Jump to content

Looking for help on improving my landings


lwalter
 Share

Recommended Posts

After watching several tutorial videos and practicing probably a good hundred times... I finally manage to land the Huey without breaking it.

 

I was almost going to give up, until I realised I had to forget anything I learnt from landing a jet and until I realised that for me, no curve at all was much easier to handle.

 

However, all is not great with my landings yet:

1) landing on runways or landing zones within a 20-30 meters radius is OK, but landing on building roofs or even large ship decks (like Tarawa) is still quite challenging (only 1 success out of 4)

2) Towards the end of the landing, I'm not really landing from a hover but with a very shallow descent and it usually ends with a few meters slide

3) If I'm slowing down too close to 0 kts, I'm unable to control the the Huey and it usually ends bad. I guess this is about being able to hover. When taking off, I'm not doing great at hovering but it's OK, nowhere near as bad.

 

What are your suggestions to overcome these remaining issues?

iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, i7 4 GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD R9 M395X 4 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog | Cougar MFD | MFG Crosswind | EDTracker Pro | Realteus ForceFeel

DCS World | Bf109 | Fw190 A8/D9 | P47 | P51 | Spitfire | I16 | C101 | L39 | F86F | MiG15 | MiG19 | MiG21 | FC3 | A10C | AJS37 | AV8BNA | F5 | F14 | F16 | F/A18 | M2000 | JF17 | Christen Eagle | Yak52 | SA342 | UH1H | Mi8 | Ka50 | Combined Arms | NS430 | Persian Gulf | Normandy | Channel | Syria | NTTR | WWII Assets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe not the answer you hope for, but practice, practice and more practice is the way to go. You already found out some really important insights yourself, it's not even close to flying a fixed wing and curves is no good.

You seem to be doing good so far, just keep at it.

Helicopters and Viggen

DCS 1.5.7 and OpenBeta

Win7 Pro 64bit

i7-3820 3.60GHz

P9X79 Pro

32GB

GTX 670 2GB

VG278H + a Dell

PFT Lynx

TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hover practice.

 

Yep , essential for spot landings .

9700k , Aorus Pro wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Hotas on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2

 

"Hold my beer"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your answers!

It looks like I should now practice (intensively) hovering.

Should I rather practice hovering close to the ground (looks like the one I need for landing) or even at higher altitude? The latter seems "impossible" to me at this stage...

In the manual I read that you had to move the cyclic 2 to 3 times a second continuously to keep the hover. Is that really the case? If yes, how can you find the right "rhythm"?

iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, i7 4 GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD R9 M395X 4 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog | Cougar MFD | MFG Crosswind | EDTracker Pro | Realteus ForceFeel

DCS World | Bf109 | Fw190 A8/D9 | P47 | P51 | Spitfire | I16 | C101 | L39 | F86F | MiG15 | MiG19 | MiG21 | FC3 | A10C | AJS37 | AV8BNA | F5 | F14 | F16 | F/A18 | M2000 | JF17 | Christen Eagle | Yak52 | SA342 | UH1H | Mi8 | Ka50 | Combined Arms | NS430 | Persian Gulf | Normandy | Channel | Syria | NTTR | WWII Assets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when you get good at balancing the huey the control inputs are more like nudges than full inputs.

the early mistake is to overcorrect and enter PIO (pilot induced oscillation) where you are chasing your own tail trying to balance your own inputs, rather than balancing the huey.

this is when you can hit a target the size of a football pitch :)

you need to make constant corrections. but only necessary corrections.

you figure out which is which by practising :)

removing the return spring from my warthog really helped me make nudges instead of PIO..

 

two concepts to get straight in your head are ground effect and translational lift.

both of these things provide lift and remove lift as you transition through a take off and work opposite in a landing. and they only effect helicopters not planes.

the bit you describe where you drop at the end is transitioning from translational lift.

as you enter a hover your rotor starts recycling air instead of cutting clean air in front of the moving huey.

so you lose lift and drop as its less efficient

the drop announces itself with the beating noise from the rotor at about 20mph.

you get the beat accelerating and slowing down as you cross 20mph.

 

when landing you should start lifting the collective when the airspeed reads 40mph. because if you wait for the beating sound and 20mph you are doing it late.

you will get rotor droop lifting the collective to quickly.

start lifting the collective at 40 mph slowly. and when you hear the beating noise concentrate on the collective and the vertical velocity meter to maintain your decent. (don't drop) and come to a stop.

pretty soon you will be able to smoothly pull the collective and come to a stop without falling out the sky. in ground effect or out of ground effect. (IGE or OGE)

 

you need to move the collective further and start earlier to come to a stop out of ground effect.

(a high hover in your example above)

a low hover gets free lift from ground effect. (under 50ft or the rotor diameter)

so when landing its a good idea to enter ground effect before slowing down below 40mph and losing translational lift. they balance each other some, and you need to move the collective the least.

so its easier to learn.

My Rig: i7 4930k 4.5Ghz, 16GB DDR3 2400, 2x SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the detailed advice Quadg!

I'm a bit afraid to remove the spring of my Warthog stick... but I have an extension, so it's not too hard to move around.

Looking at your other pieces of advice, I'm able now to land on a runway, a carrier like the Stennis or the Tarawa, and even some (large) building roofs. However, the back helipad of a Ticonderoga class.... still impossible for me. How would leverage the ground effect for such case? wouldn't it be below the deck?

iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, i7 4 GHz, 32 GB RAM, AMD R9 M395X 4 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog | Cougar MFD | MFG Crosswind | EDTracker Pro | Realteus ForceFeel

DCS World | Bf109 | Fw190 A8/D9 | P47 | P51 | Spitfire | I16 | C101 | L39 | F86F | MiG15 | MiG19 | MiG21 | FC3 | A10C | AJS37 | AV8BNA | F5 | F14 | F16 | F/A18 | M2000 | JF17 | Christen Eagle | Yak52 | SA342 | UH1H | Mi8 | Ka50 | Combined Arms | NS430 | Persian Gulf | Normandy | Channel | Syria | NTTR | WWII Assets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

need to work on getting into a hover above ground effect that will help. The DD or Cruiser should be steaming so its easier to land on you approach from astern match the speed then inch forward reducing you height till you set down.


Edited by RePhil

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Window 10, i9-9900,2080TI, 32GB ram Puma Pro Flight Trainer, 2 x 1TB WB SSD NVMe HP Reverb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your answers!

It looks like I should now practice (intensively) hovering.

Should I rather practice hovering close to the ground (looks like the one I need for landing) or even at higher altitude? The latter seems "impossible" to me at this stage...

In the manual I read that you had to move the cyclic 2 to 3 times a second continuously to keep the hover. Is that really the case? If yes, how can you find the right "rhythm"?

 

 

I found this hover tutorial from Furia really helpful when the Huey was released originally. If I remember right he's a heli coast guard pilot in Spain so knows what he's talking about. If you practice what he demonstrates in the video you'll be good at the fine adjustment controls needed around landing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the detailed advice Quadg!

I'm a bit afraid to remove the spring of my Warthog stick... but I have an extension, so it's not too hard to move around.

Looking at your other pieces of advice, I'm able now to land on a runway, a carrier like the Stennis or the Tarawa, and even some (large) building roofs. However, the back helipad of a Ticonderoga class.... still impossible for me. How would leverage the ground effect for such case? wouldn't it be below the deck?

 

the backs of stationary ships are like tall buildings.

over the water/street you will be OGE

over the ship/building you will be IGE

and the edge of the ship/building is the very sharp transition.

so you are better doing an OGE approach and coming to a OGE hover either behind or beside the ship.

and then you OGE hover taxi slowly over the side of the ship so you can handle the harsh transition to IGE, then you land.

but like I said before doing this OGE is the most stressful form of approach for both the pilot and helicopter :)

here is me doing the hard huey landing on the PG map as an example.

with the horrible cross wind I end up diagonally behind the frigate :)

this ship is moving so I don't lose translational lift. ( a bonus ships have over buildings, they can go as fast as they can to assist helicopter operations)

I only have to worry about OGE and IGE. and timing the waves.

 

 

my advice is to master the easier landings first.

spawn at a runway. take off, fly to the other end and land on the numbers, hover turn around, take off and land on the numbers at the other end. turn around and repeat.

a runway is long enough for you to get up to speed between landings and you can vary the altitude quite a bit. and the approach.

so you should not get bored.

and the lift into a hover and hover turn will help with mastering hover as well. try to stay on the centre line.

the runway also gives you a great visual refence for flying. so you can start judging speed and rate of decent by visual cues as well as the instruments. an essential skill.

 

getting closer and closer to the numbers each time builds confidence.

at first concentrate just on landing safely. somewhere near them.

you will start getting closer quickly.

you can do a lot of landings in a hour to force your muscle memory to learn in a short time.

My Rig: i7 4930k 4.5Ghz, 16GB DDR3 2400, 2x SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest challenge for me was managing OGE and IGE and avoiding a Vortex Ring State (VRS) (when the rotors' lift is disrupted. Early on I'd slow down too fast and too high and then just plummet into the ground.

 

Basically, if you are coming down for a landing and suddenly start dropping like a rock, lower your collective and tilt the nose forward to speed out of the disrupted column of air and regain control. Eventually, with experience, you'll learn to avoid entering a VRS altogether.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I ve recently got the rotor virus and struggling as all new comers.

 

What really helped me is reading you guys, reading the manual, Chuck guides and practicing with those missions and videos by Grizzly :

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?CREATED_BY=CHPL&set_filter=Y

 

 

Especially the mission for pattern work helped me understand better how to land.

 

And of course the Golden Rule... Practice.. Practice.. Practice...


Edited by dimkl
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

 

However, all is not great with my landings yet:

1) landing on runways or landing zones within a 20-30 meters radius is OK, but landing on building roofs or even large ship decks (like Tarawa) is still quite challenging (only 1 success out of 4)

2) Towards the end of the landing, I'm not really landing from a hover but with a very shallow descent and it usually ends with a few meters slide

3) If I'm slowing down too close to 0 kts, I'm unable to control the the Huey and it usually ends bad. I guess this is about being able to hover. When taking off, I'm not doing great at hovering but it's OK, nowhere near as bad.

This is a near exact description of where I am. I gave up on UH-1 because i figured my hard Warthog spring was a real hindrance (until finding a softer spring solution).

removing the return spring from my warthog really helped me make nudges instead of PIO..
I'd want to fly planes as well as helicopter. Warthog needs a bit of spring force, it can't be totally springless. Removing / reinstalling the spring all the time just isn't an option.

 

1) Is it possible to fly helicopter well with the original Warthog spring?

2) If I spring for Sahaj's "green spring", is that soft enough for helicopter use? Or does it need to be softer still?


Edited by -0303-

Intel Core i7 3630QM @ 2.40GHz (Max Turbo Frequency 3.40 GHz) | 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz | 2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 635M | 447GB KINGSTON SA400S37480G (SATA-2 (SSD))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I‘m using Sahaj‘s green spring and it‘s way better than the original ones. Was an easy swap and the original TM was way too hard for me flying the Huey. And if the green spring is still too stiff, you can use a 10cm extension additinally

Modules and maps: all of them :doh:

Specs: ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-I, Intel i7-8086K@4.9GHz, 32GB Corsair Vengance RAM, Nvidia RTX 2080 FE, 2x1 TB Samsung EVO 970 M.2, WIN10 64bit, HP Reverb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...