]

beauty

 

[G.J.S]

 

Deep breath . . . . . . . . Keep calm . . . . . . . . Oh god I miss the best ride ever.

[Rick50]

 

what's in the rectangular bit on top of the British Phantoms??  An antenna or something? 

[Harlikwin]

4 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

 

what's in the rectangular bit on top of the British Phantoms??  An antenna or something? 

 

RWR or ECM gear I'd assume, leaning toward the latter. 

[FlankerKiller]

Now that ED has a working multi crew AI, maybe they will resurrect this module. I would love to see them fallow Heatblure's lead on this. Maybe release a late F-4E, and then maybe the Iranian verint, and an early Navy model, and Air Force model. But if i had to pick it would be the late E. It's an iconic aircraft. It would fit in really well with the M2000C, the F-1, the F-14, the Mig-21, the Mig-23, and of corse the Hind. Also while not exactly accurate, it would give us a pretty good representation of the Iranian air force. 

[Harlikwin]

10 minutes ago, FlankerKiller said:

Now that ED has a working multi crew AI, maybe they will resurrect this module. I would love to see them fallow Heatblure's lead on this. Maybe release a late F-4E, and then maybe the Iranian verint, and an early Navy model, and Air Force model. But if i had to pick it would be the late E. It's an iconic aircraft. It would fit in really well with the M2000C, the F-1, the F-14, the Mig-21, the Mig-23, and of corse the Hind. Also while not exactly accurate, it would give us a pretty good representation of the Iranian air force. 

 

Mostly agree aside from the M2k-C really wasn't a cold war aircraft, its from like 87, so like the last year or two, and our version is even later. The F1 otoh...

[G.J.S]

6 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

RWR or ECM gear I'd assume, leaning toward the latter. 

Marconi RWR principally, but could have an ECM function also dependent on setting.

Edited July 14, 2021 by G.J.S

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, G.J.S said:

Marconi RWR principally, but could have an ECM function also dependent on setting.

 

 

WAIT, you mean antennas work BOTH ways? who woulda thunk

Anyhow, does that RWR  have name I can look up?

 

[G.J.S]

19 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

WAIT, you mean antennas work BOTH ways? who woulda thunk

Anyhow, does that RWR  have name I can look up?

 

Apologies, lack of sleep and not reading the several prior posts correctly resulted in a bad post.

Ive had a couple hours kip now. (2hrs in the last 48!).

 

Marconi ARI 18228(?), is the RWR gear - front and rear hemisphere. (Believe it’s same setup as was used in Vulcan).

Its NOT an ECM gear (not too sure what I had smoked?).

 

Going to go back under my stone now . . . . 

[Harlikwin]

7 minutes ago, G.J.S said:

Apologies, lack of sleep and not reading the several prior posts correctly resulted in a bad post.

Ive had a couple hours kip now. (2hrs in the last 48!).

 

Marconi ARI 18228(?), is the RWR gear - front and rear hemisphere. (Believe it’s same setup as was used in Vulcan).

Its NOT an ECM gear (not too sure what I had smoked?).

 

Going to go back under my stone now . . . . 

 

Wait, they let you do that in england?

[G.J.S]

33 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Wait, they let you do that in england?

Hehehehe.

 

[Ramstein]

On 1/15/2021 at 12:43 PM, jojyrocks said:

 

 

Initially, the Naval and USMC Phantoms did use the gunpods in combat missions, but soon found that they jammed. So Navy did limit the usage...US.Marines still used it to some degree more than Navy as they were the once doing more CAS missions and strafe runs.

 

Yes, the AF was the most big users of gunpod.

the centerline gun pod would have taken the 650 gallon tank away and had the gun inside, the much needed fuel would have made the sortie a very short and slow one... we had them when I wa sinthe USAF.

[Rick50]

I heard that the Vulcan gun pods also had an issue with being more vibration and thus more dispersion than compared to an internally mounted cannon. I also heard that the pod guns weren't always boresighted to the gunsight, making AA guns kills with the pods... difficult at best. This was maybe not a big deal for straffing runs, not real sure. But I wonder if it was an issue for danger-close CAS ? 

[G.J.S]

20 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

I heard that the Vulcan gun pods also had an issue with being more vibration and thus more dispersion than compared to an internally mounted cannon. I also heard that the pod guns weren't always boresighted to the gunsight, making AA guns kills with the pods... difficult at best. This was maybe not a big deal for straffing runs, not real sure. But I wonder if it was an issue for danger-close CAS ? 

 

Vibration . . . it seemed like someone was using a sledgehammer to pound on the metal floor beneath you.

Being a podded install there was a spread issue sometimes, [the teaching (due to the spread) was "wound from a distance (high spread), then kill from in close (tighter group in close)] - in that firing could cause the pod as a whole to 'shimmy', a very slight wiggle. It could never be completely eradicated, and for the most part never really showed itself, but when the 'right' pod got mounted on the 'right' airframe . . . . 

Bore sighting, it was sighted to the HUD ret to a point - the sweet spot would take into account the round drop, and you would coincide the sight depression to match for a given "sweet" range. But the podded gun would never have the accuracy of the built in gat on the Echo, that was (by comparison) eye-watering in accuracy of fire compared to the pod.

Edited July 14, 2021 by G.J.S

[Evoman]

I know everyone has their preference of F-4 variants for various reasons. How ever the variants I am mostly interested in are the ones that saw the most action in Vietnam as that is thee conflict that the Phantom saw the most action in. Here is an interesting chart that does a good job of putting into perspective which variants had the most kills in Vietnam.

 

 

[ebabil]

Don't forget me

[upyr1]

On 7/18/2021 at 8:38 AM, Evoman said:

I know everyone has their preference of F-4 variants for various reasons. How ever the variants I am mostly interested in are the ones that saw the most action in Vietnam as that is thee conflict that the Phantom saw the most action in. Here is an interesting chart that does a good job of putting into perspective which variants had the most kills in Vietnam.

 

 

This is one of the reasons that  I'm opposed to seeing the F-4 limited to the E and J. The B, C, and D saw the most action during the Vietnam war. The real question though is what what blocks? 

I figure the B and the C need to be the blocks with the most in common.

The D- should be a block that used a wide verity of smart bombs. 

The E and J need to be a block that was used in the Linebacker Campaigns and had a good post war service life.  In short opfor for the MiG-21 Bis

If we get the F it should be the ICE to represent the late life upgrades.

I seriously doubt we'll get the G as that is probably still classified.

I'm not sure about the N and S though

Then the British Phantom FGR if we get the RN version then I want a the HMS Ark Royal and/or Eagle 

[Rick50]

 

[Andrew8604]

12 hours ago, upyr1 said:

This is one of the reasons that  I'm opposed to seeing the F-4 limited to the E and J. The B, C, and D saw the most action during the Vietnam war. The real question though is what what blocks? 

I figure the B and the C need to be the blocks with the most in common.

The D- should be a block that used a wide verity of smart bombs. 

The E and J need to be a block that was used in the Linebacker Campaigns and had a good post war service life.  In short opfor for the MiG-21 Bis

If we get the F it should be the ICE to represent the late life upgrades.

I seriously doubt we'll get the G as that is probably still classified.

I'm not sure about the N and S though

Then the British Phantom FGR if we get the RN version then I want a the HMS Ark Royal and/or Eagle 

For the 1960's portion of the Vietnam War (Rolling Thunder), I believe it was the Navy F-4B and Air Force F-4C that saw the most usage.  The F-4D, E, and J seem to have mostly been used 1970-72.  So, I'd vote mainly for an F-4B (similar to the F-14 in crew functions - Pilot/RIO) and the F-4C (differing from the F-4B in that the WSO (back seat) I believe had flight controls, too.  These two versions had to have seen the most use.  But most people will go for the F-4E because it has the "internal" gun and can deliver laser-guided bombs...and maybe because it had 'maneuvering' slats.  I still prefer the F-4B/C....along with F-105D and A-4E that they often escorted or provided CAP for.

[Rick50]

 

Well... getting ANY Phantom is going to be difficult at best. Getting a second variant, would be almost miracle-level. We won't get a third variant, IMO, so pack wisely.

 

I think the first variant should be the widely sold E gunslinger, and the second variant should be a Navy carrier-capable variant of the Vietnam era, but I'm open to suggestions. Maybe a B or C instead of a J? Sure, ok makes sense. That criteria for me means we can have the most historical scenarios with those two variants, 'Nam era carrier ops, and global fights in the Middle East, Cold War scenarios.

 

While this jet is of huge importance to us fanbois and historians, I wonder how well known young virtual pilots know of it? Might not be a factor for some simpler planes, but the complexity of the Phantom in the cockpit and systems, means that it'll need to sell VERY well just to pay for the much longer development time needed. 

[upyr1]

On 8/30/2021 at 12:03 AM, Andrew8604 said:

For the 1960's portion of the Vietnam War (Rolling Thunder), I believe it was the Navy F-4B and Air Force F-4C that saw the most usage.  The F-4D, E, and J seem to have mostly been used 1970-72.  So, I'd vote mainly for an F-4B (similar to the F-14 in crew functions - Pilot/RIO) and the F-4C (differing from the F-4B in that the WSO (back seat) I believe had flight controls, too.  These two versions had to have seen the most use.  But most people will go for the F-4E because it has the "internal" gun and can deliver laser-guided bombs...and maybe because it had 'maneuvering' slats.  I still prefer the F-4B/C....along with F-105D and A-4E that they often escorted or provided CAP for.

The USAF F-4 Phantom II's all had controls in the back. The F-4D entered service at the end of Rolling Thunder, and it was one of the first planes to drop smart bombs 

 

According to wikipeida the Paveknife targeting pod was tested on F-4D 66-7693

I believe they also could carry the Walleye

 

I believe they had a different radar than the C and the USAF  pilot and WSOs who made ace did so in the F-4D.

 

[Lace]

Ahem,