Decision time - Index v Pimax 5k+ (or wait 8kX)

[DavidE]

Ideally I would like the reverb but with an IPD of 73, this is a non starter. The Index is also outside this range but I am OK with the original Rift, even when set at 68 or 69 so think I may be OK. Valve also have a reliable returns policy so worth the risk.

 

Was going to get the Index pre Christmas but on the day I decided to go for it, it went out of stock, hopefully will be back in stock over the next month. In the meantime, I revisited the Pimax offerings. The 5K+ does have the fov, IPD and potentially higher resolution but seems let down by build quality, service, outer distortion and software. To me clarity over fov would be the priority but as always would be good to have both.

 

I am running a 4790k / 1080Ti/ 24GB setup which may be a tad weak but would upgrade these components when the next generations come out with hopefully a 50% + improvement over my current gear.

 

I known things change over time and was wondering whether users have a better experience more recently than some of the older reviews of the Pimax, due to software changes etc.

 

The 8kX looks interesting with a better build quality but is very costly, not out yet and above my current PC specs. Still could be worth waiting a bit, for a longer term solution. If you run the Pimax on small fov, presumably that increases the frame rate, I could get the 8kX and run it on small until the rest of my hardware catches up but that could be some time.

 

I live in the UK, does Pimax only sell in dollar pricing, do they cost a lot to ship to the UK?

 

I was hoping that that the Acer concept D ojo might solve the dilemma but that looks questionable as to whether it will ever be released. Also don't know of any other hires headsets due out this year.

 

The Index looks the safer choice and whilst I am mainly DCS / IL2, I will probably delve into a few non sim games. then again no controllers would offset the higher 8KX. As you can see I am going round in circles here.

 

Any thoughts from longer term Primax or Index owners

 

thanks

 

David

[Baldrick33]

To me clarity over fov would be the priority but as always would be good to have both.

Having had both the Index has much greater clarity over the Pimax and a decent FOV.

 

I also noticed binocular overlap with the Pimax which I found a bit distracting.

 

The Index has very good audio so provides an all in one solution whereas the Pimax has no headphones.

[DavidE]

Baldrick

 

Thanks, just the sort of response i was hoping for, suspect the Index will be the way to go but did see a post here that suggests the reverb could get a revamp at CES - maybe manual IPD - unlikely but you never know.

 

cheers

 

David

[biggness]

Owned 3 headsets so far the Pimax 5k is the headset I use now. I had to reduce pixel density to use the Pimax on max FOV and the fact that DCS is power hungry but the capability of the headset to max is something that I like because the Pimax will not be obsolete for yrs. I changed the cheap head strap to a Vive deluxe headstrap with the built in headphones which is night and day results.

[DavidE]

The 8KX looks like a long term possibility but buying the index as a package saves circa £80 so that makes the headset well under £400 if I keep the controllers and stations in the longer term. Will in a year or so be able to sell the Index for say £150 so only drop say a loss of £200 ish and in the mean time the 8KX or generation 2 should be getting sorted out. Sounds like a sensible plan to me.

[Chivas]

I'm waiting for the high res, high FOV, wider IPD adjustment, of the Pimax 8Kx.

[Highwayman-Ed]

I own and have used the Oculus CV1 and HTC Vive in DCS, but now have the Pimax 5K XR and it's fantastic. The field of view (I use Normal, 150° Horizontal) is breathtaking and adds a LOT to the immersion and getting sensory input that helps with flying, and I couldn't live without it any more, but it does need quite a bit of horsepower to drive it.

 

The sweet spot of the headset is huge, there is plenty of adjustment for IPD settings, and digital offsets, as well as the physical lens spacing, should you need it. The clarity (inside the normal 120° Field of view) is crystal clear with a good head strap, I use the Vive Deluxe Audio Strap.

 

I have had to revert back to my Rift or Vive a couple of times, and the loss of the field of view was debilitating. This was due to issues with the manufacturing quality of the Pimax, and I've had to RMA 2 headsets due to cracking and the second with a couple of dead pixels, BUT Pimax has replaced them without any arguments.

 

I will be upgrading to an 8K X when they're available, as the only thing that bugs me with the 5K XR is that the screen door effect of the OLED screens pentile (diamond-shaped) matrix is only slightly better than the Rift or the Vive due to the Pixel density not being much better than the older headsets because to the wider Field of View.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Highwayman-Ed

[DavidE]

I have been watching the CES streams on the Pimax 8K X, looks like the comfort, build quality and distortion issues have been mostly overcome. The IPD is within range and the clarity sounds amazing.

 

See that it also has a dual mode so if the 1080Ti is a bit below spec, I can use it in upscaler mode or small screen so should be usable. The upgrade options in the future for things like eye tracking is also a big plus.

 

Does sound that Pimax may be coming of age and hopefully the support and professionalism will increase over time.

 

The basic audio sounds poor but the deluxe version may help, if not I already have a good set of steelseries wireless headphones.

 

The only problem is the price but if I forgo the controllers and use just one base station initially, then not so bad, easier to justify things like the controllers for Christmas presents at a later date.

 

Decision made, I will wait for the 8KX and see what the DCS reviews are like in April / May. Always have the Index route to fall back on if the delivery schedule slips again.

 

Thanks for all the help and comments.

[hansangb]

I have been watching the CES streams on the Pimax 8K X, looks like the comfort, build quality and distortion issues have been mostly overcome. The IPD is within range and the clarity sounds amazing.

 

See that it also has a dual mode so if the 1080Ti is a bit below spec, I can use it in upscaler mode or small screen so should be usable. The upgrade options in the future for things like eye tracking is also a big plus.

 

Does sound that Pimax may be coming of age and hopefully the support and professionalism will increase over time.

 

The basic audio sounds poor but the deluxe version may help, if not I already have a good set of steelseries wireless headphones.

 

The only problem is the price but if I forgo the controllers and use just one base station initially, then not so bad, easier to justify things like the controllers for Christmas presents at a later date.

 

Decision made, I will wait for the 8KX and see what the DCS reviews are like in April / May. Always have the Index route to fall back on if the delivery schedule slips again.

 

Thanks for all the help and comments.

 

 

I'd take a serious look at HP's Reverb. I had the Pimax5K+ and sold it on ebay. The wider FoV was great, but HP's resolution won over. They iterated the PiTools software often, so I'm sure they are making progress. But WMR and Reverb is very polished now.

 

Also, you'll be fine with one base station. I used it and got compete 6DOF in DCS. Unless you are going to be doing room scale stuff, you certainly don't need two base stations for DCS. The laser lightning stuff leads the pack in tracking.

[rjetster1]

Waiting for more info from CES on the 8K X. So far looks amazing!

[Chivas]

Apparently Pimax won the award for best VR headset at CES. The only headset that appears to have better visuals is the XTAL headset, probably because of its superior lenses. Although the XTAL may have scale issues at this time, and you would pay thousands more for it. Pimax appears to be the best overall headset coming to the market in the near future..

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

Fwiw I wear my glasses in the index and the field of view is wider than the field of view of my lenses. In real life, at some point I have to turn my head to see clear at the periphery anyway so no biggie although I do have lens inserts on order.

Although a relative rookie, I seem to have it pretty dialed in with outstanding cockpit clarity, no stuttering and only the slightest ghosting when a plane flys by opposite. That’s not to say its 4k photorealistic!

Im happy but acknowledge their are others equally pleased with the other options they have chosen.

I guess the question is can your Pc drive both the FOv and clarity?

Good luck with your journey, it’s really fascinating!

[Chamidorix]

I've owned Index, currently have the reverb, and tried out multiple 8KXs today at CES. The reverb is absolutely better for DCS than the index, and honestly, the 8kx demo units they had blew the reverb out of the water. Assuming they have the same QA as the demo units, the consumer 8kxs should absolutely be the best consumer headset on the market for ALL parameters, money not being an concern.

 

The resolution density of the reverb is the same as the 8kx, but the difference between having peripheral vision vs looking through a box like the reverb is insane. Additionally, the screens were much nicer; I did not realize how annoying the muira was on the reverb until trying a high resolution headset without it. Add on top of it the near perfect tracking of lighthouse, and you have a headset that wins in all categories, except price :)

 

(BTW, the primary issue with Pimaxes besides money has been QA and panel distortion. The CES units had completely fixed the distortion, and I am going to wait until you can buy the 8kx on Amazon to hopefully help alleviate QA RMA issues. )

[DavidE]

The fact you can buy from Amazon in the UK is a big plus on the support concerns. Not sure how much of a price premium you pay for the privilege. The fact it copes with my 73 IPD makes me feel happier as well

 

Just watched the eye tracking stream, while too early for most games now, the fact that its an option is a plus.

 

On Amazon will you get the choice of the deluxe audio star, also do you buy the controllers and base stations from Valve direct, once again reduces some of the support concerns.

 

Glad the Index went out of stock just as I was going to buy it, the 8KX looks a longer term solution.

 

Just need to sell off some old HiFi and camera gear to pay the extra cost!

 

Once again thanks for all the comments.

[obious]

Does anyone know when the 8K X is on sale? or if anyone here has pulled the trigger?

[Harlikwin]

I've owned Index, currently have the reverb, and tried out multiple 8KXs today at CES. The reverb is absolutely better for DCS than the index, and honestly, the 8kx demo units they had blew the reverb out of the water. Assuming they have the same QA as the demo units, the consumer 8kxs should absolutely be the best consumer headset on the market for ALL parameters, money not being an concern.

 

The resolution density of the reverb is the same as the 8kx, but the difference between having peripheral vision vs looking through a box like the reverb is insane. Additionally, the screens were much nicer; I did not realize how annoying the muira was on the reverb until trying a high resolution headset without it. Add on top of it the near perfect tracking of lighthouse, and you have a headset that wins in all categories, except price :)

 

(BTW, the primary issue with Pimaxes besides money has been QA and panel distortion. The CES units had completely fixed the distortion, and I am going to wait until you can buy the 8kx on Amazon to hopefully help alleviate QA RMA issues. )

 

Thanks for the review. So the PPD on the 8kX is about the same as the reverb, with a wide view? I assume its up-sampled. And I assume they didn't have DCS running for this too. So performance may still be an issue.

[Mars Exulte]

I don't see why anybody would spend $1000 on a headset and then use the crap little audio devices they include. I won't buy one that has that crap on it, I have a REAL audio headset @@

Edited January 10, 2020 by zhukov032186

[Chamidorix]

Thanks for the review. So the PPD on the 8kX is about the same as the reverb, with a wide view? I assume its up-sampled. And I assume they didn't have DCS running for this too. So performance may still be an issue.

They are duel 2160 x 3840 panels, native. They accomplish this over a single display port 1.4 by capping refresh rate at 75hz. Plug into a bandwidth calculator and you can see they just barely have enough. You can quick-swap to ~1440 x 2560 render via PiTool and then this will upscale to the 4k panels and unlock refresh rate to 90hz. From my time at CES, it seems you can pretty seamlessly swap during game run to compare, but I certainly preferred less aliasing over +15hz, especially in DCS. Additionally, the refresh/render balance can further be finessed by discretely adjusting the fov, also via pitool. Overall, having never used Pimax before, I was fairly impressed at CES by the extra parameters PiTool let's you configure. (They already have static foveated rendering that works on everything!)

 

As far direct 8KX vs reverb pixel density comparison, that is quite tricky to definitively answer. As mentioned, the 8KX is 2 x 2160 x 3840, and the reverb is two square lenses: 2 x 2160 x 2160. So, the 8KX has substantially more horizontal pixels to compensate for the correspondingly substantial fov increase, so intuitively you would expect them to have very similar density. It is hard to perform a hard calculation, since your eye distance from the lens in addition to your personal IPDs interaction with the lens arrangement construction can significantly vary the actual perceived dpi. Anecdotally, I can say I was able to exactly replicate my graphics setup at home on the CES rig with nvidia profile inspector (1.4 pd, 2x msaa + mfaa enabled, -0.5 lod filtering) and, to the best of my perception, could not notice any difference in cockpit or outside world clarity + aliasing.

 

But, as mentioned, the clear, consistently colored screens were HUGELY noticeable, and the FOV was just such a good-feeling quality of life upgrade. Now that I've had a night to sleep on things, I find myself craving the 8KX hardcore while playing today on my reverb. I done messed up and tasted (currently) unobtainable glory and now I don't wanna go back xD

 

Another important thing to consider is that the Pimax has hard mechanical IPD adjustment. I have 61.5 and while the reverb works fine with about ~half of the image being sweetspot clarity level, I had close to edge to edge sweetspot clarity on 8KX once the IPD was dialed in. The only headset I've had better sweetspot on is the Index, since that remains the only headset with double-lens design + ipd AND eye relief sliders for 100% sweet spot attainability.

 

I'm actually kinda bummed, because previously I was confident I could wait until Nvidia Ampere + HDMI 2.1 (maybe DP 2.0?) to bring about a a new gen of headsets with the increased cable bandwidth, given that the reverb was almost maxing out current cable tech, but now I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be able to resist dropping a 1.5k load on this new hardware just because of how good the improvement felt xD

 

But hey, I can dream Nvidia surprise drops Ampre next month and Microsoft drops WMR 2.0 with 6 camera inside out tracking and and Samsung releases a true 2x 8k panel oled headset copying the index chassis adjustments for <$1000. I can dream.

[Harlikwin]

Thanks for those insights. I'll definitely put this headset on the "maybe list". I wonder if Pimax is demo-able anywhere in the US.

[karika]

Pimax US roadshow:

 

https://community.openmr.ai/t/fast-survey-are-you-interested-in-orlando-nyc-roadshow/25137

[USA_Recon]

Save your money for pimax 8kx - will be the top dog

 

Going to hopefully get a 3080 to go with it .. should be a good year for VR and a bad year for my wallet lol

 

But no way would I get a 5plus - if you wanted lower end the Artisan looks good for the $

[obious]

According to their website, apparently they’re already in stock

[FoxTwo]

According to their website, apparently they’re already in stock

 

 

I'll believe it when people start posting that they got their pre-orders.

[Harlikwin]

Pimax US roadshow:

 

https://community.openmr.ai/t/fast-survey-are-you-interested-in-orlando-nyc-roadshow/25137

 

Thanks! Too bad none of those locations is even remotely close to me. Way too much drama with Pimax in the past to not want to test drive it first. Or at least wait for some detailed DCS reviews from guys that have both.

[GunSlingerAUS]

From the reviews and impressions I've seen, of which there are many, Pimax is rubbish. If you want the sharpest image quality, the Reverb is the one. I have this, but found the asynchronous reprojection killed VR for me. Many don't have issues with it though.