Thrustmaster Warthog Mini stick and TDC axis

[JesseJames38]

Hello, I am wondering if anyone is having issues using the TDC Axis controls with the warthog mini stick and getting it to work in the Harrier.

 

 

The issue I am having is that when ever I use the Mini stick for the TDC it will some times move and most of the time not. Moving in the vertical plane is easer then the horizontal. in most cases for me to move horizontally I have to move vertically at the same time.

 

 

Is this just the case with the warthog mini stick, or is it just how I have it set up. So far this is the most annoying thing for me and this aircraft. It makes it almost imposable for me to use the TGP or any other item that requires the use of the mini stick

 

 

Any tips or tricks would help, as it is driving me mad.

 

 

Thanks

Jesse.

[Schmidtfire]

Known issue for years. I use a regular hatswitch now. My setup is Thrustmaster TWCS throttle and the mini-stick work fine in other modules.

[Captain Orso]

Yes, it's a known issue. No, the same issue is in other modules that use the TPOD. It appears to be a TPOD coding issue. ED is reworking the TPOD at the moments, so I hope it will get solved soon-ish.

[sirPecka]

I think it's more Harrier issue than general TPOD issue as I encountered it only in Harrier.

 

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[Captain Orso]

I haven't tested it in the Hornet yet, but I've already in the FA-18 forum that it does the same thing in the Hornet, and someone mentioned that Wags said something about it being an issue with the TPOD and that ED is working on a revamp of the TPOD right now, because it is now landing on the Harrier, Hornet, and Viper, so it's now worth while to give it an overhault.

[sirPecka]

That's weird, I'm not having issues in any other module while using TPOD, but it just might be there, but so subtle that I didn't even noticed it, while in the Harrier I prefer not to use TPOD at all because of that. But now I definitely need to test all theTPODs to see.

 

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[Captain Orso]

ED has reworked how the program their modules so that they are more modular. I think this is something that Heatblur actually developed. Ever since them ED it seems has been reworking some things that are shared between modules, like the TPOD and FLIR. It may be that they haven't harmonized the code yet to work the same everywhere and still be modular for different models. Making major software changes to a running software is a daunting task to say the least.

[sirPecka]

In that case it would be interesting to know if RAZBAM is using ED's code for LITENING or their own.

 

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[shagrat]

In that case it would be interesting to know if RAZBAM is using ED's code for LITENING or their own.

 

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Indeed! I am especially curious, as I could slew the TPOD and IR Maverick pretty much easily with the stick a couple days ago. I am not saying that you don't have issues, but I want to find the root cause for the different behaviour.

I have the Ministick Mod, but I had it already when the Hornet slew wasn't fixed and it there was no difference between the original Ministick and the Mod. Same with the Harrier. Slew was crap with original Ministick and the Mod, as well (ok, you have more control with the Mod, but the slew was still jumpy and imprecise as hell).

Now, last week while testing the TPOD and IR Mav it worked smooth and precise. In the Changelogs there was no mention of an update to the slew.

This is weird...

[sirPecka]

I've just run a very quick mission (air start, only TGP equipped) and I had no issues whatsoever with slewing in Hornet and Viper, but Harrier and Warthog both suffer with the same issue although it's much worse in the Harrier, so it's maybe new TGP coding vs old one?

 

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[shagrat]

I've just run a very quick mission (air start, only TGP equipped) and I had no issues whatsoever with slewing in Hornet and Viper, but Harrier and Warthog both suffer with the same issue although it's much worse in the Harrier, so it's maybe new TGP coding vs old one?

 

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Still does not explain why it works on mine, with the Harrier, as well. Give me a sec I'll check again, in the Harrier.

[Sarge55]

I have the same issue with the Harrier only. All the other modules that I own (and are installed), the TDC works fine.

[shagrat]

Ok, so I retested, again. TPOD training mission (short). Could slew pretty decent with all modes (slaved to DMT, TDC and HTS). DMT cursor is a bit jumpy, when in TDC, still TPOD MPCD view scrolls smooth, just a bit fast.

Tested IR Maverick in autonomous and DMT TV mode (training missions short) and the slew behaved the same as with the TPOD, though the Maverick tends to lock very late (at 7nm or less). It is damn hard to slew with TDC depressed, but it worked in both axis and apart from being difficult, while keeping the plane straight and watching the MPCD and trying to lock a tiny dot on the screen, it worked.

My settings: no axis tweaks all 0 (deadzone, curve) or 100 (x,y saturation), no special options selected, no additions, tweaks to the inputs in default.lua.

Any ideas what could be different or causing this difference?

[sirPecka]

Ok, the problem is axis tuning. If you don't tune your TDC slew axis, it works as intended. I've changed mine the same way Hornet has it by default (saturation Y: 30, curvature: 30) and it's unusable. But with everything set to default it works flawlessly, bit fast but the movement is uninterrupted.

 

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[Mezsh]

It does it in the Harrier quite a bit, but not all the time (I've been flying Harrier exclusively in DCS for 3 or 4 months now) but I've noticed it only mainly does it if your targeting system (whether DMT, FLIR or TPOD) are zoomed in quite far.

[rdibley]

Ok, the problem is axis tuning. If you don't tune your TDC slew axis, it works as intended. I've changed mine the same way Hornet has it by default (saturation Y: 30, curvature: 30) and it's unusable. But with everything set to default it works flawlessly, bit fast but the movement is uninterrupted.

 

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I'm seeing slightly different behavior, but I think you're onto something. I'm using a Virpil MongoosT-50, and without changing the defaults settings for TDC slew, it stops if you put in large TDC inputs in either axis. I've changed the slope of the curve in both axes to reduce the maximum value. This slows the slewing, but gets rid of the stopping issue when going to full microstick deflections in either axis. However, the problem still appears when I put in large diagonal inputs. Scaling back even further eventually eliminates the diagonal input issue, but then the slewing is way too slow.

 

 

To me, it seems like they're not handling the TDC analog inputs correctly, as if they're not applying limits to the inputs, or they're using a variable type that is too small and they're getting rollovers or something like that.

 

 

 

By the way, I'm seeing this issue with the Harrier DMT and TPOD, so it doesn't appear to be a TPOD only issue. Also, I have not had any issues with the F-18.

[shagrat]

Ok, the problem is axis tuning. If you don't tune your TDC slew axis, it works as intended. I've changed mine the same way Hornet has it by default (saturation Y: 30, curvature: 30) and it's unusable. But with everything set to default it works flawlessly, bit fast but the movement is uninterrupted.

 

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Verified on my side. If I tweak the axis it stutters etc.

Good find. :) :thumbs up:

Though, this is something Razbam should look at, as axis tuning can really help with the Warthog Ministick's physical deficiency.

[shagrat]

I'm seeing slightly different behavior, but I think you're onto something. I'm using a Virpil MongoosT-50, and without changing the defaults settings for TDC slew, it stops if you put in large TDC inputs in either axis. I've changed the slope of the curve in both axes to reduce the maximum value. This slows the slewing, but gets rid of the stopping issue when going to full microstick deflections in either axis. However, the problem still appears when I put in large diagonal inputs. Scaling back even further eventually eliminates the diagonal input issue, but then the slewing is way too slow.

 

 

To me, it seems like they're not handling the TDC analog inputs correctly, as if they're not applying limits to the inputs, or they're using a variable type that is too small and they're getting rollovers or something like that.

 

 

 

By the way, I'm seeing this issue with the Harrier DMT and TPOD, so it doesn't appear to be a TPOD only issue. Also, I have not had any issues with the F-18.

Seems the input is currently optimized specifically for the TM Warthog Ministick. I agree it sounds like the data is flooding a cache or the poll cycle for the axis has an issue if not exactly matching.

[sirPecka]

I only hope this thread will help RAZBAM pinpoint the exact issue so they can finally fix it.

 

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[Schmidtfire]

Here is my TGP slew comparison.

 

Harrier - Unusable with an axis.

 

Hornet and Viper. OK-ish. Not perfect, I get jitter and such. It is usable with axis but could be refined further. Hornet CCRP with axis slew jumps around a lot and is unprecise.

 

JF-17 TGP slew works smoother than the Hornet and Viper. Lots of options to be set for slew senistivity and speed.

 

A-10C - flawless experience. Best TGP implementation yet as far as slewing and stability goes.

[Richard Dastardly]

Feels like it's in point track & trying to lock all the time ( I'm not saying it is, that's what it feels like ). I have a perfectly smooth experience in the A10 using the joystick, I've not tried the stick for the Hornet TPOD ( I wasn't aware it even had analog bindings, actually ) but using a hat is a smooth experience as far as it goes.

 

I've also tried various curves for the ministick without any progress.

[sirPecka]

Here is my TGP slew comparison.

 

Harrier - Unusable with an axis.

 

Hornet and Viper. OK-ish. Not perfect, I get jitter and such. It is usable with axis but could be refined further. Hornet CCRP with axis slew jumps around a lot and is unprecise.

 

JF-17 TGP slew works smoother than the Hornet and Viper. Lots of options to be set for slew senistivity and speed.

 

A-10C - flawless experience. Best TGP implementation yet as far as slewing and stability goes.

As I said before, for me the slewing in Viper and Hornet (in JF-17 as well) is flawless, is only Harrier and Warthog that stutters. I've changed saturation Y and curvature, both to 30, which apparently causes the stutters in Harrier. I need to try setting both to 0 in Warthog and see. So far this seems to be the cause of issue. Did you tune you slew axis in Harrier?

 

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[Dehuman]

I was having the same problem with my TWCS stick.

Resetting the curve to default in DCS and instead having the curve and saturation (TM call it "zoom") set in TARGET has solved the problem and now it's perfect

Edited January 4, 2020 by Dehuman
Forgot to close the parentheses

[Cornelius]

This error was already reported ancient times ago (2.12.2017)

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=196933

 

And since then nothing happend. And while you're still thinking about where it came from and how to help, Zeus has long since explained that he hasn't gotten the TDC Axis Slew right yet.

 

Folks, TDC axis is a bit complex to code thanks to the many sensors the aircraft has. So please be patient.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Cornelius

[Fri13]

ED has reworked how the program their modules so that they are more modular. I think this is something that Heatblur actually developed. Ever since them ED it seems has been reworking some things that are shared between modules, like the TPOD and FLIR. It may be that they haven't harmonized the code yet to work the same everywhere and still be modular for different models. Making major software changes to a running software is a daunting task to say the least.

 

I don't know why ED didn't do from start a modular SDK, where you have all instruments and systems as own libraries where you simply feed the relevant data and it outputs correct result. Like example a speed indicator that receives data from pitot tube, and then pitot tube that receives air flow from environment.

 

Then when you want to make a module, you have most parts done by ED as you pick those from their library to your aircraft. And ED could have done all 3D objects too like VVI indicator etc that specific coalition shares among themselves.